gG-Unknown

I went for a short walk Chriss, if you want give a player an option to peak thru teleport, make MARS viable. I mean, currently MARS is hopelessly overpriced, so it is not used by experienced players, for others it works as a noob trap. Slash all MARS prices by half = build, rebuild, all eng. upgrades, all eng time consumption. This way player get an expendable device. Experienced players will not use MARS anyway, becaouse solider is better, but for a noob, it could be a way how to loose a unit cheaply. For example, send to teleport to check siituation. When we talk about number changes, Andron need : armour + 5 , HP -5 , TU - 5 It will be more susceptible to baton, and it will be easier to guess where he could move - so it will be easier to make an ambush. On the other side kill it by shooting wiill a bit more difficult.

Do you actually see that sort of behaviour happening much? // yes, it is common meta. Same as overloading soldiers. But setting a limit of one teleport per turn is going to affect a lot of players who aren't abusing the teleporters, who would just be confused and frustrated by the artificial limitation - and there's likely to be a lot more casual players who are affected than there are experienced players who want to cheese the teleporters. // There are (almost) no situations where normal player would like to port-in-and-out-in-same-turn. (There are two rooms in alien base with one teleport, room has no other entry. So in this special case, you would do a " normal" play, go in, check room - and go out. ) If you remove those two room which has zero value, then I can safely say >> Whole Game has No situation where normal player want to teleport twice in a turn. Do you see, there is no single case where a normal player could be confused or frustrated. Normal play by my book is : Teleport in, do some action, which always takes more than one turn. Go back. you see, the normal player will not even notice the rule " one teleport per turn", because he play like this naturally. I'm not sure that this issue is a huge priority really, // yes it is but I guess a better solution would just be to give a large Reflexes penalty to any soldier who uses a teleporter more than once a turn. That would make any teleport-cheese soldier very vulnerable to reaction fire but not affect players who are playing normally. // Well, you miss the target, again. By Add any artificial debuff after the second teleport solve nothing. Because, after second teleport soldier is back on the safe level. so He doesnt care any debuff. BTW > a de-buff it is even more artificial than simple denial. It's not that dissimilar to cheesing a doorway or a building corner really. // Oh Dear ! Do you remember that myself and Skitso were screaming on you, about 2 years ago, that doors in a base have to be fully automatic because manual doors is cheese ? You deny it, then re-enabled, then again enabled then again. Crazy ! You probably dont know term " Walling " it was coined in early online games, where players cheese AI by pushing self or enemy into the wall, to fool AI do not attack. this type of gameplay was punished by a ban from online world. Here we go again, AI has some limits (or turn based ruleset) then player cheese it, by opening doors, or teleporting back and forth. It is the same principle, gain advantage by abusing rule-set or technical boundaries. The issue with making this strategy less effective is exactly what the player said in the video - "I don't know what to do here, the Andron is unsuppressable". The danger is that command rooms become a place where people are guaranteed to take casualties whatever they do. Setting it so teleporters are effectively one-way trips would do that, I think. // WHAT ?! Chriss, you have made many great things but sometimes, ... Peak up is fallowed by peak down :-] No offence, only one who does nothing makes no mistakes. Player is weak, he do not use Machinegun nighter melee, he is not prepared to use shield so absorb dmg for sake of team assault - he dont need to suppress Andron, it is the only tactiic he knows. Instead, he could kill opponent in one go. On top, you probably missed Servitor which didnt get chance to shoot do to teleporting back and forth. Again, weak player is not a reason to allow cheese !!! In my current plathru on M6 I reached day 200, never used in-out teleport in one turn. Never been wiped ( whole team dead, or mission failed) because of one way ticket. HOW A TELEPORT SHOULD BE USED NORMALLY Player gather group of soldiers, prepare their equip, share grenades (we should have a feature to pick up items from adjacent tiles) then execute BREACH. Shield goes first (lets assume that narrow shield has been fixed) then other soldiers fallows based on situation, perhaps Mg, perhaps shotgun, perhaps melee. BREACH is most dangerous and iconic moment of the whole gameplay !!! Player have to prepare then move carefully and consider risks. In out teleports removes the most iconic part of game THE BREACH! Bridge of every UFO, Alen base Control room - these are sort of the Boss fight. (using dungeon crawler terms) It is the final AND most difficult fight of the whole map/dungeon. Player should execute perfect BREACH or swallow the consequences. To support intense gameplay, to support risk management, teleports have to use rule "one time per round". Here is lore : Teleporting an entity means dissemble all molecules then assemble it back on other place. If you try to teleport to quickly, back and forth, molecules start to vibrate differently, which leads to an unpleasant result. Teleported item do not assemble correctly but turns into a blob. Therefore, all teleporters have a safety feature, to check if entity is ready to be teleported.

