Rakiii Posted July 4, 2024 Share Posted July 4, 2024 1 hour ago, Skitso said: I agree: More ufos Shotgun nerf First terror missions too difficult Stun guns too weak Wraiths need some tweaking to be less frustrating AI being too aggressive (missions too front loaded) I disagree: intel gather difficulty. (They seem too easy) My first terror mission was against elite Psyons About intel raid - I don´t know but I have played it many times before and it seems way harder now and was the hardest mission first month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conductiv Posted July 5, 2024 Share Posted July 5, 2024 On 7/4/2024 at 8:52 PM, Skitso said: I agree: More ufos Shotgun nerf First terror missions too difficult Stun guns too weak Wraiths need some tweaking to be less frustrating AI being too aggressive (missions too front loaded) I disagree: intel gather difficulty. (They seem too easy) -the game has a lot of missions over the coarse of a run, many of them being UFO missions, I agree there are huge empty spaces in a month where nothing happens, but more UFO missions might not be the solution. -the shotgun is a brutal weapon, and I think the only weapon that uses accuracy that can actually be used with competence by low (sub 50) accuracy troops. but other then being devastating up close..as its supposed to be..I don't really see a reason to nerf it. -terror missions seem to be hit or miss, I swear I had one where I landed between every single enemy on the map and others where I could patiently pick enemies off. terror missions tend to have more enemies on it and the enemies tend to be of the highest "tech" available to the aliens, so they are harder then a standard UFO, but they are less intimidating then alien bases. -the basic stun gun you get from xenobiology is solid in my book when it comes to stunning, with 25 units of penetration it applies full stun when it hits, and with 100% accuracy multiplier on a 30% TU cost it can be used fairly well by a competent trooper. its EMP damage of 22 is rather pathetic, so its alternate function as a bot killer weapon is moot. this is even more pronounced with the advanced stun weapons, the advanced stun pistol has more then twice the average stun damage, but no penetration, a lower close range accuracy bonus and a worse accuracy multiplier its EMP damage is also pathetic, the rifle requires the primary weapon slot..that is a big ask, especially for a gun that has the same firing profile as a sniper rifle but roughly 1/3th the range. now the strength of these weapons is that they can capture targets, so I understand the lower range and tiny magazines. but they are also the primary source of EMP damage, a damage type specifically intended to kill off robots, and I was hoping that they would be a lot better at that then they currently are. I propose the same stun to EMP rate that the electrogrenade has (a factor of 2, meaning that the 35 stun damage advanced stun pistol would deal a whopping 70 armor bypassing EMP damage, allowing it to at least compete with gauss against robots) this would also make the electroshock rifle a notably more attractive pick when you are facing robotic enemies, maybe attractive enough to use the primary weapon slot for it. but against biological enemies, their stun damage would allow captures at the cost of drastically lowering effective damage output (and as such, amount of troops needed to down enemies). making the weapons a worthwhile tradeoff. -wraiths are offensive nightmares, high accuracy grenade spam, and if they aren't spamming grenades incredibly accurate shooters. tempering their grenade spam would help a lot. -aggressive AI: don't know if that is a bad thing per se. -intel gather is a timed mission and its early in the game, overall I can't say I find it too easy...as the times pushes you into taking risks with your early game squad that generally isn't that powerful yet to steamroll through the mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted July 6, 2024 Share Posted July 6, 2024 (edited) Quote The game has a lot of missions over the coarse of a run, many of them being UFO missions, I agree there are huge empty spaces in a month where nothing happens, but more UFO missions might not be the solution. Yeah, cleaner styled missions with varied objectives are really what the mid-late game needs. Quote -the shotgun is a brutal weapon, and I think the only weapon that uses accuracy that can actually be used with competence by low (sub 50) accuracy troops. but other then being devastating up close..as its supposed to be..I don't really see a reason to nerf it. Maybe 1 or 2 tiles less range would differentiate them more? Quote -terror missions