Both websites out of date

[Max_Caine]

NastyNative, get your facts right

On In-house Testers at Goldhawk

There has been a professional in-house tester working with Goldhawk since January last year.

On Beta release in June 2012?

In Three Builds to Beta thread and the news post dated August 16th the plan to release a beta by 9th of October, 2012 is revealed. In the final paragraph of the news post (emphasis added):

Of course, there may be snags along the way and we can’t promise we’ll hit the deadlines (the rendering is looking a bit tight at the moment), but we’ve got something to aim for now and we’ll do our best!

There are legitimate complaints you could make, NastyNative. Others on the forums have made far more measured complaints about things such as the speed of progression of game development. But if you're going to swing around complaints then check your facts first.

[thothkins]

Ohh but its not unrealistic to announced a beta for June 2012. To get them peeps that were going to purchase the Firaxis XCOM remake. Marketing 101!

Yeah. I did mention this a couple of times now. In the context of the forums here, you could see the work leading up to the mention of a date. Then came the date. Then, if you were here, you could see the steps taken to get to the point of work complete that would have been released on that date.

Now, it really depends on how important a mention of a date is for you. If you feel you can't trust the company having not made it, then you can keep your pennies. That's what you continue to do and that's fine.

If you're aware that the deadline wasn't something written in stone, and was dependant on the work being done, then perhaps you would be a little more flexible.

Now, I don't like broken commitments any more than the next alien infiltrator. But the work required was stated pretty clearly at the time. Had Goldhawk popped up, announced a date, and then vanished for the next year then I would have felt differently. I've not pre ordered anything from UFO - ET for example.

I seem to recall Goldhawk putting in extra effort to have a build for the Kickstarter campaign. Plus there was extra effort towards the EU2012 launch as well. It's not as though they are in a position to simply hire loads of people to push towards a deadline created by another game.

Also a release date for a game you want to charge for its kind of a big deal!

Particularly if you have already got pre order pennies. As mentioned previously, I've no doubt that when the Devs feel the game in that final straight, a date would be announced. I'd be a little embarrassed if I hear about the release from Gorlom 8 months after it's launched. But why the obsession with the deadline. I like to think of it as further opportunities to make it all work better.

How does a buggy game that crashes and has so many issues excatly take the edge off?

Proof can be found on this forum just a couple of threads away!

Well that's the thing, a fair number of the builds get you over two months into the game. It is alpha and so bugs are par for the course in developing it. Some builds, particularly those adding new things, will have more than others. This a constructive thing, not a bad thing.

It's also part of the fun. In Alpha I try out all of the weapons in as many silly ways as possible to see if it crashes. I do silly things with the vehicles and generally muck about an awful lot more than I would in an actual release. So, I learn a lot more about the game in the process. Oh, and you get to see everything early. All the new toys, all the maps, all that X-Com goodness you are missing.

So because no one mentions it, Im not allowed to either?

Not in anything I've posted, so that's a bit defensive.

No game is perfect even at Vanilla level! There will be bugs!

Perhaps. But what's better, a game that has only a small dev team testing for bugs or a game that has had robust Alpha and Beta phases played by a fair sized community before release? Those would be the very bugs being caught, you get worked up about in the last point.

LOL.. well I do remember a time when companies had to pay for Alpha tester. Now it seems like they found their minions to do the work for free and pay the company.

We are the Xeno-Interns! I just hope NastyNative doesn't mention..

Why not get paid thats all I'm saying or atleast not taking jobs away from those tester who

have the skill required to give back professional feed back!

D'Oh! There it is. Now I'm taking food away from the destitute children of the fictitious testers that Goldhawk may not have had the budget to hire. Perhaps the minimum Alpha Slave wage would have forced Goldhawk to go offshore, and you could have a go at them using fictitious foreign labour instead of imaginary domestic labour

I do understand your point, but your under the assumption that such people would be brought on board, that the money offered to them would be sufficient to ensure quality, that the people hiring them were excellent recruiters, that there would be enough of them... and so on.

If the Dev team had some true in house testers we will be much closer to a release and probably have a set date. Imagine that!

I don't think that's the case. There are other constraints in place well before anything gets to the point it can be tested. It will

become the case, particularly with quality of feedback later on. For example, the AI is being worked on. Now the huge in house testing team won't be able to spot problems with that, unless they are psychic. Hey! Is that where the Psi Amps have gone in Xenonauts?

Although I will agree that a lot of final releases are not done.

Multiply those pennies and we are talking about serious money.