No kidding, invasion is in full swing see for yourself Here is a full document, get your Blasters ready : insert_to_your_browser youtu.be/6OBMUFmXRj4?si=bX27l_5y1_zV-sKM&t=98

I have found perfect example of Whack-a-mole issue. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2694823663?t=00h41m22s I highlighted the issue several times already, include suggested solution. Make sure that the new trigger use a rule "one teleporting per turn at max" See my previous post in this thread. The trick is based on mechanic of reaction fire, as long as teleported soldier keep enough TU he is safe. I em highlighting it again, by video, to make sure we get rid of this toxic type of gameplay.

Map is nicely done. It fits the style. Dont cut it. I see solution by adding more oponents. For all difficulties. On veteran I would say 20 is optimal. (see alien base numbers or abductor = both has 20 ) Recruit should have 16 opponents but weak once. I think Secton with a new pistol of 9 range is the proper opponent which helps tune maps for Recruits. BTW : The scaling of difficulty you did with Sebilians by healing-regen works great. ( Scale based on simple armour buff is removed = superb) If you go add Feed and OverFeed feature I proposed in M6 balance thread, it could scale the same way = Higher level of Seb adds higher percentage gain from feeding. e.g. Base Seb gets 30% healing from melee dmg, Each level add 10% so Praetorian gets 80% healing from melee dmg. You know, I would really like to see an youtuber screaming : " Stop eating me ! " ---------------------------------------- Interesting catch - this is my second Terror mission AND both are Soviet town = that stinks. A bonus tip for you to make game feel more divers >>> Rule : Terror mission spawn system check the previous biome of terror mission then select different. e.g. if I get the first Soviet town then the second mission will certainly not be soviet town.

I have a save on turn 0, landing. user_day_185_terror_site_manual_save-33.rar There was a lot of civ, none survived, it is possible that 2 aliens were killed by civ so I didnt see them. Number of aliens should be related to the map size. Mayby that soviet town design is full of small buildings and walls so it feel like a larger than it actually is. Result playing Soviet town is = empty feeling. I cant remember how many opponents I get in M5 in terror missions but it felt more intense. On top, It was a night mission, so I expected I will be demolished, but I get only two hits. ( OR perhaps I m just insanely good tactician, LOL, and this complain is nonsense.) Anyway, The bombs are not there that is for sure.

it is a second terror mission on Veteran diff. Day 185, see the opponents numbers. On top their HP and armour is weak. Difficulty setting is totally off. On top no bomb present on map, so I didt get alenium LOOT ! On top, on the after mission report, I do not see mission reward. Where is panic ? Why did I made an effort ? do not know ... satisfaction zero.