seem to be hit or miss, I swear I had one where I landed between every single enemy on the map and others where I could patiently pick enemies off. terror missions tend to have more enemies on it and the enemies tend to be of the highest "tech" available to the aliens, so they are harder then a standard UFO, but they are less intimidating then alien bases. Yeah, alien spawning needs some balance tweaking. I feel alien bases are easier as the maps are more linear and you can more often proceed one room at at time. Quote -aggressive AI: don't know if that is a bad thing per se. Well it's part of the terror mission problem you mentioned above too. Aliens are spawned close to my drop off point and others push forward aggressively towards it. This makes especially crash site missions very front loaded and rest of the map is often quite empty and boring to run through. Quote -intel gather is a timed mission and its early in the game, overall I can't say I find it too easy...as the times pushes you into taking risks with your early game squad that generally isn't that powerful yet to steamroll through the mission. It's just too easy to collect lots of intel on certain map(s) to fast forward through the cleaner plot. @Conductiv Edited July 6, 2024 by Skitso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gG-Unknown Posted July 6, 2024 Share Posted July 6, 2024 (edited) 3 hours ago, Skitso said: Maybe 1 or 2 tiles less range would differentiate them more? No. Definately no. Shotgun effective range must be longer than pistol, nearby or even a same as SMG. Way how to differentiatee weapons more, is loading time, type of loading or dmg or dmg effects. I proposed several options how to add a flavour to shotgun. My latest best version is : - Shotgun has an ammo buffer for 6 slugs - reload is made by pack of 3 slugs and costs 24 TU (current reload is 8 slugs for 24TU) - range is 12 - armor destruction is 1 (shotgun is weapon against soft targets!) - revert latest TU cost nerf (shotgun is quick weapon, quick to aim, I am thinking even for special bonus for over-watch activation) Edited July 6, 2024 by gG-Unknown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakiii Posted July 6, 2024 Share Posted July 6, 2024 (edited) I also agree that stun weapons should have higher EMP potential to be a better choice against robotic units. I know you cannot suppress robots but giving stun weapons "shock efect" that steals AP from them could also make them more interesting. On the other hand I am not sure about adding more mechanics that might confuse newer players. I would keep shotgun as an effective close range weapon (rather lower effective range than the opposite). I like an idea about adding 1handed SMG´s as an alternative to pistol though, Edited July 6, 2024 by Rakiii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Posted July 6, 2024 Share Posted July 6, 2024 I disagree on the shotgun beeing to strong. When you start a mission you dont know exactly how the map design looks like, so bringing shotguns maybe risky if you end up on open terrain. Even if the terrain fits, you take a lot of risk by going close quarter combat. There may be more aliens around the corner, not just the one you want to blow away with your shotgun. In my opinion, if you are willing to to expose yourself by going in with a shotgun, it should be so strong, that it kills, otherwise why bringing a shotgun... Maybe try playing missions without save/reload if one of your soldiers misses an important shot. I agree on More ufos First terror missions too difficult Stun guns too weak Wraiths need some tweaking to be less frustrating (Grenades especially) Missions too front loaded (partly, I experienced missions with 3 cyberdiscs simultanously later in the mission) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakiii Posted July 7, 2024 Share Posted July 7, 2024 (edited) Pls fix the heavy launcher. I would imagine it can miss a target with 65% hit chance by a few metres but not 50m ! It´s too unpredictable. I have also met the Androns (basic ones). They looks cool and all but are rather weak (especially compared with Wraiths). I can oneshot them with shock grenade or fusion grenade. Well the grenades are bit too strong in general. I would buff their hp pool to 75 at bare minimum. Edited July 8, 2024 by Rakiii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gG-Unknown Posted July 7, 2024 Share Posted July 7, 2024 (edited) Cleaner selections Edited July 7, 2024 by gG-Unknown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 9, 2024 Author Share Posted July 9, 2024 Thanks for the feedback everyone, it's really useful stuff. I'm making some balance changes as a result of