Milestone 4 Balance & Feedback thead!

[TrashMan]

22 hours ago, gG-Unknown said:

 

Damage should falls of with range, agree.

Therefore, Lasers are short range weapons.

At normal infantry engagement ranges laser diffusion/diffraction shouldn't be a big issue. That said, at high altitude because of thinner atmosphere/less dense air laser would be more effective... but so would the distances.

[Twigg]

On 8/15/2024 at 3:51 AM, Komandos said:

To increase the difficulty, we have already tried to increase the accuracy of the aliens, increase the armor of the aliens and other characteristics of the aliens. But players complained that the aliens were getting too strong, and in the new versions of the game, the aliens were weakened again.

How else can you increase the power of aliens without increasing their characteristics? Only by increasing the number of aliens.

What I want is for new enemies/scenarios to force me to play differently, that is where the difficulty should come from. Too much of this game is a steady ramp of damage/hp/defense where it feels more like a 'Keeping up with the Joneses' situation than a terrifying secret alien invasion. One of the things the Firaxis games did so well is they would throw something insane at you every so often that not only forced you reassess how you played the game but (more importantly imo) terrified you as a player and reminded you that you are facing this unknowable entity.

 

In a nutshell I want the game to give me more strategic and tactical options (and no upgrading to a gun that pew pews better is not a new option) and then force me to use these options in new ways to deal with growing threats. The game already does this well with the early cleaner missions and how they differ from early alien missions but it is gone within a 100 days and I am back to turning off my brain and playing the game on autopilot imo.

[domatrix]

I really enjoy playing Xenonauts 2. First I played Milestone 1 and currently Milestone 4. A lot has changed since then. I always wanted to play Xenonauts 1 longer, but it never really grabbed me. Xenonauts 2 is very successful and above all the attention to detail is remarkable (see screenshot).

I agree that there should be some balance changes, such as the cost of certain base items or armor power, which often seems too weak.

For me as a casual player, the short duration of the game is very regrettable. I like to play a certain game over a longer period of time instead of countless games. I don't want an endless game, but a mode that can be optionally activated, for example, that brings the game forward after reaching certain progress and not according to the number of days that have passed. The first big advance could be the destruction of the cleaner base, for example. If this base is not destroyed, however, more UFOs and attacks will randomly appear.

Hence my suggestion:

• 1.                  In the difficulty settings, a checkbox with "endless game" or "stages instead of day-based". Which can be selected regardless of the level of difficulty.

• 2.                  If "Endless Game" or "Stages instead of day-based" is active, the number of days that have elapsed is no longer decisive, but the defense and panic level are still decisive.

• 3.                  The individual stages are triggered by certain events, such as the destruction of a base in the main quest or the exploration of a certain project.

• 4.                  This would be similar to XCOM from the 90s. However, since it is optional, it should not be relevant for players who find everything too easy.

• 5.                  The periods between the stages are then filled with random events such as alien attacks, rest periods, abductions, etc. So that resources and experience can be gained.

I know this sounds very simple, but it can probably be very difficult to implement. Depending on how strongly the events are predetermined.

If this can't be planned as an option, then maybe as a future mod?

Mod support and appropriate documentation would be very desirable.

[Murb]

On 8/12/2024 at 11:32 AM, Skitso said:

I agree the game starts to get too easy when you get the final landing ship and 16 units. Even 12 is a lot. I'm not sure I want to have dynamic alien numbers @Xeferah proposed above, but larger UFOs certainly need a lot more aliens to keep the challenge levels high enough. I think part of the issue is that the game doesn't require me to adapt and learn new tactics to survive. I can keep playing almost exactly the same way from mission one to all the way through the game. This not only makes the game too easy, but unfortunately also too repetitive and - dare I say - a tad boring going through the mid-game.

Enemies are the same, they use same AI routines, tactics and weapons (only numbers get higher) through out the game, mission objectives stay the same, and the game only scales it's numbers up. Levels and UFOs get larger, there's more aliens with more health that cause more damage. Meanwhile I also get more units that have more health and cause more damage, so in the long run, everything stays pretty much the same. Even the maps are pretty homogenous layout wise regardless of the biome or how far in the game you are. In X1 each biome felt more distinct with their own unique traits. (Some being very open while some were really cramped etc.)