I know there will be community members happy // small step for a astronaut programmer, but huge leap for a humankind playerkind to read about things like the return of weapons having Reflex Modifiers, // Yes, please. Reaction bonuses were removed for a good reason - Too many numbers, I agreed to delete them. Lets Do not fall into the same hole again. I think we need just one Group - "Fast Handling Weapons" which all gets the same bonus. Every other weapon then stay as now. Power of Simplicity is underrated. Make it as a Weapon Property so it is easy to find in Xenopaedia. Quick handling weapons should be : pistols, SMGs, shotguns (include alien versions. We want fair play, right) and all melee weapons include natural weapons like claws. (alligator lurking just behind the door should go snappy snap). When we talk about this, natural weapon should be considered as "always selected", therefore aliens could use in reaction two weapons in one round, the one which is selected AND the natural. This way, Aligators are always ready to bite with a bonus for melee reaction, regardless weapon type in their hand. the addition of a new Interrogation project for Cleaner Leaders, // Very nice. Several missions offers to capture them, so allow interrogate all of them them is lovely. the ability to manually activate teleporters when your soldiers are stood on them, // Ooooh! Looking forward the for the UI. Anyway, please Make sure that the new trigger use a rule "one teleporting per turn at max", current unfair whack-a-mole trick is awful. and making being on a higher / lower level than your target give a more straightforward hit chance increase / decrease in the tactical combat. // I know this was asked several times but, I strongly ask you do not do this. Seriously no. It is an artificial rule which is copied from dumb games. After your latest balance package regular_rifle x sniper it is just perfect, dont brake it please by adding a flat acc bonus. Here is a better version for height advantage : being on a higher level than your target reduces target's cover which comes from an interfering objects. (not smoke, only items)Each level of difference reduces (subtract) 20% of interfering, so when attacker gets on level 3 shooting down on level 1 have an advantage minus 40 % from cover made by interfering objects. That means hiding behind items do not help (mostly) against attackers at high ground. Which is perfectly OK. Contrary, If you would add a straightforward flat acc bonus to hit, you get unwanted edge cases like a shotguner climbs on a container to shoot 2 tiles away on a target to get the height bonus. Or even worst, people will try to end round on a container while crouching to get defence bonus. Ridiculous! Add a defensive bonus to higher targets is not needed at all, just make sure that all buildings have the small defensive wall on roof. I know that all the buildings in arctic environment do not have this wall, perhaps there are some others too. Here is another idea, which support verticality gameplay : being on a higher / lower level than your target give a plus / minus one tile of throwing range per level of difference Logical and fun rule. You throw further from higher place AND it is obviously harder to throw up. You could try it yourself, climb on a garage and throw a canned beer, you will see that you land it farther than usual. Chriss, Do you like it ? Thank you considering my ideas to make the game better !

Looking forward for those 5000 words update. Funny thing, I have asked for Colossus being able to crush Symbionts a year ago, and Chris replyed: Well, it was not true. I can not crush Symbiots when they are not on battlefield, obviously. So It took me just a year of recommendations, bitching, and announcing bugs that aliens are not using the bugs. Then suddenly we get a superb news : Hallelujah ! Could I ask for another 3 related improvements ? Make Symb Luncher use ballistic curve like grenade luncher , so the live form can better survive g-force acceleration and it would it would be only indirect alien weapon. (aliens should have at least one, right ?) Current texture of Symb. luncher weapon uses the same colour like mantid natural skin colour, so it looks like an thick hand instead of The_Signature_Weapon. Solution: re-skin Symb luncher so it uses an distinct colour, like toxic green or meaty pink - which are different to mantid brown. When Mantid dies, it release one Symbiont which lives in symbiosis attached on Mantid. Praetorians can release 2 Symbionts. More Symbionts, means more powerful symbiosis means more powerful Mantid. Easy as that. Thank you in advance, // I edit and fixed an typo mistake and it asks for approval from moderator again. Sorry.