this feedback which will arrive in the next hotfix, and there's plenty of things to think about for Milestone 5 too. The Wraiths doing less grenade spam is already out on the Experimental branch. I agree about the missions in the second half of the game being a bit repetitive, but that's something we'll be looking at in Milestone 5. I'll be tweaking a number of weapons in the upcoming hotfix, and making advanced Xenonaut armour offer a bit more protection. I'm also going to set Xenonaut funding to passively increase by +$20k per region per month (so +$120k per month total), which should help the mid-to-late game funding situation being so tight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Pouce Posted July 9, 2024 Share Posted July 9, 2024 I'm sorry but I find the enemy way to accurate in his shots even from full cover and I only play at normal level. I found the game more balanced in the previous version. There I just lost everything against enemies who eliminated me by being at the other end of the map with too advanced equipment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIraaa Posted July 10, 2024 Share Posted July 10, 2024 I second that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziran Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 (edited) WARNING: This contains spoilers for xeno2 for roughly first three months of game (I am on day 78) First congratulation on the xeno2 game. xeno1 was amazing and I finished it many times. From what I have seen xeno2 is even better. Xeno1 was very air warfare dominant to the point where for first 4 months (on higher difficulties) one had to invest in bases/radars/interceptors to exclusion of all else (not to mention ludicrous refuel/rearm/repair times). This thankfully is fixed in X2 I am playing version 4.12.2 (latest on steam) without any mods on SOLDIER difficulty (also unmodified) UI: What is this "CLEANER NETWORK PROGRESS: 75%". I assumed this was some kind of doomsday clock (similar to firaxis xcom1). Nothing I do lowers it. What happens when it reaches 100 ?. I loose the game or something else happens. The XENOPEDIA does not cover this at all nor did any popups. I guess I will find out in about 20 more ingame days. I did not loose any missions so far so what gives ?. I am playing on default SOLDIER difficulty without any alterations or mods. The XENOPEDIA is woefully incomplete. For example most PLOT research results are not there. How does check number of occupied beds in medical center. The XENOPEDIA does not even have any base structures in it (except for allenium power which I do not need atm). The wiki says this: "Building additional Medical Centers beyond the first has no extra effect on healing speed. How you know soldiers are there Base Management Tab - Shows how many beds are currently in use." So at least I know not to build 2nd. But there is no such thing as Base Management Tab. There is a "Base Screen" tab (2nd from left) where I can build or demolish medical center. But hovering over it just explains what it does. Hovering over big + on left does nothing. Hovering over survival chance (40%) and healing rate (2.5/day) just explains what they do. There is no medical capacity list in upper left like there is for example for power capacity. So what gives ? In post battle report can we get info on how much panic/terror is affected for each area (those 6 numbers that start at 25 forgot exactly what they are called and its not in XENOPEDIA) Can we get an option to delete all save games older ingame time then the current one we deleting (or maybe separate button). After every mission I get to manually delete like 20 saves. I know I can turn off making these saves but I do actually want them just in case and its good I do not have to make them manually. I just want to avoid the tedium of cleaning up my save folder afterwards. The "Sell Junk" button is sometimes very scary. For example I just captured live Mentarch (required for PLOT progress) and I am researching it. The sell junk wants to sell it for $20k while I am researching it. Well I did not go through it till after research completed as I paid too high price for Mentarch (2 solders died) not to mention they only show up on larger UFOs that do not come that often (1/month maybe ?) BALANCE: The grenade launcher - This weapon is worse than useless. I would preferer to bring nobody rather then a solider with it. It does 25 damage vs 35 for grenade. I need high STR anyway so range is not an issue with grenades. The weapon and ammo is VERY heavy so I cannot bring med kit or heavy armor. But because it fires at such a shallow arc you cannot fire it from behind the lines it will reliably hit your own troops