To up the stakes, aliens need more than just higher numbers. They need new weapons (burst, aoe, incediary, poison, wall penetrating, long range grenades, slow seeker missiles etc.) new tactics and AI with new tricks and special skills (psi, flying, teleporting etc.) to really force me to adapt my playstyle and to keep me on my toes. Currently I alresdy know pretty much what to expect, even when I raid a new UFO class or meet a new enemy type.

@Chris, this is important to get right.

 

EDIT: I agree Reapers are good for nothing and not scary at all.

I’ve gone through all the comments in here and yours have consistently struck me as comments from someone who has too ambitious of an idea of the kind of game they thought X2 would be lol. The complexities you want weren’t even present in either of the XCOM games and their respective Long War mods. 

[Skitso]

13 hours ago, Murb said:

I’ve gone through all the comments in here and yours have consistently struck me as comments from someone who has too ambitious of an idea of the kind of game they thought X2 would be lol. The complexities you want weren’t even present in either of the XCOM games and their respective Long War mods. 

Might be. I always try to aim as high as possible to achieve greatness -  in every part of my life. Mediocrity is just not something I need or want.

I just came back home from watching the new Alien Romulus movie and It was dog shit, just like most entertainment is today. Just a loud rollercoaster ride in a familiar setting with no greater ambitions than gaining maximum profit. Ridley Scott had ambition and vision back in 1979 and the first Alien is still regarded as one of the greatest scifi movies of all time.

I love Xenonauts 2 as it's clearly a labor of love for Chris and the team and has insane potential to become a timeless classic. Just like the original alien, ie. something people will enjoy for years to come. With vision, ambition and will to do it, they can do it - and if I can help, even a tiny bit, achieving that greatness...

of course I'll do it.

Edited August 23 by Skitso

[domatrix]

I like Milestone 4 very much overall. There are many new features and improvements. But I find the soldiers' time units quite and some other things unbalanced.

For example:

• In the later game, a simple shot costs me 36% time units. Why can I only move 5 squares and then have no more time units for a shot? This is the case even at the simplest game level.
• As often mentioned, the costs for some buildings are quite high, such as the training center.
• I also noticed that all of a sudden the aliens are either very weak or always hit. Even reflex shots from the aliens cause almost often about 100 damage (with good armor). Strange thing is, that loading a save state fells like the difficulty changed. Easy to hard and some days later hard to easy and so on. Could this be possible?
• The colossal armor is all well and good, but the limited choice of weapons makes it difficult to use them effectively.
• I also equipped a soldier with colossal armor, but this does not unlock as an achievement in Steam (Equip a soldier with colossal armor). I suspect this is a bug.

[Xeferah]

I just finished the game for now again, on Commander. Here are some points that might be or might not need to be addressed:

- My setup was 4 research labs within the first 60 days up and running. With these 4 you are pretty solid in research, you still have to make choices as you can't get everything instantly, but you research enough so that you won't fall behind. But now the point, in the mid-game, there will be massive gaps in research. Of course the extra money is welcome, but is this intended? A quick fix would be make the mid- and end-research take more time, but this would be a lazy solution. Perhaps more research needs to be added, perhaps some benefits need to be split up, instead of getting a whole bunch of benefits with one research?

- Money is an issue, but fixable with good strategic planning of engineering workshops. (9 engineering workshops for me, before day 120.) However, certain things are just too expensive. I don't mind at Commander, but for the lower difficulties there should be some adjustments. Examples: the robots and all of the upgrades. It's just too expensive, you simply cannot afford that if you want to build other things too. Also, the training centre, I think I finally build it at day 230 or so? 750K is just too expensive. Again, I don't mind for the higher difficulties, but the lower difficulties should get a free training centre, or otherwise the price lowered a lot!

- Armor: I ALWAYS go for max plating on my soldiers armour. But even so, shit happens. My heavies with colossal armour, max plating, still can get 1-shot. The same goes for stalker armour: sure it's great that the chance to get hit is smaller, but because the armour is too low (even with heavy plating) the soldiers will get 1-shot if they ever get hit. The basically leaves the warden armour as the only viable option: people can still get 1-shot, but at least it has more armour than the stalker armour and it does not have the downsides of colossal armour.

