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Max_Caine

How attached are you/do you think you'll be to your squaddies in X2?

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I've seen people on various parts of the forum talk about their attachment to their squaddies. Personally, I've never really understood it. You see, I don't think there's a lot to get attached to. X2 squaddies are not like FiraXcom or UFO:AfterX squaddies. They don't have skills and superpowers which become indispensible mid to late game. The rate of stat improvement is generally pretty quick and even though stat caps are randomised the caps aren't randomised so much that you're going to have a crappy soldier if you put the squaddie through lots of battles. They're also really easy to get. By mid Feb into March game-time, I usually have a rotating roster of around 40 squaddies with whoever isn't currently injured in the Skyhawk ready to go. So... honestly? I don't feel a lot when a squaddie bites the dust. I only really feel it if it's part of a series of unfortunate events which threatens the mission, or if it's something cheap like, if I've just tried shooting at an alien one tile away and I've missed three times in a row. But that's just me. Are you attached to your squaddies? Will you be attached to your squaddies? Or are you a cold-hearted chap like myself who treats them like so many meat pawns? (Mmm... pawns...)

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Posted (edited)

Well, most of the soldiers in the game whom you can hire have bad stats. So if you want to get a really powerfull squad you have to select wisely and hire 2 or 3 from 10 each time so it takes time (around 3 months in game)  to create a squad with only best soldiers. Wasting best soldiers is painful cause it will drop perfomance of the squad so yes I do care about my squad as I want to achieve maximum performance

Edited by Rusknight

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Posted (edited)

Runsknight that´s right. Your Soldiers are Anti-Alien-Specialists. It dosen´t belong to me how good their stats are, they all get trained to the Maximum they can have. And 2 Bases with Soldiers / Vehicles are enough. So I have about 20 Soldiers and 4 Vehicles. Normaly that´s enough for a full Gamethrough if you watch for them. And you need 20 good Soldiers, because if you only have low-level Soldiers (Trainies and Crew-Ranks) you won´t win. The other disadvantage to have to many low Level Soldiers are you loose more Money and nessecarry Upgrades / Bases are impossible.

More only in emergency, because every soldier more will reduce your Cash for R & D as well as Basebuilding / Baseupgrades / other Upgrades.

Edited by Alienkiller

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I agree with the two above. Losing higher level soldiers can seriously crimp the squad's effectiveness. Early in the game it's worse when that one or two experienced people can deliver on target while the others are missing adjacent aliens than it is after you have squads full of Lts or higher.

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Theres a reason I love to change soldier stats using modding. If theres no difference between a rookie and a comando, then I won't get attached to my soldiers

I enjoy using them as mere machines rather than dealing with their "humaness"

Besides, these soldiers are supposed to be spec ops, so experience shouldn't matter anymore.

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Even in Spec Ops experience counts.

Considering how difficult it is to keep the funding from the governments up, why would you think they would send the best of the best? But whatever your immersion is, you do you.

Personally, I prefer the challenge of keeping my troops alive while working up their quality. It's not like I'm going to lose sleep over the demise of a pixel warrior, but I do pause a moment when someone who has lots of kills and trait increases bites it.

Have you seen how stupid the local troops on the battle map seem to be? Yours definitely start better. :cool:

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I for one like to rename my troopers, with the names of my mates, and friends which does give them a personal touch, and you can have a connection with these virtual people.

For others this will not be important, but it is nice to have the option.

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From my experience I like it when it means at least something, but I don't like it if I feel like I cannot lose people.

For example x-com has it pretty good. You can get good soldiers and it can be beneficial to send in the rookies first into dangerous places but if the good ones die it's not game ending.

In UFO:Afterlight you have very limited soldiers and losing anyone because things started going badly pretty much requires a reload. I really don't like that and it hurts the game enough that I stopped playing it despite playing through both aftershock and aftermath.

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I'm not a bad person, but I hope my team die frecuently and I still may be able to beat the game. Winning (with some deaths) 70% of missions should be enough to beat the game, at least in normal difficulty. The other 30% of lost missions could be dissaster were you retreat or one or two soldiers survive.