Having had a go at the game not meeting a release date and having a go because it shows off it's alpha bugs, this reads as an endorsement to release a bug filled game early? I'm sure that can't be the case. I'm a bit more concerned about my enjoyment than how much people are making off the product, to be honest.

Yes I forget I have to go with what everyone else is doing.. Sorry!

That's Ok. You can't help but be touchy on that one I did type in things like "general" and "broad strokes" which last time I checked meant that not everyone would fall into that category.

Are you a Dev?

No! I am Devo! (Well, I chuckled...)

You sound pretty sure of your self.Cause if your not then its just your opinion not a fact and neither

can a Dev make that promise.

Besides, I am pretty sure of myself there. Breaking what I typed down...

"So my pennies both in pre order and in Kickstarter have already been returned to me numerous times over...and then..for the return I've had, mine has been."

I asked the person who would be able to definitely say whether I had received value for money..me. and I had. That's pretty sure.

"Is there any indication at all that you can find that Xenonauts won't be finished?"

No there isn't a hint of such a thing. There is no indication of such a thing. Pretty sure there too. Now a Large Scout could land on Chris tomorrow, in a bit of cosmic irony, but it won't have been foreshadowed here.

"Not from the progress in the development section there isn't. That's a far more accurate measure than hinging everything on a couple of rather hopeful dates."

I'm pretty sure than paying attention, through regular updates, to how a project runs is a better indicator of it's actual progress than popping into the forum once a year.

So, yeah, pretty sure on all of the above.

Again, There are people that make their living testing in house!

Instead of the backwards ways it seems to work today.

Yeah, I was just talking to my mate Ned ludd about that the other day.

Test my game and pay me for it..LOL

You do know that every single person who's paid for the game, could simply have put in the cash and sat waiting for the launch. No one has to touch any of the builds. Let alone give feedback. Some posts say things along those lines. So, there are people who want to support it. They buy it and will wait for release, or for Beta, or for the nod that's it's a stable build. This might be you lumping us all together in the way you were overly defensive about others doing earlier you know.

If you read it I mentioned how pissed I would be if I HAD PURCHASED the alpha and had to hear remarks like those about why I was promised something and was not delivered. Im glad very glad I have not purchased this alpha!

Ah, your post didn't use the word "had". Oddly this is in the same way that Goldhawk have never used the word "promise". Let me know if you find it. Otherwise the argument just doesn't stack up.

I know its hard for Fandboys to look at this for what it is.

That's another generalisation thrown out in an uncalled for way (unless that was just a personal attack ). Fanboys are, in a bad light :-

-Extreme fans; non-objective, given to hyperbole, will shout down any opposing viewpoint.

I'm struggling to to think of a single blind lemming cheerleading-in-the-face-of-certain-doom thread on the forum. I can think of plenty of threads that debate practically every point in X-Com to the point the Devs ears must be bleeding. There's also Buddhist Civilians and Pancakes throughout history. It's just not that kind of place, in my experience.

It's not really a place for someone to drone on about a single point in the face of the evidence...

A money making machine!

Wait, now you're telling me this?! After all that typing? This is some sort of ...profit making scheme? Goldhawk will shamelessly look for sales on Xenonauts to establish a foundation for making other, different games?

Bloody silly choice to pick X-Com if they wanted to make a quick buck then...

there should be tough questions about the product you are want to sell the public!

...and so there should, if it faulty. Just as some of the public should learn to accept that a blame, complain and claim culture isn't the only way.

[Gorlom]

I'd be a little embarrassed if I hear about the release from Gorlom 8 months after it's launched. But why the obsession with the deadline. I like to think of it as further opportunities to make it all work better.

You really want to bring ME of all people into the discussion? o.0

[thothkins]

Oddly, you were the first person I thought of while on this thread No idea why

More importantly... you would tell me if it was released wouldn't you? Hey, why does your T-Shirt have "Xenonauts 2 " on it?

[Gorlom]

Oddly, you were the first person I thought of while on this thread No idea why

More importantly... you would tell me if it was released wouldn't you? Hey, why does your T-Shirt have "Xenonauts 2 " on it?

I wouldn't tell you per se... I'd pay for television advertisement time during superbowl, or the local equivilent, to mock you (and anyone else) that doesn't know yet.

It's a marketing campaign. What it intends to acomplish is a secret for now. (I'm evaluating the preliminary results I'm currently getting form the test run before I go largescale). Don't worry about it just yet.

[Commissar Pancakes]

Oddly, you were the first person I thought of while on this thread No idea why

Ironic, since he's on NM's ignore list...

