Skitso Posted July 20, 2024 Share Posted July 20, 2024 (edited) Raiding cruiser UFO felt difficulty wise about as tough (too easy) as abductor before it. (both had about 20 enemies) After abductors, I've raided only one crash site per UFO type and only collected bounties until day 230 and still I'm only restricted by money. I have no need to manufacture alenium or alloys at all and have a nice stock of exotic materials (100+ of both) Edited July 20, 2024 by Skitso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeferah Posted July 20, 2024 Share Posted July 20, 2024 Just now, Skitso said: Raiding cruiser UFO felt difficulty wise about as tough (too easy) as abductor before it. (both had about 20 enemies) After abductors, I've raided only one crash site per UFO type and only collected bounties until day 230 and still I'm only restricted by money. I have no need to manufacture alenium or alloys at all and have a nice stock of exotic materials (100+ of both) I noticed the same. It's the reason I restarted around day 230, to see if I can get more money out of the engineering department. I seriously lack money in that phase of the game. I skip on a LOT of upgrades, due to this. For the restart, I'm at day 32 and I have 4 labs, 4 engineering and 6 living quarters As engineering only really starts to pay itself back after the engineering upgrade, I will most likely lack some money for the next few months. To get more money, I managed to grab all 20 data sticks from the cleaner mission, and now I am on the cleaner mission to eliminate the leader where I will try to do the same. Still playing on commander here. The challenge is fun, but the lack of funds after day 200+ isn't so that's why I'm gonna try this tactic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardoz2206 Posted July 20, 2024 Share Posted July 20, 2024 i will agree with all : terror missions are a bit too hard (enemies tend to have way more accuracy then your own soldiers and are very densely populated) (you are supposed to save people on these but you will have trouble enough saving your own soldiers) first terror mission for me was ok at veteran level (with a few reloads) but the second i am getting now with servitors, wraiths and androns is quite deadly. main issue i would say seem to be the wraiths which are a bit overpowered, their aim seem to be better than your own best snipers. crouching / hiding behind elements seem also to make very little difference with the enemy chance to hit you. i don t understand for instance why i can be 100% hit when hiding behind the corner of a buidling. i am not saying i don t like challenge, but in that case all other missions should be way more challenging to be on par. colossus armor doesn t seem so great currently (i don t feel like i am getting really that much more protection than using a guardian armor. (and you are losing the use of your modules with that) heavy weapons are a bit too much restricted by distance in my opinion, chances to hit should be reduced but not anihillated like the way they are now. (or i guess i should go on those terror missions with all snipers and 2 scouts. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardoz2206 Posted July 20, 2024 Share Posted July 20, 2024 PS : civilians on those terror missions should either stay hidden in a building or run to you/your ship in my opinion, they shouldn t be running away from you. especially when they have no weapon do defend themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardoz2206 Posted July 20, 2024 Share Posted July 20, 2024 (edited) bah was gonna say alien can see and shoot through closed door but that door is opened even if it is hard to see that at first. Edited July 20, 2024 by zardoz2206 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeferah Posted July 20, 2024 Share Posted July 20, 2024 (edited) 3 hours ago, zardoz2206 said: first terror mission for me was ok at veteran level (with a few reloads) but the second i am getting now with servitors, wraiths and androns is quite deadly. main issue i would say seem to be the wraiths which are a bit overpowered, their aim seem to be better than your own best snipers. crouching / hiding behind elements seem also to make very little difference with the enemy chance to hit you. i don t understand for instance why i can be 100% hit when hiding behind the corner of a buidling. heavy weapons are a bit too much restricted by distance in my opinion, chances to hit should be reduced but not anihillated like the way they are now. (or i guess i should go on those terror missions with all snipers and 2 scouts. ) My take: funny, I would say that wraiths are quite weak. They often die to one hit, and you can use grenades to make them visible if they are too hard to hit otherwise. I do agree that crouching and hiding seem to be quite weak, especially against a bunch of sectons with their +50 aim bonus ... I also agree on the corner, that does seem a bit weird to me, even though the game does tell you from what angles you don't get any cover. For heavies: I always pick the ones with high strength and decent aim for those. I think their hit chance is then pretty darned good, even in the 10-shot salvo. Those with high strength and average aim, I use those to be the shields. High aim and high TU will be regular soldiers or assaults. Highest aim becomes sniper, if with low TU or low HP. And soldier with red stats are dismissed and replaced. Btw, does anyone use