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I am definitely attached to my squad. I too name them after my friends and family. Sometimes I just name cannon fodders after the people I despise and I sent them to their death in dangerous missions :) 

But yes, I am definitely more into role playing part of the game. I would like to see my crew growing with every battle. Getting battle scars, getting for example anxiety of aliens if they are surrounded by them in a mission. Or get a tough soldier trait like 'lone survivor' if only they made it to the end. 

This RPG part of the game would make me immensely happy. 

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I’m certainly the odd one out here where most of my playthroughs have only one squad of soldiers and 2 vehicles. Maybe it’s just me getting too lucky with loosing my personnel so every time some of my soldiers die it’s always a huge blow for me.

I think it can be made better by giving your soldiers more personality that involves in a game like starting and gaining traits similar to Darkest Dungeon do it with Virtues and Afflictions. Maybe rather than just something like stress causing it, Battle Scars may comes from huge mortal wounds that brought your soldiers close to death or seeing a bunch of his squad mates killed. While Expertise on the other hand can come from incredible feats that your soldiers accomplished like Demolisher for killing more than 3 aliens with explosives or Arsonist for killing an enemy by burning a building down. Combined it with starting traits and nationalities for special soldiers you can recruit will make it extremely dramatic for loosing a single soldier and by the end your team will comprised of tough, experienced veterans ready for any challenges.

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@Xeroxth: You can use an Vehicle in Xenonauts 2, but that costs an Soldier-Place in the Transport. And you are reduced to 1 Vehicle, because it needs the full concentration of the Pilot and Co-Pilot.

So you have to watch for your Soldiers. Esp. when you don´t have good Protection. Your Starting Equipment is an Standard-Suit and the Cevlar-Vest. The Standard-Suit dosen´t give Protection it´s more an Clothes for your Soldier not be naked. The Cevlar-Vest / Warden Vest (an upgraded Cevlar Vest) gives you 1 full protection hit from the Alien-Accleration-Weapon (Pistol, Rifle and a lucky MG-Shot). After that you only have your Suit as protection.

So Cover from Buildungs etc., Cover from your Armored Vehicle, Kneeing and Overwatch from the Comrades are the best Cover you have until you get very good Protection Suits.

 

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Posted (edited)

In X-Com, someone will get enough psionic power to be indispensable. Usually too indispensable to leave the ship, while everyone else just goes out scouting. Maybe stats can get high enough to be overpowered in other areas, but I've just never been that lucky. Squaddies are nothing but cannon fodder to me, completely fungible, we've got reserves.

XCOM makes me care a bit more, but rarely because of the stories they generate. It's hard to lose your highest ranking officer simply because so much progression is tied to their promotions. Occasionally someone will stand out, they'll survive an impossible situation or get 6+ kills in a turn, then I'll give them a funny hat, but their death has always been more meaningful in terms of their replacement. In XCOM 2, that replacement is usually pretty good themselves so I care even less.

That said, War of the Chosen's hero faction units I do care about losing. They don't matter as much to the progression system, but I only have one in their line. Training a replacement reaper is hard compared to the standard classes.

Xenonauts... They're not as expendable as X-Com rookies, stats can make up for tech in the early game and so keeping people alive matters more. At some point, someone will get lucky enough to reach 100TUs, get a shotgun shoved into their hands, and turn into my ace in the hole. Those guys feel bad to lose. The game isn't significantly harder without them, but they're so much more fun than they flimsy guy shoved into the power armor and handed the biggest gun on the base.

I don't think X2 will really change anything. Soldiers just don't have unique traits so losing one won't be so bad.

Edited by ApolloZani

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@ApolloZani In the old X-Com / new XCOM-Series you are right. There you have Psionics which is helpful against the Aliens. In the new XCOM-Series you need it too to destroy the Alien-Mothership and safe the Earth for short a second time, as well as 30 years later a third time. But that´s an other Story.

Good back to Xenonauts and Xenonauts 2:

In the old Xeonauts Game you are right. There is no limitation for the Soldier-Stats. This will change in Xenonauts 2 fully. If you know the older X-Com Games (esp. Enemy Unknown / Terror from the Deep and Apocalypse) there are Maximums for the Stats [Accuracy, HP´s and so on].

That is integrated in Xenonauts 2. And you get a mix of Soldiers, some have good HP´s, others better accuracy, others more Weight to Carry and so on. That interesting Part of Xenonauts 2 is that your Soldiers have a limited Potential for every Stat [Weight, Lifepoints, Accuracy, etc.] they can train to Maximimun in the Training Facility and on Missions.