- Air combat: so far I really like it. With precision and paying attention you can take down a lot more than the auto-play. If that would be "fixed", all the sudden we would need a lot more planes, which will go back to the money issue. I can understand that the air combat is not for everyone, but there is a massive downside to not doing them perfectly: money, repair time, leaving aliens ships wrecking havoc. This is a delicate issue and must be handled with care in Milestone 5. 

 

BIG question regarding night missions: at the moment, I simply skip them, as there is a heavy downside to playing one. But do aliens also see less during night missions? Because if certain types of aliens/cleaners would see worse at night, then night missions would make more sense and make it a tactical decisions to try them or not.

[Chris]

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. I'm working on another balance pass at the moment so I'm reading through the last 2-3 pages at the moment, hence why I'm going to be quoting a lot of people in this post.

On 7/24/2024 at 2:17 PM, Xeferah said:

Maybe it's not the aim that annoys me, but the damage range? I have seen the same shot from aliens (with reloads) do damage ranging from 8 to 64. I have no idea how exactly armour works, but I do think the range in damage might be my issue? I also think that armour before the second upgrade 'feels' kinda useless, most likely due to the big damage range. Only after getting pretty high armour my soldiers will reliably survive an alien shot.

On 7/24/2024 at 3:22 PM, Skitso said:

Damage can be anything between 50% to 200% of the base damage. You can think of it as some kind of a damage location model. (Leg vs. Head for example)

@Chris, I think it would be a good idea to communicate these "critical hits" with unique hit sfx and particles (more blood etc) and maybe larger damage numbers to really drive home the fact that this shot really hit where it hurt.

Yes, one of the changes I'm thinking about making for Milestone 5 is reducing the damage variation from 50%-200% to 50%-150%, which is what it was in the original Xenonauts - and I think it's also what OpenXcom eventually settled on as the default settings. It just felt "fair" that damage should range from half damage to double damage, but I think it does result in damage being too spiky overall. 

 

On 7/30/2024 at 1:02 PM, Skitso said:

I agree, but as far as I know, only wraiths are currently able to throw grenades. I hope GH will add grenades later to other enemy types as well. Imagine cyberdrone spreading burst fire of grenades around it once a turn, sebillian burning it's surroundings with incendiary grenades etc.

Alien grenades are also currently a bit dull and too similar to human grenades. The game desperately needs something to push player to change tactics. So maybe slowly moving homing grenades, spreading poison gas etc.

Yes, poison grenades for certain aliens (likely Sebillians) are planned for Milestone 5.

[Chris]

On 8/8/2024 at 9:05 PM, Xeferah said:

Second, I don't know if this is a bug or intended, but on Commander I cannot see how much damage I do with shots, but I can see how much stun and EMP damage I do. Is this a bug? If it's a feature, that makes Commander too easy and it should be removed.

This is a bug, we'll get it fixed.

 

On 8/9/2024 at 7:33 PM, Xeferah said:

A suggestion: every month, add one more alien to the missions. ALL missions. So after day 180, there are +6 aliens to deal with, and +8 after day 240. We can even say that it starts only after 60 days or so, so we'll be at +5 after 180 days. But currently, something like 15 aliens spread out over a full map while I can bring 16 soldiers concentrated in one location? Of course that's not a challenge, not even on Commander.

This already happens. Not in exactly the way you've written, but the effect should be the same. It's probably just that we're not escalating Abduction missions fast enough to keep pace with the player's advancement.

 

On 8/14/2024 at 11:03 AM, Mistole said:

*snip*

Thanks for the lengthy feedback, I appreciate it!

 

On 8/14/2024 at 10:45 PM, Rakiii said:

I think 16 troops on the final ship is a bit too much. It takes too much time to control them.

I prefer lower amount of troops / enemies and shorter games.

I would nerf number of troops to 8-10-12.

Same for aliens. I prefer smaller amount of stronger enemies than plenty of weaker ones.

Yeah, reducing the number of soldiers in a dropship is possible. We originally increased the number because it gave another point of distinction from the smaller teams in Xenonauts 1, but ultimately there was a reason we settled on those numbers in the first game. We might end up reverting to 8-10-12 but then allowing 16 in the final mission. Might have to ask the wider community what they think about that though.

