Research Tree Structure Discussion

[raziel1981]

Autopsies:

I understand that in the final game this will be restored to the previous state. Otherwise, this makes the research of autopsies completely pointless and I really hated "Alien entertainment" and such projects that caused me to invest my resources in moot research projects.

Alenium weapons unlimited:

See Max Caine's suggested solution +1

Dreadnought:

I really regret this call. I would rather prefar having such UFOs in the game.

Interceptor image:

I prefar the current Marauder art as it seems more alienish and more fitting for the end game fighters/interceptors.

Technology tiers: Agree with a333 - was one of the bigger appeals of xcom. Even older tier weapons had their uses against the right enemy.

[Hairyscreech]

Autopsies: Yeah that's fine just smooths things along.

Alenium: well if the stuff is supposed to be energy dense enough for so little per ship to be enough to travel to earth with a chink left over then how much is realistically going to be needed to make a bang big enough to knock out a ship?

If it is like nuclear fuel vs tnt and its the next step up then we are talking grams.

Interceptor: Has to be the Saracen art, the other just looks a bit too conventional earth tech.

ETA - The Mrs has spoken and thus Saracen it is!

Edited April 3, 2013 by Hairyscreech

[Assoonasitis]

Autopsies: Yeah that's fine just smooths things along.

Alenium: well if the stuff is supposed to be energy dense enough for so little per ship to be enough to travel to earth with a chink left over then how much is realistically going to be needed to make a bang big enough to knock out a ship?

If it is like nuclear fuel vs tnt and its the next step up then we are talking grams.

Interceptor: Has to be the Saracen art, the other just looks a bit too conventional earth tech.

Also the Marauder looks like a silly flying anchor.

[Schnittertm]

Speaking of, which document (if any) would one edit if one wanted to change the call-names of his fighters and/ or transports?

Well, if you want to change say a F-17 Condor to a MLP Fluttershy then you'd have to do this first in the strings.xml. Seek out all entries with condor in them and change the second line, as the first line is a descriptor and if you change that you'll lose the linkage for that entry. Further instructions in the spoiler.

You'd start with this:

   <Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">F-17 Condor</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">F-17 Condor</Data></Cell>  </Row>

and you'd have to change it to this:

   <Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">F-17 Condor</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">MLP Fluttershy</Data></Cell>  </Row> 

You have to be aware, however, that there are several entries for most items, which is why you have to seek out all entries, as specified above. The different entries are used for different subscreens (e.g. Aircraft Equipment Screen, Research, Workshop, Interception Aircraft Selection Window, etc.)

If you also want to purge all entries of this string in the Xenopedia, you'll have to do something similar for it, too.

 <Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0" ss:Height="171.75">   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">airplane.human.f17</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">F-17 Condor</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">xenopediaimages/f17</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">Xenonauts Aircraft</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">AC</Data></Cell>   <Cell ss:StyleID="s70"><Data ss:Type="String"> 

The First line is not to be changed, as is the last, they are used for linking up the date to the Xenopediawindow in game.

The third line F-17 Condor would, to use the above example, have to be changed to 'MLP Fluttershy'

The fourth line denotes the location of the picture and its name. In this case it is in the xenopediaimages folder and the image is called f17. If you wish you can also eradicate this picture by using a different one, that you either rename to f17 or you just change the name in the header entry. If you have a Fluttershy.jpg you'd have to change the entry to xenopediaimages/Fluttershy, naturally after you've put the picture in the xenopediaimages folder.

The fifth line denotes the category under which you'll find the entry in the xenopedia. So if you want to have a new category, called 'My little Pony Friendship is Magic', you'll just exchange that for 'Xenonauts Aircraft'

You'd end up with a header looking like this:

 <Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0" ss:Height="171.75">   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">airplane.human.f17</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">MLP Fluttershy</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">xenopediaimages/Fluttershy</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">My little Pony Friendship is Magic</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">AC</Data></Cell>   <Cell ss:StyleID="s70"><Data ss:Type="String">

Naturally, I'll have to advise you that it is good practice to backup your original strings.xml and xenopedia.xml before making any changes.

Okay, and now onto the topic. It is hard for me to decide between the Saracen and the Marauder picture, I quite like both of them in their own way, but I'd go with the Marauder picture, as I like the in my opinion darker and more menacing look of it.

[Assoonasitis]

Well, if you want to change say a F-17 Condor to a MLP Fluttershy then you'd have to do this first in the strings.xml. Seek out all entries with condor in them and change the second line, as the first line is a descriptor and if you change that you'll lose the linkage for that entry. Further instructions in the spoiler.