a grenadier, like ever? Edited July 20, 2024 by Xeferah Sectons, not sections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardoz2206 Posted July 20, 2024 Share Posted July 20, 2024 the issue with the wraith is they are coming at you and can take you from a long distance, but i totally changed my tactics for the terror mission and it worked much better (2 sniper and 1 heavy waiting for enemies to come near ship under cover while all others went behind the south batiment (you risk less to be hit when you are between a wall and the border.) before that i was dividing into 2 teams of 6 trying to go agressively towards the ennemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardoz2206 Posted July 20, 2024 Share Posted July 20, 2024 if you were going agressively at those wraiths, trying to kill with assault guys, on next turn some aliens nearby would come to the rescue and wipe you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted July 21, 2024 Share Posted July 21, 2024 (edited) Meaningful progression pretty much breaks apart after day 220 or so but I'm sure this is a known "issue". I've never played this far and the game felt quite nice and balanced up to maybe day 160 but from there on, I've struggled to have motivation to proceed further. The game desperately needs more missions to make the invasion feel more intimidating and aliens more proactive. This isn't stuff for balance thread, but damn the Gemini interceptor is fugly. Looks like a carnival themed bat wing. Really disappointed that the ultimate interceptor looks like a plastic toy rather than something futuristic, yet believably militaristic. Please bring Marauder design back from the Xenonauts 1. For comparisons sake: Xenonauts 1 Marauder vs. Xenonauts 2 Gemini Edited July 21, 2024 by Skitso 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaianDestiny Posted July 21, 2024 Share Posted July 21, 2024 Yeah I agree, the Marauder works waaaay better as something that looks futuristic and blended with alien technologies while also still looking like something that humanity could produce. The Gemini leans too much into...something. I think I understand it's trying to evoke a human-made alien craft but it just doesn't work IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gG-Unknown Posted July 21, 2024 Share Posted July 21, 2024 (edited) I have just discovered that drop ship has progress 9 / 12/ 16 soldiers. That is insanity. Too much soldiers, too long turns, sluggish gameplay, quit fallows. My reccomendation change dropship capacity progress to : 8 / 10 / 12 or even one soldier lower, is better : 7 / 9 / 11 For a unique mission you can allow two dropships at once, but standard mission MUST flow, gameplay have to be snappy !!! Sluggish gameplay could be reason why many people DO NOT BUY this, be reasonable please. Edited July 21, 2024 by gG-Unknown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komandos Posted July 22, 2024 Share Posted July 22, 2024 22 hours ago, gG-Unknown said: My reccomendation change dropship capacity progress to : 8 / 10 / 12 or even one soldier lower, is better : 7 / 9 / 11 For a unique mission you can allow two dropships at once, but standard mission MUST flow, gameplay have to be snappy !!! Sluggish gameplay could be reason why many people DO NOT BUY this, be reasonable please. There are many role-playing games (RPG) where the player controls exactly a small number of Units. But in such games, the system of role-playing interaction of characters and character development is very well developed. Because: The intensity of tactical battles alone is not enough for the player to be interested in participating in the huge number of battles that are present in role-playing games. By reducing the number of soldiers in combat: we reduce the tactical variety of situations in combat and do not give the player anything in return: Neither a huge number of things and objects (which are present in role-playing games), nor character development. Besides role-playing games, there are also strategy games. In these games, there are a huge number of units on the battlefield. The development of role-playing characteristics in strategic games may not be at all. There may also be no items, equipment, or trophies that can be given to units and put on Units. However, in such games, a huge number of tactical situations arise on the battlefield. That is why strategy games are interesting to many players. Games like UFO (X-Com) occupy an intermediate position between role-playing games and strategy games. If we want to reduce the number of units on the battlefield (thereby reducing tactical diversity), then we must increase the number of role-playing elements in this game. Otherwise, we will get a copy of the role-playing game with 5-12 characters. but without a role-playing system. I believe that in a game that should have a lot of battles: there should be a huge number of items (as in the OpenXcom: X-Piratez modification, where we meet new items in almost every battle, even at the very late stages of the game), there should be more scientific research (new research appears after each battle); There should be more opportunities for the development of role-playing characteristics, there should be more game locations. And vice versa: in games where only a few battles take place throughout the game (wargames, strategy games), a huge number of troops (units) and a huge number of types of troops are created. Total: It all depends on the number of battles (on average for the entire game), which we will focus on when creating the game. For example, I prefer 10-20 battles for the whole game, but large battles (number of Units 16-36), than 100 battles but small battles (number of Units 3-12) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakiii Posted July 22, 2024 Share Posted July 22, 2024 On 7/21/2024 at 10:25 AM, gG-Unknown said: I have just discovered that drop ship has progress 9 / 12/ 16 soldiers. That is insanity. Too much soldiers, too long turns, sluggish gameplay, quit fallows. My reccomendation change dropship capacity progress to : 8 / 10 / 12 or even one soldier lower, is better : 7 / 9 / 11 For a unique mission you can allow two dropships at once, but standard mission MUST flow, gameplay have to be snappy !!! Sluggish gameplay could be reason why many people DO NOT BUY this, be reasonable please. I also think that 16 soldiers is overkill. 8-10-12 would be better I didn´t need more than 12 soldiers to beat the current content on Commander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyu bey Posted July 22, 2024 Share Posted July 22, 2024 Changing the soldiers number? when the game still missing some content? no. Just don't built the last dropship if you don't need it (yet?) like me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardoz2206 Posted July 22, 2024 Share Posted July 22, 2024 money is probably still too tight for having a large number of soldiers to fill those drop ships. But i still like having lot of soldiers, so keep the numbers high is good for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komandos Posted July 22, 2024 Share Posted July 22, 2024 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rakiii said: I also think that 16 soldiers is overkill. 8-10-12 would be better I didn´t need more than 12 soldiers to beat the current content on Commander. One kidney is enough for a person to live. Should people have a second kidney removed? Edited July 22, 2024 by Komandos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted July 23, 2024 Share Posted July 23, 2024 (edited) Make sebillian shoot only burst fire. Ties neatly to their poor sight trait and fits great with the character IMO. It would also differentiate them nicely from other races. There aren't much burst firing enemies after cleaners are done and I rarely even need to think about enemies suppressing my units. Edited July 23, 2024 by Skitso 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeferah Posted July 23, 2024 Share Posted July 23, 2024 Just now, Skitso said: Make sebillian shoot only burst fire. Ties neatly to their poor sight trait and fits great with the character IMO. It would also differentiate them nicely from other races. There aren't much burst firing enemies after cleaners are done and I rarely even need to think about enemies suppressing my units. Nice suggestion. I also want to add in an extra suggestion: let enemies prioritize melee hits every time it's possible, at least for the enemies that have good melee attacks. I don't know about you guys, but I have never seen an enemy use melee, like ever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gG-Unknown Posted July 23, 2024 Share Posted July 23, 2024 21 hours ago, kyu bey said: Changing the soldiers number? when the game still missing some content? no. Just don't built the last dropship if you don't need it (yet?) like me. Adjust number of soldiers towards digestible amount is needed to do now. Mission difficiculty and objectives (missions and tasks) are not sealed yet, so it is perfect timing. The fact that you could manage go thru, without need max squad size means - I am right, my arguments are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 23, 2024 Author Share Posted July 23, 2024 Again, thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll probably be making another round of balance tweaks for 4.19, mostly looking at the overall enemy accuracy levels on everything but Commander and maybe making that first terror site a bit less dangerous when facing Psyon or Wraith teams. I'll bear the other feedback in mind for Milestone 5, as we're a bit limited in terms of what we can change as part of a hotfix for Milestone 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komandos Posted July 24, 2024 Share Posted July 24, 2024 (edited) 21 hours ago, gG-Unknown said: The fact that you could manage go thru, without need max squad size means - I am right, my arguments are correct. The fact that you could live a good life without requiring the maximum number of kidneys (two) does not mean that one kidney is superfluous, and the arguments in favor of removing the "extra" second kidney are correct. If the player wants to take fewer soldiers with him on a combat mission, then let him take fewer soldiers with him on a combat mission. Currently, the game makes it easy for you to do this. You cannot force your tactics on the rest of the player, who need more soldiers to complete the task. More soldiers (More soldiers compared to fewer soldiers): can make more shots in one turn, can kill more aliens in 1 turn, can explore more space in one turn. Consequently, more soldiers can complete any task faster. I see no point in increasing the difficulty of the game and increasing the time to complete combat missions by reducing the number of soldiers in battle. The game is already quite difficult, and the number of combat