On 8/15/2024 at 10:15 AM, TrashMan said:

Unfortunately Xenonauts2 suffers from the same problem as Xenonauts1 - stale progression. All weapons are mechanically the same. You'd think laser weapons would behave different than projectiles, but they don't. It's boring, predictable "Tier 2 is just tier1 weapon with + damage and a different icon". It's even worse that every tier has the same weapons.

How cool would it be if lasers acted like lasers (highly accurate and long ranged, but damage falls off with range, smoke greatly reducing damage) OR perhaps damage depending on TU's spent?

Have you played the game yet? Lasers have a scaling accuracy boost compared to ballistics, heavier weight, increased armour destruction but lower armour penetration, and lower capacity (but recharging) ammo magazines.

Obviously it's subjective if that makes them feel sufficiently different from the earlier tier of weapons for them to be interesting, but it's also not true that they're mechanically the same barring the damage number like they were in X1.

[gG-Unknown]

46 minutes ago, Chris said:

Yeah, reducing the number of soldiers in a dropship is possible. . We might end up reverting to 8-10-12 but then allowing 16 in the final mission. Might have to ask the wider community what they think about that though.

I have opened this topic some time ago

 

well, I make  two topics in fact. One is a bit  old. Lowering drop ship capacity is a must for wide audience. There are some loud minority, who want even more, like 30 soldiers, so it is wise to announce mode-friendly approach so dedicated nerds are satisfied.

If you consider a sort of pool or voting, also add 6-8-10 progress to  the list.

Thanks

Edited August 27 by gG-Unknown

[Skitso]

19 hours ago, Chris said:

Have you played the game yet? Lasers have a scaling accuracy boost compared to ballistics, heavier weight, increased armour destruction but lower armour penetration, and lower capacity (but recharging) ammo magazines.

Obviously it's subjective if that makes them feel sufficiently different from the earlier tier of weapons for them to be interesting, but it's also not true that they're mechanically the same barring the damage number like they were in X1.

I do think @TrashMan has a valid point there though. While certain weapons do have unique traits, overall the game does play out quite samey regardless of how far in the game you are. The issue is that the game doesn't require to adapt and learn new tactics and I can keep playing almost exactly the same way from mission one to all the way through the game.

This is a copy of my earlier post where I raised a similar concern:

"Enemies are the same, they use same AI routines, tactics and weapons throughout the game, and the game only scales it's numbers up. Levels and UFOs get larger, there's more aliens with more health that cause more damage. Meanwhile I also get more units that have more health and cause more damage, so in the long run, everything stays pretty much the same. Even the maps are pretty homogenous layout wise regardless of the biome or how far in the game you are. In X1 each biome felt more distinct with their own unique traits. (Some being very open while some were really cramped etc.)

To up the stakes, aliens need more than just higher numbers. They need new weapons (burst, aoe, incediary, poison, wall penetrating, long range grenades, slow seeker missiles etc.) new tactics and AI with new tricks and special skills (psi, flying, teleporting etc.) to really force me to adapt my playstyle and to keep me on my toes. Currently I already know pretty much what to expect, even when I raid a new UFO class or meet a new enemy type."

EDIT: I understand the fact that I've played the game way more than most ever will, and that things do start to feel samey when you've put hunders of hours in it. But still, I do think that in general, painting things with broader brush strokes might make the game more fun - even if it means it's not always in perfect balance. Put random 5 mentarchs in some crash site and I'd definitely not anticipate it. And I'd love it!

Edited August 28 by Skitso

[ih8california]

6 hours ago, Skitso said:

"Enemies are the same, they use same AI routines, tactics and weapons throughout the game, and the game only scales it's numbers up. Levels and UFOs get larger, there's more aliens with more health that cause more damage. Meanwhile I also get more units that have more health and cause more damage, so in the long run, everything stays pretty much the same. Even the maps are pretty homogenous layout wise regardless of the biome or how far in the game you are. In X1 each biome felt more distinct with their own unique traits. (Some being very open while some were really cramped etc.)

Agree on the biome point, x1 had cool 2 level buildings with internal & external stairs (would love to see more 2-3 level buildings).
 

7 hours ago, Skitso said:

To up the stakes, aliens need more than just higher numbers. They need new weapons (burst, aoe, incediary, poison, wall penetrating, long range grenades, slow seeker missiles etc.) new tactics and AI with new tricks and special skills (psi, flying, teleporting etc.) to really force me to adapt my playstyle and to keep me on my toes. Currently I already know pretty much what to expect, even when I raid a new UFO class or meet a new enemy type."