More importantly... you would tell me if it was released wouldn't you? Hey, why does your T-Shirt have "Xenonauts 2 " on it?

Oh shite! GORLOM!!! YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO WEAR THAT YET!!!

Back to the main point (or the strange turn this thread has taken...):

NM, you believe that the game is incomplete, and not yet worth the $20 (or $30) for early access to the Alpha build of the game. That's your opinion and nobody is going to fault you on that.

The thing is, most of us here believe that it is well worth the price. For one, we all are updated quite a bit on new bits of the game. We're in constant contact with the devs, allowing us direct influence into how the game is created, making sure that we receive the game we've always wanted for a decade. Heck, it's almost like we're honorary devs in a way.

We get a community who is utterly like-minded, yet is civil and open to differing opinions (something that is as rare as a 1 million game code giveaway on the internet). Just look at the posts about EU2012.

So please don't project your value system upon the rest of us. Trust me, it's all just a matter of perspective.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Commissar Pancakes

[a333]

«..In his cold, lonely existance between the intertubes, a troll always seeking a way to start a fire wherever he goes. If succeeded, he jumps into the very center of the newborn calamity and dance with the flames, which, while burning his skin, also gleaming in the bottom of his eyes, awakening pieces of the shattered soul. As the fire rages, he lives..»

Actually, this community is really one of the friendliest i've ever meet.

[mordenkien]

Actually, this community is really one of the friendliest i've ever meet.

Agreed. I've been on forums were posting your opion with a single spelling mistake is a virtual death sentance nevermind having a diffrent opinion.

happy and gratefull for a forum where everyone is welcome and friendly

too anyone i may have offended anywhere on site my unreserved apologies.

[Jean-Luc]

Actually this community is one of the most buddhist I've ever seen. Namaste.

[svidangel]

So what you are saying is all the flaming is self inflicted? Hmm, reminds me I need to check and see if that hot topic is still going...

[djlogue]

Actually this community is one of the most buddhist I've ever seen. Namaste.

Yes this site is like an oasis in the desert (the desert being the interweb)

This other website that I am the head of the user union on is similar as in there are minimal trolls/spam, and an overall nice vibe about the place (bar one or two people)

If you are in to free parties or general social waffling I suggest you give it a look see. partyvibe.com.

I'm also gonna make a good few posts about xenozeros on there either today or tomoz in a hope I can get some more peeps intrested

[gfulton]

LOL I figured Gorlom would be trolling. Thank god I put him on my ignore list way back!

Nothing changes!

Hello NastyNative,

I would encourage you to at least check out the latest developments over the past year. I only started playing yesterday, having no knowledge of the game prior to about 2 weeks ago, and I am able to have fun playing. The most important thing for me was that the mechanics are in such a state that when I am playing, it feels like XCOM. For me this means the developers have been on the right track from the start, and are unlikely to deviate at this point. It may not be ready for your liking yet, but I have faith it will when it is complete - provided you enjoy XCOM, at least.

[djlogue]

I joined 12 months ago, and decided to pre order 3 days ago, so they must be doing something right cos otherwise I would be saying "few glad I didn't pre order that hunk of sprites"

(Or i'm just really stupid....... oh look......faberge eggs!!)

[Gorlom]

(Or i'm just really stupid....... oh look......faberge eggs!!)

What is it about Fabrege eggs that excites you? The eggs part or the Fabrege part? Is it that they are colourful? Is it that they are made out of chocolate? waaaait a minute.... That's not right, is it?

Does easter eggs work just as well or are they less interesting since they are seasonal? Is the easter bunny one of your personal heroes?

Have you ever been to Easter island? If not do you ever plan to go there? Does Easter island even have anything to do with the holiday?

[djlogue]

I dunno really, It all started while looting an alien corpse one day, and he seemed to have these lovely shiny faberge eggs on his belt. From then onway I have been kinda hooked on them. I have been trying to wean myself off them with psychedelic peacocks. I find them equally as pretty.

[djlogue]

OMG what about a psychedelic faberge peacock egg!!! Lord kaysus I have found my purpose in life!!

[Chris]

Might just close this thread, not sure it's contributing much. Development is indeed taking a while, much longer than originally anticipated, and if NastyNative wants to wait until the game is released to buy it (or not) then that's totally fine by me. Not everyone wants to pre-fund a game.

Equally, if he thinks he could make a game better / faster than we are then he's more than willing to have a go himself. I imagine it may be more difficult than he expects.