with disastrous results. Grenades are WAY safer with a mortar like high arc. I cannot move my grenadier to front line since he has wet tissue paper armor. I could in theory move him to flanking position but he would be there all by his lonesome which is bad for survival. These issues are way worse indoors (UFOs, building etc). The grenades are very useful and easy to use and don't weight that much. So just have everyone carry 1-2 and skip grenadier. The terrain clearing is useful but the grenades do it better. Pistol - I never actually tried it in combat. The stats are unimpressive. The only one that would maybe want one is my heavy armor shield guy but after shield, heavy armor and medkit he's usually overloaded already and I would much rather have a useful grenade than pistol of dubious utility with any spare weight. Shotgun - I only started using it recently. It is very good for clearing that first big room in downed UFOs. This is where most of my deaths occur. Overall useful I only started using in recently but it has been worthwhile. I bring 1 Rifle - Ok but nothing special. It is light enough that I can usually bring a few grenades. My newbie troops that do not have STR or ACC usually start as rifleman. I bring 2. Heavy Machinegun - Tricky to use right. Unlike grenadier it is light enough to carry heavy armor so I can have it at the front line (shooting from back past somebody is a NONO resulting in self suppression or injuries). I find the suppression effect worthwhile so I tend to bring 2 with me. It has a tendency to destroy terrain (good) but also things like trucks (so you loose $100k per truck which bad). Sniper Rifle - Only weapon safeish enough to shoot from behind past other troops. More useful outdoors than indoors. I tend to bring 2. Shield - Good but not overpowered. Pair it with heavy armor and medpack and its a great little tank. I try to bring 1 grenade for some offensive utility. I bring 2. Overall tactical balance seems pretty good. I was doing ok first month with just regular armor and ballistic weapons (except on shield guy). But the 2nd month enemies brought those magnetic weapons that could 1 hit kill regular tactical armor. Heavy armor on everyone mostly fixed it (cept in high enemy density areas like first big room of UFO). Now I have heavy warden armor and accelerated weapons so things are back to manageable. Starting with 2nd month I only seem to get the timed missions where tough reinforcements arrive after 7-10 turns and keep arriving (cept for UFO recovery). I had a love/hate relationships with timed in firaxis xcom1 (where it was a hard fail). They seem more on love side with xeno2 where basic objectives are completable if you hustle about when reinforcements arrive. So you just gotta run and fast then. I have not tried to go for extended objectives yet (i.e. capture cleaner VIP instead of killing him). Air battle balance seems good too. The first month you get only PROBEs which a single interceptor can handle with ease. Starting 2nd month you get SCOUTs which single interceptor can still handle (50% damage). Third month you get DESTROYERS which single interceptor cannot handle. I guess I need to invest more in better air weapons and other components. Edited July 11, 2024 by Ziran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyu bey Posted July 11, 2024 Share Posted July 11, 2024 6 hours ago, Ziran said: UI: What is this "CLEANER NETWORK PROGRESS: 75%". I assumed this was some kind of doomsday clock (similar to firaxis xcom1). Nothing I do lowers it. What happens when it reaches 100 ?. I loose the game or something else happens. The XENOPEDIA does not cover this at all nor did any popups. I guess I will find out in about 20 more ingame days. I did not loose any missions so far so what gives ?. I am playing on default SOLDIER difficulty without any alterations or mods. The XENOPEDIA is woefully incomplete. For example most PLOT research results are not there. How does check number of occupied beds in medical center. The XENOPEDIA does not even have any base structures in it (except for allenium power which I do not need atm). The wiki says this: "Building additional Medical Centers beyond the first has no extra effect on healing speed. Cleaner 75%: Too lazy to open the game, but i'm 90% sure game explained it to search for their HQ. Medical center: got a warning the moment you want to place the 2nd one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted July 12, 2024 Share Posted July 12, 2024 Automed module is way OP. It heals too much too quick. Maybe let it heal 20hp and cure 1 bleed per turn or something. I want a small, light, two tile first aid kit that is one use only and can