You'd start with this:

   <Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">F-17 Condor</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">F-17 Condor</Data></Cell>  </Row>

and you'd have to change it to this:

   <Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">F-17 Condor</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">MLP Fluttershy</Data></Cell>  </Row> 

You have to be aware, however, that there are several entries for most items, which is why you have to seek out all entries, as specified above. The different entries are used for different subscreens (e.g. Aircraft Equipment Screen, Research, Workshop, Interception Aircraft Selection Window, etc.)

If you also want to purge all entries of this string in the Xenopedia, you'll have to do something similar for it, too.

 <Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0" ss:Height="171.75">   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">airplane.human.f17</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">F-17 Condor</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">xenopediaimages/f17</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">Xenonauts Aircraft</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">AC</Data></Cell>   <Cell ss:StyleID="s70"><Data ss:Type="String"> 

The First line is not to be changed, as is the last, they are used for linking up the date to the Xenopediawindow in game.

The third line F-17 Condor would, to use the above example, have to be changed to 'MLP Fluttershy'

The fourth line denotes the location of the picture and its name. In this case it is in the xenopediaimages folder and the image is called f17. If you wish you can also eradicate this picture by using a different one, that you either rename to f17 or you just change the name in the header entry. If you have a Fluttershy.jpg you'd have to change the entry to xenopediaimages/Fluttershy, naturally after you've put the picture in the xenopediaimages folder.

The fifth line denotes the category under which you'll find the entry in the xenopedia. So if you want to have a new category, called 'My little Pony Friendship is Magic', you'll just exchange that for 'Xenonauts Aircraft'

You'd end up with a header looking like this:

 <Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0" ss:Height="171.75">   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">airplane.human.f17</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">MLP Fluttershy</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">xenopediaimages/Fluttershy</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">My little Pony Friendship is Magic</Data></Cell>   <Cell><Data ss:Type="String">AC</Data></Cell>   <Cell ss:StyleID="s70"><Data ss:Type="String">

Naturally, I'll have to advise you that it is good practice to backup your original strings.xml and xenopedia.xml before making any changes.

Okay, and now onto the topic. It is hard for me to decide between the Saracen and the Marauder picture, I quite like both of them in their own way, but I'd go with the Marauder picture, as I like the in my opinion darker and more menacing look of it.

Thank you kindly, sir. Now I can have a squadron of Ironclad fighters flying around keeping the skies friendly.

Edit: NOPE.

Doubledit: NEVER EVEN MIND.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Assoonasitis

[erutan]

I'd second having a high alenium cost for researching weapon tech that you get unlimited ammo out of. It'd fit with the emerging lore and make researching them more of a decision.

[Schnittertm]

Thank you kindly, sir. Now I can have a squadron of Ironclad fighters flying around keeping the skies friendly.

Now to figure out how to change it so that my Valkyrie transports get Valkyrie names instead of just numbers. "Transport 'Hrist' has entered the landing area. Troops are being deployed. Suppress the alien threat at all costs."

I did not yet have Valkyries, haven't played that far, but it should work that same as with any aircraft. Go to the aircraft screen, look to the Aircraft Selector window on the right, select Dropships there, then look left and under the callsign of the Dropship is a little thingy that looks like an internet link called CHANGE THE EFFIN' CALLSIGN, YOU BLIND PERSON YOU, well, okay, maybe it is just called Change Callsign. Click that, enter the name and I believe you'll be one happy camper.

[Assoonasitis]

I did not yet have Valkyries, haven't played that far, but it should work that same as with any aircraft. Go to the aircraft screen, look to the Aircraft Selector window on the right, select Dropships there, then look left and under the callsign of the Dropship is a little thingy that looks like an internet link called CHANGE THE EFFIN' CALLSIGN, YOU BLIND PERSON YOU, well, okay, maybe it is just called Change Callsign. Click that, enter the name and I believe you'll be one happy camper.

I will admit that I have not played as much of this game as I should've.

[GizmoGomez]

That escalated quickly.

[Jean-Luc]

Chris, could you package all the unused art in some folder somewhere so it can be used for modding purposes?

[thothkins]

Autopsies

I thought the prospect of a 10% bonus was a good positive step in making the autopsies worth researching. But to then have Vivisections on top of that seemed a little much. Having the autopsy automatic and then having further analysis available keeps it compact. Arguably the automatic autopsy would be a necessary step before vivisection analysis could commence. Also, in EU1994 you'd often get multiple automatic research dumps by capturing aliens.

Alenium weapons unlimited

Having the Alenium Missile/Torpedo "bug" made me appreciate just how fiddly constructing much needed missiles for every combat would be. Particularly with Workshop time being at such a premium. Good back story ideas to explain too.