Blocking partial burst was discussed several times. Same as clip consolidation feature (combine two partially consumed clips into one) ===== Results were 2. types : No response from devs. Vague promise that somewhere in the future it could be possible. ===== Recently I have asked Chriss for a fix off rolling loading (partial loading, one by one, how you name it) for shotguns and Grenade louchner. By my guess it could take 2 man-days of work, but it was considered as too expensive and not important. I would assume that proper handling ammo, clips and loading is the highly important part of tactical game with weapons but, ...

we want to avoid vertical stacking of smoke too. // that is sad. Majority of players consider it as a bug, worth to announce, but you see it as intended feature. We had similar conversation yesterday. partially because stacked smoke would be extremely hard to see through and navigate in general, // I have asked several times, make smoke less thick. Smoke visual should be an information for player not actual hindrance. partially because when shooting up / down a level you'd get into situations where a bullet passing through a single ground-level tile might end up hitting both the ground floor smoke and the upper level smoke (which would be very confusing for a player), / I dont see any problem here. and partially because the smoke particles look a littlle strange hovering in mid-air. // perhaps you need two types of smoke item, one anchored to the ground, second which is a mid-air-smoke so it is properly attached to top of the ground smoke. It can also be quite difficult to figure out where a smoke tile actually is if it's not on top of a ground tile due to the perspective of the camera. // no, see the sentence before There is long time bug/feature (several times announced as bug in bug section with zero response) that smoke do not spread on water. Are you going to fix it or keep it as "intended" ?

Spread smoke as expected in volume, then check camera position and do not show stacked smoke tiles. Do things properly. I see certain patternt in bugs and issues, it looks to me, that lots of coding and "solutions" are result of previous fake or mockups.

Civs on abduction missions are present for at least 2 years, I guess you saw them on your various playthru. Saved civs on terror mission or survived civs on terror mission do nothing since terror missions was introduced.

Your vision is different from a player vision. Your easy 30 minute fix creates a list of issues for player. Sometimes your ideas are great, the last balance fix for sniper x regular_rifle was awesome, but quite often is not even average.

I am sure that in last two years it doesnt. However, if you merge civilians with reward and civilians without reward into one number it only adds confusion. In many cases, player is asked to save civilians ( I am sure the Operation lady on first Terror mission makes a specific request) but there is no reward. Is it bug , or intended , or underdeveloped ?

That idea will certainly add confusion. Example MG has clip for 30. I have one spare full clip. after one long burst I reload ( there is a UFO breach so I want to be ready, ) next round I will see that reload is not available, (30 in weapon, spare clip in backpack has 20) next round I will shoot a normal burst and see that reload is not available, next round I will shoot a normal burst and see that reload is not available, next round I will shoot a normal burst and see that reload is available (15 in weapon, spare clip in backpack has 20) Confusion granted. ------------------------------------ Better logic : For reload always use the most full clip available. Modify reload button so it shows number of shells in upcoming reload. : 32 [25] Green colour use TU, Blue colour use shells. ---------------------------------------------- This reload button modification would help add proper shotgun/gr.louncher reload. As you may know, these two weapon has no clip, but independent shells which are manually loaded one by one into the buffer inside the weapon. To simulate this, we need two reload buttons: Shotgun example ( at this moment I would I pretend that shotgun reload costs is 32) 1. Reload weapon to the full button, it counts the missing shells in the weapon, and re-count TU accordingly so it dynamically changes cost of reload based on missing shells. Then for full reload of shotgun we get several options : 32[8] l 28[7] | 22[6] | and so on. 2. Dedicated button to add one shell : 4[1] it is always the same. No variants here. Result of this feature is impresive, weapons start to behave like expected. The cost per shell could be cranked up a bit, so price per shell rises. But soldier could better use his TU and is not removed from ffiredight when he (Partially) reload. So reloading style, add another flavour to weapon usage. It creates different handling weapon with clips VS weapon with buffer.