patch 1 bleed and a few hp's. It's odd that sabotaging cleaner computers and opening abduction tubes takes no time. Should be at least 25tu for sabotaging and 5tu for tubes. Teleporters are too easy to cheese. Maybe make them only work in one direction per turn or make using them cost TU's Crushing walls and vaulting windows should cost few extra TU's Grenades are too accurate. It's too easy to suppress everything. Smoke seems a tad too weak. Adbuction missions would be more interesting if the tubes weren't always spread around so evenly. Put random tube spawn points in clusters of 3 or 4 so there might be a bunch of them next to each other generating priority for the player. Enemies could use burst fire more. And do they ever kneel? Other than when suppressed? Larger UFO's feel way too empty. Make a lot more aliens camp there to make raiding them more thrilling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gG-Unknown Posted July 12, 2024 Share Posted July 12, 2024 45 minutes ago, Skitso said: Automed module is way OP. It heals too much too quick. Maybe let it heal 20hp and cure 1 bleed per turn or something. // add 2 points of weight, allow to cure just one effect each round by fallowing priority : bleed, hp, stun ; I think even 20hp per turn is too much, but lets go in small steps. I want a small, light, two tile first aid kit that is one use only and can patch 1 bleed and a few hp's. // no. It would means added manipulation with inventory, lower value of field_medic. It's odd that sabotaging cleaner computers and opening abduction tubes takes no time. Should be at least 25tu for sabotaging and 5tu for tubes. // lets use simple maths and existing patters. Open doors - 4TU >>> Open Tube - 4TU. SabotagePC should cost more, but in 4TU times pattern. Lets try 16TU. Teleporters are too easy to cheese. Maybe make them only work in one direction per turn or make using them cost TU's // I was thinking the same. One teleport per turn per unit sounds like simple rule. TU cost same as Open door - 4TU. Crushing walls and vaulting windows should cost few extra TU's // Yes, 4TU Grenades are too accurate. It's too easy to suppress everything. // that is tricky. I am thinking about analogue grenades, area of effect has some fade_out gradient. What you think? Smoke seems a tad too weak. Adbuction missions would be more interesting if the tubes weren't always spread around so evenly. Put random tube spawn points in clusters of 3 or 4 so there might be a bunch of them next to each other generating priority for the player. // yes Enemies could use burst fire more. And do they ever kneel? Other than when suppressed? // And do they ever kneel? I dont think so. AI is still in raw developing, as recent spike in usage of nades shows. Perhaps highlight to criss this > Learn them to kneel ! Larger UFO's feel way too empty. Make a lot more aliens camp there to make raiding them more thrilling. // Larger UFO need basic aliens added. In RPG games Boss fights word trash is used. So player feel his power. When you get plasma weapons you should still meet weak HP aliens to enjoy one hit one kill hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komandos Posted July 12, 2024 Share Posted July 12, 2024 1 hour ago, Skitso said: Teleporters are too easy to cheese. Maybe make them only work in one direction per turn or make using them cost TU's We can add Activity Points (AP) to the teleports that they will use while working. If the teleporter has run out of Activity Points (AP), then the teleporter will no longer be able to transport soldiers in this round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted July 12, 2024 Share Posted July 12, 2024 25 minutes ago, gG-Unknown said: And do they ever kneel? I dont think so. AI is still in raw developing, as recent spike in usage of nades shows. Perhaps highlight to criss this > Learn them to kneel ! I'm 100% sure Chris reads these threads daily even though he might not actively reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyu bey Posted July 12, 2024 Share Posted July 12, 2024 1 hour ago, Skitso said: Automed module is way OP. It heals too much too quick. Maybe let it heal 20hp and cure 1 bleed per turn or something. I want a small, light, two tile first aid kit that is one use only and can patch 1 bleed and a few hp's. It's odd that sabotaging cleaner computers and opening abduction tubes takes no time. Should be at least 25tu for sabotaging and 5tu for tubes. Teleporters are too easy to cheese. Maybe make them only work in one direction per turn or make using them cost TU's Crushing walls and vaulting windows should cost few extra TU's Grenades are too accurate. It's too easy to suppress