Dreadnought

Hard to miss what I've not seen. More UFOs equals better to a point, but it depends on what it's role in the alien invasion was supposed to be. If it's a Battleship on steroids, and you don't encounter the Battleship until late on, does it have a place? Having it in orbit sounds good, in that it won't be wasted, but then I don't have any info about the late game missions to really get a feel for that either.

Interceptor image

The marauder is nice, but the Saracen is particularly stylish, so gets my vote. Again, not spent that much time at that part of the game to be able to tell if there's an interceptor type hole there. It doesn't look like it considering the options that would still be available.

[Chris]

Schnittertm - strings.xml is an Excel spreadsheet. Open in in Excel, it's about 100 million times easier to use if you do that.

[Schnittertm]

Schnittertm - strings.xml is an Excel spreadsheet. Open in in Excel, it's about 100 million times easier to use if you do that.

Sorry, don't have Excel at home. However Vim does a nice job of helping me.

[Beardage]

Perhaps with the Alienium instead of having to collect two types of alienium, perhaps just having to research a synthetic/low-grade alienium production to keep the unlimited supply of alienium missiles feasable instead of having to loot two types.

[GizmoGomez]

I really like the idea of synthesizing an alenium substitute, or a lower grade. It is possible, if it is an element and we have a decent enough accelerator.

[Gauddlike]

I should ask, how the different weapon tiers will be varied from each other? Different tiers can have some distinguishable features, which will justify the using of lower-tier weapons, making the game even more varied. One of the instruments allowing to do this was autopsies, revealing enemy weaknesses to the special effects and weapon types. Old x-com had the potential to do so, though undeveloped and mostly in the form of immunities to the flame weapons, which was underused anyway.

Tendency that is now clearly seen in the aircraft weapons, tendency of just giving the player same-but-more-powerful-gun just isn't appealing to me much. Upgrade weapon power. Armor level III. Brr.

May be i'm wrong and this is actually better decision. But i have the rights not to like it. As you have the rights to do it anyway.

Different enemies do have the potential for different weaknesses although that was not really linked to the autopsy research.

The same information and strengths/weaknesses will still be present you just won't be able to research the flat 5% (or other number) damage increase that was present before.

There is some variation between the weapons available at different tiers although the majority are straight upgrades of previous tiers.

Older weapons will be a little too weak to be the backbone of your squad but the armour reduction mechanic means you will still be able to wear the enemy down with them.

[a333]

Also the Marauder looks like a silly flying anchor.

ehh, too bad that its xenopedia art is much better than that of the Saracen, which even has one wing longer than another.

Different enemies do have the potential for different weaknesses although that was not really linked to the autopsy research.

The same information and strengths/weaknesses will still be present you just won't be able to research the flat 5% (or other number) damage increase that was present before.

And how could i learn that this aliens have a weakness to laser weapons? I mean, besides shooting on them, especially if this is some kind of a late-game terminator?

Your words means weaknesses will never be balanced in a way when you would want to bring at least one laser rifle to the late battle, because that will be profitable.

Older weapons will be a little too weak to be the backbone of your squad

What i wanted is so the older weapons would not turn to pumpkins, but became a niche tools which can do some task better than their high-tier analogs. So it's will be reasonably to use them at least for a little while.

Edited April 4, 2013 by a333

[Gauddlike]

ehh, too bad that its xenopedia art is much better than that of the Saracen, which even has one wing longer than another.

Yeah I agree the Marauder Xenopedia image is better, still prefer the design of the Saracen though.

And how could i learn that this aliens have a weakness to laser weapons? I mean, besides shooting on them, especially if this is some kind of a late-game terminator?

Your words means weaknesses will never be balanced in a way when you would want to bring at least one laser rifle to the late battle, because that will be profitable.

You could learn about them in exactly the same way you would have done before the change surely?

Read the Xenopedia results from the autopsy (assuming that information was ever going to be presented to the player, dev decision).

The only difference is that you no longer have to manually run the research, the information presented to the player is unchanged.

The previous damage bonus (that will be missing) was a flat increase.

For example 5% to all damage, from all weapon types, which would not have changed the balance between the tiers.

I am unsure how you think my statement that 'the same information and strength/weaknesses will still be present' means something has changed that will adversely affect the balance of the game.

The change is removal of the manual initiation of the research project, not removal or alteration of the resistance system.

What i wanted is so the older weapons would not turn to pumpkins, but became a niche tools which can do some task better than their high-tier analogs. So it's will be reasonably to use them at least for a little while.

That is not really the way the devs want the game to work though.

Chris has stated that he prefers the tier system to provide upgrades that are clearly better rather than just situational upgrades.

I am sure a mod will be in the works shortly after release to alter that balance though.