So you have to decide what Art of Armor a Soldier should carry, what extra equipment you will bring on the Armor, what her / his advantages and disadvantages and so on in her / his normal Soldierfunction.

What we don´t know is: Are we getting only defenses against PSI-Attacks from the Aliens (yes, they are fighting with that too!) like in UFO Extraterestials or the Soldiers get PSI-Traingings like in the old X-Com / new X-COM-Series as well as the UFO-After-Series.

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1 hour ago, Alienkiller said:

your Soldiers have a limited Potential for every Stat [Weight, Lifepoints, Accuracy, etc.]

My understanding is that the stat limits will be unique to each soldier. I think this will make them easier to get attached to. In X1, the global limit was 100 for each stat and that applied to everyone, IIRC. With that, there was little to get attached to; if all your dudes are 80+ accuracy then they are all sharp shooters. So whoever starts off as the sniper later becomes less distinguishable from anyone else in the squad.

In XCOM it is easier to get attached because the randomised perk system can make for some interesting permutations. In every playthrough you sift through to find the solider who can make multiple kills per turn, so you end up relying on them in particular and they become your favourite. Without perks, the only characteristics of your soldiers are their stats. Stats are generic. You might lean toward giving the high accuracy trooper a sniper, but then high accuracy with any gun is beneficial. So whilst you might favour your dead eye, they don't really get to fulfill a role in the same way, so there is less room for attachment. 

On the other hand, if there are soldier-specific caps on stats, then the capabilities of each soldier are less generic. Your hulk soldier who can carry the heavy weapons will be differentiated from your regular strength soldiers who can't run around with a spare primary weapon in their backpack. With that uniqueness, you'll be sorry when your hulk buys the farm.

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On 6/21/2020 at 7:23 AM, gimli said:

I am definitely attached to my squad. I too name them after my friends and family. Sometimes I just name cannon fodders after the people I despise and I sent them to their death in dangerous missions :)

But yes, I am definitely more into role playing part of the game. I would like to see my crew growing with every battle. Getting battle scars, getting for example anxiety of aliens if they are surrounded by them in a mission. Or get a tough soldier trait like 'lone survivor' if only they made it to the end. 

This RPG part of the game would make me immensely happy. 

I wonder if you would like UFO:Afterlight. It has a lot of what you like.

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Yeah Afterlight had a a proper bio for each of the characters and all those bios tied in together. It didn't just feel like a little touch the devs put in there for fun, rather, it was a full part of the game that you were steering a community of survivors.

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Any one who has served in the Military, will know that it is about your buddies that you serve with, so having stats and info on your team, and the connection that that brings, it adds another dimension to the game.

The game becomes much more immersive, and each loss and win adds to the Esprit de Corps of the unit.

The would more rounded!!

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On 7/16/2020 at 7:33 PM, ApolloZani said:

At some point, someone will get lucky enough to reach 100TUs, get a shotgun shoved into their hands, and turn into my ace in the hole. Those guys feel bad to lose. The game isn't significantly harder without them, but they're so much more fun than they flimsy guy shoved into the power armor and handed the biggest gun on the base.

I can very much relate to this. Especially during my one playthrough where I decided to have everyone using only shotguns and grenades. My god it’s so satisfying to collapse an entire building with plasma grenades then moving in and giving any survivors a solid mag slug to the head. The flying enemies can be a bit annoying but due to their wandering AIs, you can just wait until they land somewhere reachable and kill them with one shot.

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Exactly Ruggerman. I was in the Military too and know what you mean.

For all others who dosen´t worked for their Country shortly said: The Team belongs on the Team Members, esp. the weakest.

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It's great to see so many people lie firmly on the side of that they will miss any soldiers who die. For me? I'm from the Gendo Ikari school of thought. They're STILL only so many meat puppets. At the end of the day, there's nothing that one soldier can do that I won't be able replicate with enough technology, especially when you advance into exosuits and other gear that grant stat boosts. I mean, I can see it now when modding is a Real Thing and not just people like me fiddling about with data files - you'll have modular gear that will offer every stat boost under the sun and then your squaddies really will be replaceable drones where the gear you put on them is more valuable than the soliders' life. 

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