everything. Smoke seems a tad too weak. Adbuction missions would be more interesting if the tubes weren't always spread around so evenly. Put random tube spawn points in clusters of 3 or 4 so there might be a bunch of them next to each other generating priority for the player. Enemies could use burst fire more. And do they ever kneel? Other than when suppressed? Larger UFO's feel way too empty. Make a lot more aliens camp there to make raiding them more thrilling. I would argue it's fine since the max hp got reduced anyway after taking a hit. - Turn limit is like a lift that goes up & down per milestone (most likely because people complained), imagine adding 25tu to just grab 1 data. - Keep it at higher difficulty if any. Like that no free tu to turn & shoot. At what situation is this? very near? it should be accurate. I didn't use smoke much at milestone 4, but iirc it's fine. Personally i would just like to see a better enemy spread (& the type!). Many of the combat started intense from spawn then reaching the mid map be like 'yeah, there're only like 2 more enemies now. TIME TO YOLO RUN'. Also getting 1 map filled with literally 1 alien type only. I was like 'you guys in population crisis???' Triple shot from plasma / fusion weapon? I'm betting on 1 dead xeno coming right up. I only do harvester 1 time, but the ufo is huge, but only like 3(?) aliens inside. Everyone else are outside for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komandos Posted July 12, 2024 Share Posted July 12, 2024 (edited) V. 4.12 1 day in the game * A hospital and a gym are more expensive than a scientific laboratory and a factory capable of creating the most advanced weapons and equipment. The hospital and training center should be cheaper. * The warehouse and the hangar are at the same price, although the warehouse is just an empty room with racks, and the hangar is also machines for aircraft maintenance. The power plant is being built almost at the price of a warehouse. The warehouse should be cheaper. * Grenades are 1.5 times heavier than an assault rifle magazine. Although the clip with cartridges for an assault rifle is actually heavier. * The game does not have a rocket launcher, which was in Xenonauts 1. I did not like the grenade launcher available in the game as a replacement. * It takes a very long time for the enemy to make their move, because of this, battles last a very long time. * The maximum capacity of one residential unit is 10 people, and the maximum capacity of air transport is 16 people. The player will have to build two residential blocks on a new base. I completed one battle (Atlas base), but it had to be replayed several times due to the fact that the grenade launcher throws grenades right at my feet, and the soldier, after closing the doors, may find himself on the other side of the doors. Edited July 12, 2024 by Komandos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyu bey Posted July 12, 2024 Share Posted July 12, 2024 1 hour ago, Komandos said: * The maximum capacity of one residential unit is 12 people, and the maximum capacity of air transport is 16 people. The player will have to build two residential blocks on a new base. It's 10. Very doubtful it will be changed to 16 per 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Token Posted July 13, 2024 Share Posted July 13, 2024 (edited) I think the enemy have to high % to hit, not all, but some. Edit: If a soldier crouches down behind a concrete wall, i think they should be hard to hit. Edited July 13, 2024 by Token Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conductiv Posted July 13, 2024 Share Posted July 13, 2024 On 7/12/2024 at 9:03 AM, Skitso said: Automed module is way OP. It heals too much too quick. Maybe let it heal 20hp and cure 1 bleed per turn or something. I want a small, light, two tile first aid kit that is one use only and can patch 1 bleed and a few hp's. It's odd that sabotaging cleaner computers and opening abduction tubes takes no time. Should be at least 25tu for sabotaging and 5tu for tubes. Teleporters are too easy to cheese. Maybe make them only work in one direction per turn or make using them cost TU's Crushing walls and vaulting windows should cost few extra TU's Grenades are too accurate. It's too easy to suppress everything. Smoke seems a tad too weak. Adbuction missions would be more interesting if the tubes weren't always spread around so evenly. Put random tube spawn points in clusters of 3 or 4 so there might be a bunch of them next to each other generating priority for the player. Enemies could use burst fire more. And do they ever kneel? Other than when suppressed? Larger UFO's feel way too empty. Make a lot more aliens camp