Smoke spreading is wierd in general. It requires the proper floor. It means, smoke is not able spread (on same level) when floor is water OR air. It behaves wierd when smoke blast on edge on pond or edge of cliff or edge of roof building. I guess, that smoke should spread in a spherical volume, not only in one level or limited by certain floor.

for @Chris here is another nice example how AI "do not" intentionally abuse narrow shield. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2685050310?t=02h53m04s

So I think the poison grenade tooltip is correct. // tooltip shows only half of truth. Is the half of truth correct information ? Very philosophical question. The explosion effect from the grenade suffers drop-off just like normal grenades do, so you're probably seeing reduced damage values because the grenade didn't land on the tile where your soldier is standing. // you are right. HP and Armour destruction use dmg drop off. I didnt know that. Similarly, the issue with the shield taking damage from the initial explosion is because the initial explosion is chemical rather than gas damage (some acidic fragmention explosion from the grenade, rather than from the poison gas itself). So the shield is affected by that in the same way it is affected by normal explosion damage. // this one is tricky. Xenonauts 2 set Shield as meat, pure HP buffer. Based on other games, I still think about Shield as Armour. Therefore I thought that Armour destruction should be applied on Shield. I guess that mind flip will be difficult also for other players. To make it even more confusing, grenade has two dmg effects - Blast, Cloud. Unfortunately, tooltip shows only Blast. So here comes the fix : expand Grenades Tooltip so it shows Blast property section, and Cloud property section. It applies on Alien Gas gr. AND Smoke gr. ( this request is valid >> show full ruleset to a player. ) If it were set to be gas damage, it would bypass the shield completely // by the the current rule-set I have just discovered, where you count a shield as added frontal meat but not armour, yes you are right. It sounds silly but fallows yours rules. (but would be negated if the unit had a gas mask). I think having it as chemical damage is best. // define another dmg type as Chemical is wise. My confusion came from the fact that the Shield 100% blocks explosion blast. So, Shield carrier hit by a Poison gas grenade works like this : Shield (counts as meat) gets raw dmg,( no armour reduction apply) AND it fully blocks the blast ! This is another thing I didnt realise, shields blocks Explosions (it is probably correct by rule-set, but .. feels silly.) If you wanted some partially blocking shield situation, then make this :Blast type dmg is blocked by 80%, rest goes through (around be precise). It is far better (logical) than Narrow shield feature. ------- There is a another weird thing I have found, but I am not sure how to fix it. Shield carrier who gets Blast from his back get his armour destroyed AND HP damaged as expected, but his Shield (the frontal bonus meat) gets full dmg too! That is not good. If you get blast from behind and we count Shield as meat buffer (not armour), it means WE GET DAMAGE TWICE ?! Possible FIX : Here is my first idea how to fix the issue, feel free to add your thoughts. >>> Shield absorbs dmg from front (body is safe) then body absorb dmg from behind (shield is safe). e.g. When Shield carrier gets Blast dmg, it is applied only once. -------- Yes, in an ideal world the gas mask would be an on/off item but we don't have time to add support for that right now. Giving it health is an interesting idea. I don't know how much work that is, but again I suspect we're probably not going to have time to implement it prior to release as we're working on quite tight timescales. But that might be something we add post-launch. // re-skin air combat was bloody consuming. Well, anything which turns a mandatory dead weight item into an actual gameplay is welcome. I'm not sure if we want to add armour destruction to the poison gas. To me, that doesn't really make sense - that's the one thing you wouldn't expect poison to damage. I think for now I'm happy to leave it so that poison gas doesn't really affect rebreather soldiers, and in future I think giving rebreathers HP would give the effect you want. // The main role of a gas is the area denial weapon. It is the same since WW1 use of chlorine gas - gas moves slowly and is visible. The main trick is : heavy gas fills up the trench so soldier has to climb up and be shot. Another example of area denial weapon is tear gas used by anti-riot police force. It simply makes people move off the street so they can not protest. That is the main reason why gas type attack is used. Player expects the similar - you see the gas >> you run. As you see, current setting is Unfortunate. Combination of mandatory mask AND gas fully blocked dmg by mask does nothing. Well, it reduces carry capacity of a soldier, is it the goal ? Based on the conversation with Skitso,we have found we need two Alien gas grenades. Create another item is work for 20 minutes, then spread it on Alien archetypes takes ... an hour ? Doable fix with impressive results. ( Masks with "armour" which work as consumable would be even better of course, On/Off masks idea circulates on forum for about 2 years, it would be best add on top of all recommended features.) HOT FIX : Keep current "Alien Poison Grenade", as it is. Then add it as a copy renamed to "Alien Corrosive Grenade". It does the same, with an exception cloud has minus one armour destruction. The "Alien Corrosive Grenade" is used by Elite and Praetorian levels of opponents. This way we get 1. continuously rising threat as game progress, new players could adapt 2. in later stages of game, experienced players get gas work properly again as the area denial weapon. BTW alien grenades weren't ever meant to be usable equipment, and this is going to be fixed in Milestone 7. // cleaner weapons weren't ever meant to be usable equipment, but they are now. For a good reason, it supports gameplay. Pick up equipment of defeated opponents is staple since first MUD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-user_dungeon Loot and XP is the fuel of games since ever. On top, current tactical loop is barren, that is true. Two most interesting weapons in game are fucked (gr. luncher and trigger bomb) so add anything which diversify current monotonous game loop is highly welcome. On top, pick up alien grenades add interaction with inventory, which is otherwise used very seldom. I dont really see any drawback. Argument of balance is silly - aliens has 1 - 4 nades per map >> This amount of grenades as variable is acceptable for list of benefits mentioned above. Compare current madness caused by overloading soldiers. ( well the issue is there since ever. I have announced it as serious issue a year ago, but you did nothing. Probably because it is no big deal, right ? ) You asked people to give you feedback on difficulty of M6 while they overload soldiers like no tomorrow. Then, You get the random results. Who would have thought, right ? Common, be good and give us alien nades. :=] BTW : can I get your thoughts on Narrow Shield conversation we have in the Balance topic ? thx