[Chris]

Why should we need to synthesise any kind of substitute? What's wrong with just collecting low-grade shards in unlimited quantities from crashed UFOs? Seems a much cleaner solution to me.

No, I think the various tiers of weapons will be better than the preceding ones in all situations. I sort of see what you're saying about wanting different types of weapon to use against different aliens, but as we're providing more variation within the tiers than other games I think that will be sufficient.

The Xenopedia art for the both the Saracen and the Marauder is being redone. Although I might not bother with having the Marauder art redone, as it doesn't seem anywhere near as popular as the Saracen.

[a333]

Okay, thanks for the answer. I'll try to make a mod, though. This would be the best experiment to prove or disprove my point.

[Beardage]

Why should we need to synthesise any kind of substitute? What's wrong with just collecting low-grade shards in unlimited quantities from crashed UFOs? Seems a much cleaner solution to me.

Was just a thought really, because it would be safe to assume that mankind would try to reproduce this wonder material in mass production rather than scavenge it, but they can never get it as good as the real thing. Don't get me wrong I really like the idea of low grade alienium for the taking, gives a lot more depth to the loot and the science in the game. The logic behind my idea was it would'nt lead to over complicating your resource management later in the game. Some players might get a bit overwhelmed.

*prepares for stones to fly*

[TrashMan]

No, there wouldn't be space in the Air Combat UI for two cannons and anything else, as a cannon takes up the space of two missile slots.

Wouldn't a simple fix be to have one cannon icon but two ammo counters? (one in ech corner of the icon)

Regarding the other stuff - not thrilled.

It feel like it chepans stuff that shouldn't be cheapened.

It's not like breaking apart alien spaceship is something one does willy-nilly.

I always thought that the very act of brekaing it apart safely should be a research project (thus no allenium or any UFO items before you research that)

IMHO, UFO:AI has the best mechanism. Hightly relaistic, and forcing hard choices (since workshops are the one breaking the UFO's for material and parts)

Autposises pointless? Only if you make em that. Why not make autposies yield usefull stuff.

Like finding what aliens breathe (stun gas), their resistances (stun rod), psychology (poison), or many other things that could come from studying alien biology. Like artificial muscle fiber (for power armor). Biological boosts. Heck, the sky is the limit.

As for allenium missiles - if you MUST have loads of them then something is wrong balance-wise. Aren't there any upgraded canons? How many missiles would you need? Maybe reduce cost and production time (after all, if only the warhead is different, and it basicly uses the body of the regular missiles, then it should be simple)

Edited April 4, 2013 by TrashMan

[TrashMan]

Okay, thanks for the answer. I'll try to make a mod, though. This would be the best experiment to prove or disprove my point.

I'll be the first to play it. I never was a fan of "X+1 is better than X in EVERY way, evne illogical ones"

[Assoonasitis]

Wouldn't a simple fix be to have one cannon icon but two ammo counters? (one in ech corner of the icon)

Regarding the other stuff - not thrilled.

It feel like it chepans stuff that shouldn't be cheapened.

It's not like breaking apart alien spaceship is something one does willy-nilly.

I always thought that the very act of brekaing it apart safely should be a research project (thus no allenium or any UFO items before you research that)

IMHO, UFO:AI has the best mechanism. Hightly relaistic, and forcing hard choices (since workshops are the one breaking the UFO's for material and parts)

Autposises pointless? Only if you make em that. Why not make autposies yield usefull stuff.

Like finding what aliens breathe (stun gas), their resistances (stun rod), psychology (poison), or many other things that could come from studying alien biology. Like artificial muscle fiber (for power armor). Biological boosts. Heck, the sky is the limit.

As for allenium missiles - if you MUST have loads of them then something is wrong balance-wise. Aren't there any upgraded canons? How many missiles would you need? Maybe reduce cost and production time (after all, if only the warhead is different, and it basicly uses the body of the regular missiles, then it should be simple)

Even if you got something useful from autopsies the fact is that there is almost always something better to research than a corpse. This isn't like X-COM or TFTD where your labs had space for 50 scientists; you only get space for 15 per lab and they're pretty prohibitively expensive to build, especially early on.

[TrashMan]

Define "better"

Better for wat? Whom?

If I'm racing to capture live aliens, stun gas would be better than a new rifle.

If aritificial muscle increases the STR of all my troops, it might be more worth it than a new interceptor.

Autposies begin prequisites form something else and yielding items automaticly makes them valubale. That of course doesn't mean that all things are equally valubale and that there won't be optimal research strategies more or less.

There ALWAYS are.

Or do you really think that is any item/tech is deemed the weakest, that it won't be left last to research by most players?

Removing uposises won't remove that.