there to make raiding them more thrilling. -automed is too powerful, I agree to an extend, its power is twofold, it no longer clogs up a secondary slot and it doesn't cost an action. its function as a medical tool to stop bleeds is however critical to its actual use...if it doesn't stop sufficient bleeds, I'd have to pack medkits regardless and that would undo the use of the automed to begin with, its actual heal value is much less important for it to be useful, and can so doing be toned down. the weight of the module can also increase as its much lighter then the medkit is. -a medkit that would act like a 100% hit melee weapon but is a consumable rather then a kit, I'd be totally fine with that. -from one side, it makes sense these actions (hacking/ opening abduction tubes) take time. however the TU costs would drastically change the way low level troops (read low TU troops) can handle these types of missions. -teleporters, 1 way would make base command rooms a 1 side bum rush while making them costs more TU would just get the same cheese but with less performed actions and so doing a greater need for cheese. so I'm on the fence about this. -don't these actions already have a greater TU cost compared to standard movement? -grenades being accurate isn't that bad, for gameplay purposes it allows for solid use of this consumable pool, and damage grenade spam is discouraged by the broken loot system. if flashbangs became inaccurate their use would plummet as they are very dangerous for the troopers themselves, imagine flashbanging your own troops and then catching a volly of reaction fire after that followed by a full enemy turn. hell even just missing and getting nailed by reaction fire would be a massive problem. since losing a soldier is a greater loss then simply not performing an action like that unless it was already safe to do so..its far more likely most players would simply not use grenades when the enemy is facing them. From a realism standpoint I agree, throwing stuff accurately is a learned skill and there is no way grenade throws...especially blind ones would be that accurate by novice troops that can barely hit enemies at mid ranges. but from a gameplay perspective, I think dropping the accuracy would do more harm then good -smoke allows for a 100% miss screen in front of your troops for anything that is 5 tiles or further, provided you can get them to shoot through 5 tiles of smoke. the 100% chance to miss is for both mechanical as well as biological enemies, adds minor stun damage to biological enemies in it on hit, every tile they move through it or if they end their turn in it. Smoke has no upgrades atoll but is a half decent gas grenade and barrier tool. granted, the barrier is double edged and can hinder your troops as much as the enemies but its not weak. -clustered abduction tubes would be great if the player knew where the cluster was from the getgo in order to get the priority feeling. otherwise you just get the "I was RNG'd over" feeling because the cluster decided to spawn in the furthest corner away from your troops in a mission that took longer then expected to shoot through the resistance. or it just spawns them next to the dropship and its like..meh...because no feeling of luck, skill or priority occurs if that happens. -alien plasma and fusion rifles don't have burst fire options I think, not that they really need it as those weapons are plenty deadly as is. and aliens don't ever kneel unless suppressed. how the aliens routine doesn't use it, as they generally move for about half their TU and then stand still in order to still have enough to react, and if a players soldier or neutral trooper is in their range when they have full TU they simply blow everything on attacks or chuck a grenade. they could crouch making them slightly harder to hit and them slightly more accurate, but other then that..I barely see any merit in it. -corner camp death corridors, you sure you want that? its probably easy enough for chris to change the number of aliens that go from their offensive routine to a defensive one. but the result is likely going to be aliens hugging the corners of the UFO and point blanking your troops with reaction fire or creating a plasma grenade surprise. more aliens also increase threat, but can be equally devastating as even now high end UFO's can have a couple of dozen aliens in it. 