missions in the game is large enough to further increase the complexity of the game and the time to complete combat missions. I believe that the desired number of soldiers in battle should be added to the difficulty settings of the game. Then each player will be able to choose the difficulty of the game (the number of soldiers in battle) at their discretion. Why force all the players to play the game the way you personally like to play? Edited July 24, 2024 by Komandos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 24, 2024 Author Share Posted July 24, 2024 You've got to remember that difficulty settings have a multiplicative effect on the amount of balancing required. Pretty much every mission has 3 or more alien species / teams that could spawn for them, and there's four different difficulty settings already. That means there's 12 possible ways that mission can be experienced already, and it's very difficult to stay on top of it as is - it seems like Sebillians are relatively quite a bit weaker than Wraiths, for example. If you add three settings for the troop numbers you can bring to battle, you're talking about nearly 40 possible configurations for a single mission. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeferah Posted July 24, 2024 Share Posted July 24, 2024 Just now, Chris said: Again, thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll probably be making another round of balance tweaks for 4.19, mostly looking at the overall enemy accuracy levels on everything but Commander and maybe making that first terror site a bit less dangerous when facing Psyon or Wraith teams. I'll bear the other feedback in mind for Milestone 5, as we're a bit limited in terms of what we can change as part of a hotfix for Milestone 4. I'm not convinced that commander does not need some minor tweaks though. I mean, sometimes soldiers die in 1 hit when an enemy shoots through 5 tiles of smoke, while being crouched. Now I'm sure that one tile of smoke reduces aim by 20%, so 5 tiles should be -100%. Add in the fact that even with the best armor, it's still possible to get 1-shot, this does not add a "fun" layer to the game. Sure, it happens, but it happens often. Not once every 10 battles, but more like once or more per battle, especially with sectiods and psyions. It even happened with wraiths one time, through 5 tiles of smoke. It could be a bug of course, but I think it has to do with the multiplier on commander (125% aim modifier). I think the calculation does something like this: aim at 100%, commander difficulty brings it to 100 x 1.25 = 125. Add in sectoid +50 bonus, now it's 175 aim. Add high cover at 40% and 5 tiles of smoke and you are still left with a 25% chance to be hit. Is this intentional, or should the calculation be like this: 100% aim, add +50 bonus, now at 150 aim. Add 40% cover and 5 tiles of smoke, that's 10% chance to hit. Commander difficulty would bring it to 10 x 1.25 = 12,5% chance to be hit. I'm just curious, which one is correct and is it intentional? I see some alien shots where I think "This is bullshit", but I'm not sure if it's intentional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komandos Posted July 24, 2024 Share Posted July 24, 2024 54 minutes ago, Chris said: That means there's 12 possible ways that mission can be experienced already, and it's very difficult to stay on top of it as is - it seems like Sebillians are relatively quite a bit weaker than Wraiths, for example. If you add three settings for the troop numbers you can bring to battle, you're talking about nearly 40 possible configurations for a single mission. Additional gameplay difficulty settings can be opened after the player completes the game. (When the player needs additional innovations and the novelty of the gameplay.) 2. If a player is a bad tactician and loses too many of his soldiers in combat missions, then only he himself can choose a comfortable balance of the game (the complexity of the game). It is possible to increase the dimensions of the vehicle (the number of soldiers transported) by reducing the speed of this vehicle. The player will have to make a choice: either get to the place of completion of the task earlier (start completing the task earlier) and get a tactical, strategic, financial bonus (reward) from this. Or arrive at the place of completion of the task later and with a large number of soldiers, but get less reward for it. (For example: the later the player arrives at the task, the less cash bonus and government approval the player will receive). The player's ability (if desired by the player himself) to take more soldiers on a mission also opens up the opportunity for the player to train (train) more soldiers. This makes the loss of experienced soldiers in battle less painful and less critical for the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeferah Posted July 24, 2024 Share Posted July 24, 2024 Also, the way cover is currently set up, I got a question about that was well. I always assumed that if you aim at a 45 degree angle, you could aim (or get hit) around that corner. See screenshot 1. But it appears the angle is even greater than that. Again, intentional or not? The second screenshot shows that you can't aim too far up, as the wall starts to block the shots. And the third screenshot shows that the angle is greater than 45 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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