There could be misunderstanding. Current after-battle report shows "Civilian saved" line, but this line has no connection to civilians saved from Abduction tubes. Also, there is no reward for those civilians who are saved and listed in this line. It is under-developed part of game, not bug :=)

Poison grenades lose their threat in mid to late game // dont agree my friend. Poison grenades are threat only to new players. Any experience player or anyone who read guidees, or anyone who watch pro-casters knows that gas mask is mandatory since mission one. No threat at all. when everyone is protected by advanced armours and/or rebreathers. Higher level aliens should either pack other type of grenades or gas grenades should have a more potent version for later stages of the game. Regarding gas having armour destruction, I think it makes perfect sense if you think the gas as something that is strongly corrosive. // yes, corrosive is much better word for the Alien grenade than poison. This would make the gas grenade much more of a threat in later stages of the game too. // gas grenade should be the area denial weapon, which makes player to change position. I think you step on something important, gas grenade should scale throu game stages. Perhaps, we can keep curent gas grenade as "poison greande" then upgraded gas is "corrosive grenade". Nice scaling. It means, that poison work as now, while corrosive work as I recommend initially. Progress !

Crashed UFO costs Command points, Landed is free. 1. landed 2. crashed 3. crashed ================== total command points cost 100 VS 1. crashed 2.crashed 3. landed ================== total command points cost 0 So, here is where my feeling "getting robbed" comes from. I am 100 Command points short . When player put an effort to catch landed UFO, he is "awarded" by reduction 100CP Unfair rule-set.

Include bleed and aliens and civs. Make those messages more visual.

I catched one landed Observer, then I shot one. Then I get message "Observer delegated" Is it correct that landed UFO counts towards The Delegated limit ? I thought that landed UFO are bonus, now I feel like I am robbed by one crashed UFO mission.

Just want to say thank you for a small step you did silently and not say nowhere. I asked you for comfortable UI. So player could use mouse pointer to click on other soldier on top of screen bar, ( in the past we could only click on those oversize buttons (Previoius/Next) developed in early 90' ) Suddenly I it is here, it works, halelujah ! It didnt even take so long, just a year or three.