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Skitso Posted July 14, 2024 Share Posted July 14, 2024 (edited) 7 hours ago, Conductiv said: . -from one side, it makes sense these actions (hacking/ opening abduction tubes) take time. however the TU costs would drastically change the way low level troops (read low TU troops) can handle these types of missions. Well yeah, slower units can do less stuff, which makes perfect sense. If earlier missions become too difficult because of it, it's a different balance question. Doing stuff needs to cost TU. -teleporters, 1 way would make base command rooms a 1 side bum rush while making them costs more TU would just get the same cheese but with less performed actions and so doing a greater need for cheese. so I'm on the fence about this. Same as my answer above. Doing stuff needs to cost TU. If something becomes too difficult because of it, it's a different balance issue. Many current command rooms (bases, HQ's and UFO's) are too easily cheesed. I think it's a map design problem too. It's just boring to gather all troops around the teleporters, then move one shield guy up, throw flash and eat few reactions. Move another guy up, throw flash. Then move rest of the team up and clean the room. IMO only command room that works well currently is the one in the original Cleaner HQ map. It's large enough to make me think my actions more. Command rooms need to be larger and have more solid cover (walls). -don't these actions already have a greater TU cost compared to standard movement? Vaulting a window is actually 2TU's more expensive (5TU) compared to walking one tile (3TU's) I would argue it takes more time, especially if you need to break the glass first, but it's fine. MARS crushing through a wall costs only 1 extra TU (4TU) compared to just moving one tile (3TU). This is too low IMO and needs to be same cost as vaulting. -alien plasma and fusion rifles don't have burst fire options I think, not that they really need it as those weapons are plenty deadly as is. Some enemies using burst or AOE weapons would make the game more interesting and varied. Balancing the difficulty around it is another thing. aliens don't ever kneel unless suppressed. how the aliens routine doesn't use it, as they generally move for about half their TU and then stand still in order to still have enough to react, and if a players soldier or neutral trooper is in their range when they have full TU they simply blow everything on attacks or chuck a grenade. they could crouch making them slightly harder to hit and them slightly more accurate, but other then that..I barely see any merit in it. Well, I crouch my units all the time. It's silly AI can't use the same tools to make optimal play. I just had Aliens adjacent to each other shoot the back of his friend two times in a row. Amusing, but stupid. "Slightly more accurate and harder to hit". Funny you downplay it... Isn't that pretty much the whole point of the tactical part of this game. To be as hard to hit and shoot enemies as accurately as possible? -corner camp death corridors, you sure you want that? its probably easy enough for chris to change the number of aliens that go from their offensive routine to a defensive one. but the result is likely going to be aliens hugging the corners of the UFO and point blanking your troops with reaction fire or creating a plasma grenade surprise. more aliens also increase threat, but can be equally devastating as even now high end UFO's can have a couple of dozen aliens in it. I would gladly welcome a more defensive and campy AI routines every once in a while. I've seen enough crash sites where I have 10+ aliens facing my Skyranger the second I step out of it. And on the other hand, empty UFO's are a real mood killer. Edited July 14, 2024 by Skitso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted July 14, 2024 Share Posted July 14, 2024 (edited) Just reached my first terror mission (~day 120) on my latest playthrough and I need to say it again: it's tough. Yeah, it should be tougher than your average crash site mission at that point of the game, but currently it's BRUTAL. No way should it have three Cyberdrones. Same with the first retaliation mission, too tough. Edited July 14, 2024 by Skitso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyu bey Posted July 14, 2024 Share Posted July 14, 2024 1 hour ago, Skitso said: Just reached my first terror mission (~day 120) on my latest playthrough and I need to say it again: it's tough. Yeah, it should be tougher than your average crash site mission at that point of the game, but currently it's BRUTAL. No way should it have three Cyberdrones. Same with the first retaliation mission, too tough. Are you playing on higher difficulty / something (/ game just hates you)? I only got a little bit of mantid(?) (the brown small alien), a few melee & mostly croc(?) that regen health with plasma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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