I get your thoughts. They have introduced some of this (servitors and psi-amp aliens). Hopefully some more variety can be introduced without making commander more difficult/deadly than it already is.

7 hours ago, Skitso said:

EDIT: I understand the fact that I've played the game way more than most ever will, and that things do start to feel samey when you've put hunders of hours in it. But still, I do think that in general, painting things with broader brush strokes might make the game more fun - even if it means it's not always in perfect balance. Put random 5 mentarchs in some crash site and I'd definitely not anticipate it. And I'd love it!

Yeah, more enemy variety would be appreciated. Not a huge fan of missions that are nothing but androns and wraiths.

[flegmatical]

Hi!

I have just played through the content for milestone 4 (got to the "there's no more content" popup) and thought I'd give my thoughts.

I played ironman on the default difficulty and overall had a pretty enjoyable experience. There was no failed tactical missions, and only 1 or 2 failed interceptions, so the difficulty was not too much. Never had to do any tactical base defense, as 2 ufo defense structures ended up shooting down anything that tried to attack the base.

I can highlight the two things where I struggled the most:

1. The first terror mission. This one was pretty brutal, over half of my squad was wiped out as I met a bunch of androns when I didn't have the highest firepower. Luckily I think half my squad had guardian armor. On the plus side, it made this mission very memorable and I got a special bond with the remaining squad members who got the "I participated in a 50% squad wipe"-medal.

2. There was a period where my radar coverage and amount of interceptors was not enough to shoot down everything. As it is pretty expensive and time-consuming to up your bases, this took a while and I had to do some sketchy manual battles where I barely took down the ufos. Also once or twice I lost a fighter. Very happy that this didn't mean I had to buy another one as my financials would be shattered. I ended up with a base system where I had 3 fighters in Europe, 2 in Asia and 2 in North America and radars in South America, Africa and Australia. In the end with 3+2+2 gemini fighters with fusion lances shooting down ufos was very easy.

Things I like:

The general feel is very classic xcom-like, so that is big creds.

I like that a dropship fits a lot of soldiers, as you can send squads of f.ex. 4 xenonauts to different parts of the map. It doesn't make it as brutal if you lose a couple in a mission as well. While in modern Xcom losing 2 soldiers when you only have 4 you can bring can make a mission spiral out of control.

The designs on the Xcom armors and weapons are very cool so that is also kudos. In modern Xcom I think some of the later armors or weapons looked kind of silly, which almost made it a bummer to upgrade.

I like how you can choose to have light/heavy versions of every armor. Although, since armor is so important, I ended up using heavy armor always. Maybe 50% less armor for the lighter is a bit much. Or maybe the pros of having light armor is not enough.

I like the modules, as well as armor bonuses like the +12 TUs from the vanguard suit. It makes it easier to field fresh recruits later in the game. At the same time, I had a tendency to use the same ones for almost everyone :P (plus strength, plus accuracy)

The HEVY was very useful for destroying cover and something I used a lot. Also like how you can suppress with flashbangs and machine gun fire.

I like how the colossus-suit can be upgraded so you can continue to use it as a sort of tank. Also fun how it can only be used for heavy weapons, it makes for a bit of change in how you play.

The upgraded shield works pretty well. I do wish the pistols had a bit more range, since it's very short right now - on the plus side the fusion pistol does a fair bit of damage.

Wishes:

I kept wanting to have a way to see how long until next funding. Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't find it anywhere. In geoscape it just says "Day x" and there's no concept of what day of the month it is. Maybe funding happens every 30th day or something?

I found it a bit hard to get a complete overview over how many armors and weapons I had available, as the stores won't list the ones that are being used by soldiers. I could go in the armory and see the amount of weapons, but for armors I had to count the ones being used (or unequip all of them). Just getting a count somewhere would help when figuring out how many more I should produce as I know how many soldiers fit in my dropship.

Would love to see more versatility in weapons and armor the same way as how you upgrade the colossus for further use, as how it is right now most of the armors are pure upgrades, and the same can be said for weapons (even though lasers and magnetic weapons can kind of be used side by side because of armor penetration differences)

I didn't use shotguns a lot since they are so limited in their range and have such a big spread. Was useful sometimes in the early game for clearing ufos though. So wish they were a bit more useful. Maybe you could get a TU boost when using them to promote running up close.

The range of weapons in general is a bit annoying in how short they are IMO. I want to shoot at an alien if I manage to get line of sight, but many times it's there's no point unless you have a sniper rifle. And even with the sniper rifle you can be out of range, which makes it pointless to find a high vantage point for my sniper as I'll have to move them closer anyhow. I liked that I wasn't restricted by anything else than line of sight in classic Xcom. Maybe it should be more about damage dropoff and accuracy bonus for different types.

Sometimes wish that the "line of sight" was more of a straight line from the soldier to the target, as the current sub-tile line can look and feel kind of wonky sometimes. Especially if my soldier is elevated, it can feel kind of random what you can or can not shoot over.

I ended up only using the MARS once, since I felt it was very expensive to repair or when you had to build new ones. So ended up just using xenonauts - but that might just be my playstyle.

I wish alien doors were more visible! I spent a lot of time on my first alien base mission since I simply didn't see some of the doors. I ended up hovering over all the walls until I saw the "open doors" icon.

Would be fun if there was more to do in the geoscape other than shooting down ufos and going to missions, but not entirely sure what. Maybe if there was some faction / government things you could do.

I wish unarmed civilians were a bit less crazy. They run around, barging into houses, running in the direction of the aliens. Instead of just chilling in the house they are, where there are no aliens. They're not very good at hiding/staying put :P

The aliens aren't very sneaky. Not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing. But it means, I usually can be pretty sloppy in clearing houses or around UFOs, as if I haven't seen anyone on the approach, or nobody has come out of the house or up to the windows it means it's clear. While in 90's xcom, aliens could be very sneaky and hide in places where they'd ambush you (and sometimes hiding in super annoying places where you almost never found them) 

Less flat buildings. Some more verticality could be fun. Multiple entrances for ufos? (even in the top for when you have jet packs)

Alien variety beyond humanoid with gun (could f.ex. steal the XCOM2 faceless concept and make us distrust the civilians we see running around as they can turn out to be an alien if we get too close)

Conclusion:

All in all, I'm liking it a lot - and the large harvester UFO does really feel very large!

Edited September 8 by flegmatical

[gG-Unknown]

I ve made  several proposals how to make kneel less mandatory. How to make kneel disadvantage in  melee.

 

Here is another tip, how to make player think "kneel or not to kneel" :

When kneeling, throw range is shorter. Minus  40% range.

[Dren608]

Air Combat - I know changes are coming but I want to throw an idea out - What about Pilots getting "piloting points" something like 1 for each interception they aren't shot down, if you play the dogfight then give them and extra point for "shooting down" UFO (i.e. shot that destroys it). Probably max it at 25 (for normal difficulty adjust for challenge settings)

The only use of the points would be to weight the Auto resolve function of air combat. Some people are not going to want to do all the air combats that come along, so this allows dome early investment of playing it to help out later when there are so many. The Formula I would use would be Total Pilot Points of interceptors divided by UFO count gives The % of Damage not inflicted on interceptors. So You could still "loose" and auto resolve Battle but your Aircraft would not get completely trashed (and the resulting long time of rebuild).

I'm looking for an alternative to fighting every air battle, as I think if it is an option you might get a larger interest in the Game as a whole.

Should I make a new topic for this Idea (Air combat)?

I floated an earlier Idea about Scientist and Operations officer being "voice acted" really they have few acting lines, but having a "snarky" voice to read out the Scientist's research finding could be massively entertaining - Heck might even be able to draft some of the Kick starters to audition 

 

[silencer]

Can we add safety distance for the HEVY? 

1. It feels wierd that you can literally shoot your foot with this (the bomb goes 1 tile and explodes)

2. Every high explosive weapon in real life have safety measures. Like I think 40mm grenades need to travel some distance before they get armed.

3. Not to mention how can you shoot your foot with a arc weapon?

4. Low cover should not reduce acc / block of arc weapon.

 

It was said once, and I think we need to repeat this stuff

 

How about some safety spot? How is this legal, when your 3 "resucees" are surrounded on map generation? Might as well spawn all the enemies inside the Dropship. Give them a bunker were they are hunkered but not in immediate threat of being overrun.

Edited September 14 by silencer