Farmers with shotguns

[peirceg]

I would like to see the occasional farmer/hunter with a shotgun/rifle in some of the missions!

[XenoMask]

I think thats planned unless I'm wrong.

[Covent]

It might be a nice addition, but it should be very limited, the last thing I want is to have the AI win the mission because of a farmer getting some lucky shots.

[Giovanni]

It's already planned (included in the upcoming tileset-specific Friendly AI units mentinoed here).

And no worry that they will kill all the aliens, they don't have experience, advanced weapons and armours to fight them as you do!

[GoodGuyEddy]

It's already planned (included in the upcoming tileset-specific Friendly AI units mentinoed here).

And no worry that they will kill all the aliens, they don't have experience, advanced weapons and armours to fight them as you do!

But how about redneck shotgun armed mobs doing drive-bys on jeeps?

[Gauddlike]

But how about redneck shotgun armed mobs doing drive-bys on jeeps?

You forgot to mention they were dragging a Sebillian behind them.

[Gazz]

I'd like to see a parked pickup with a shot sectoid in the back. =)

[Jean-Luc]

But how about redneck shotgun armed mobs doing drive-bys on jeeps?

The southern hemisphere shall rise again!

[gnarly]

But how about redneck shotgun armed mobs doing drive-bys on jeeps?

The southern hemisphere shall rise again!

I resemble that remark....

;D

[Chris]

Yeah these shotgun-wielding farmers are in V15!

[Buzzles]

It could only be made greater if just before firing they shout "Get oorf my laaaand!" in a West Country accent. The UK folk will know exactly what I'm talking about.

[StellarRat]

I would the aliens would be more afraid of farmers driving combines! In US at least they drive some truly enormous machinery nowadays.

That reminds me, why can't you simply run over an alien with XCom vehicles???

Edited September 21, 2012 by StellarRat

[Gorlom]

That reminds me, why can't you simply run over an alien with XCom vehicles???

Because realism isn't that fun gameplay, even if one finds that particular act hilarious?

Just guessing

[StellarRat]

Because realism isn't that fun gameplay, even if one finds that particular act hilarious?

Just guessing

No, it would be fun, realistic, and good gameplay.

[Max_Caine]

I can see it being tricky and expensive to execute properly. If a vehicle did X damage (either as a function of movment or simply X amount of damage regardless of movement) and the vehicle didn't do sufficent damage to kill the alien, then the vehicle would come to a stop in front of the alien which wouldn't "make sense". I can imagine complaints about why would a 4-tile wide vehicle be stopped by a 1-tile alien! If vehicle pushing were taken into account, then without the proper investment in animation it would look bad for an alien to slide backwards while the vehicle pushed forwards. Could you imagine the cost and work involved in animating the appropriate "splat" for each of the alien races that could be splatted in all 4 directions, for all grades of that race?

If the ram did instant death, oblivating the need and problems of the above then it would probably be more cost effective to ram things rather than shoot them. The Hunter starts off with 80 APs, so it can travel pretty far. I can imagine that the later grades of vehicle would either have the same or more APs and may or may not be able to monster truck across more terrain than the Hunter can.

There is also the issue of defence for the alien. An alien can take reaction shots against a vehicle, but they have good armour and decent HPs. It's risky for a solider to get up close with an alien. It isn't so risky for a vehicle (although this may change with subsequent versions). Addtionally, it wouldn't "sit right" if while a vehicle tries to run over an alien for it to stand there, eyes blinking, while several tons of metal death comes bearing down on it. I'm guessing a reflex test would be necessary, combined with a free move, but even if the test was passed and the alien could take a free move, the player can re-adjust the vehicle to bring it down on the alien again.

I'm not saying it can't be done, just it requires what looks like a lot of work to implement it, and I'm uncertain if the developers want to spend that time doing it.

[StellarRat]

I can see it being tricky and expensive to execute properly. If a vehicle did X damage (either as a function of movment or simply X amount of damage regardless of movement) and the vehicle didn't do sufficent damage to kill the alien, then the vehicle would come to a stop in front of the alien which wouldn't "make sense". I can imagine complaints about why would a 4-tile wide vehicle be stopped by a 1-tile alien! If vehicle pushing were taken into account, then without the proper investment in animation it would look bad for an alien to slide backwards while the vehicle pushed forwards. Could you imagine the cost and work involved in animating the appropriate "splat" for each of the alien races that could be splatted in all 4 directions, for all grades of that race?

If the ram did instant death, oblivating the need and problems of the above then it would probably be more cost effective to ram things rather than shoot them. The Hunter starts off with 80 APs, so it can travel pretty far. I can imagine that the later grades of vehicle would either have the same or more APs and may or may not be able to monster truck across more terrain than the Hunter can.

There is also the issue of defence for the alien. An alien can take reaction shots against a vehicle, but they have good armour and decent HPs. It's risky for a solider to get up close with an alien. It isn't so risky for a vehicle (although this may change with subsequent versions). Addtionally, it wouldn't "sit right" if while a vehicle tries to run over an alien for it to stand there, eyes blinking, while several tons of metal death comes bearing down on it. I'm guessing a reflex test would be necessary, combined with a free move, but even if the test was passed and the alien could take a free move, the player can re-adjust the vehicle to bring it down on the alien again.

I'm not saying it can't be done, just it requires what looks like a lot of work to implement it, and I'm uncertain if the developers want to spend that time doing it.

Well, first off, I think with the new AI it won't be too common to catch an alien out in the open where you could run over it. When the vehicle entered the alien's tile the alien would simply disappear. There wouldn't be any pushing. If the vehicle didn't kill the alien I wouldn't have an issue with the alien "re-appearing" behind or to side of the vehicle in a crouch if the vehicle ended it's move the in aliens tile (with potential suppression.) If vehicle passed through the alien's tile (it's behind the vehicle) alien could just reappear in crouching position and possibly suppressed in the tile where the vehicle tried to run over it. I'm not sure we'd need special "getting run over" animations. As far as damage goes, I'd just assign a variable amount to getting crushed (0 to 75 pts?). I could see a Sellbian surviving this quite often. Remember, any enemy might be completely missed (went between the wheels), could have it's legs run over, or maybe just be completely flattened.

[GoodGuyEddy]

hat reminds me, why can't you simply run over an alien with XCom vehicles???

Because it would do jack all. Ok maybe you forced it to go back a couple of steps, now what, prepare to get plasma'd. Maybe it would damage/kill an unarmoured caesan red shirt but that's it. Plasma weaponry is very brutal technology, and if their armor can deal with it at all then a bump of about 30 mph from a vehicle that had at MOST a 100 meters to accelerate won't do much. Now you might say that you can still crush them by flooring the gas pedal and applying pressure but by that point the'yll just shoot enough plasma at the hunter to burn a hole right through the drivers head. And even if the vehicle ramming would be sort of effective we'd just get superior alien untits to fight likie mechs that would take a few railgun slugs to take down. Besides the game itself is an abstract representation. Normally an alien would just jump/ walk away from the huge, obviously incoming vehicle. Their weapons are powerfull enough to burn through the hunters armor, at no point the driver would try ramming the enemy armed with such weaponry. It's either shoot them or fall back if you are without ammunition. How often do you see a tank trying to RAM infantry that is armed with effective anti tank weaponry?

Long story short: Ramming's not worth to bother implementing, sebilians that we get nearly at the start of the game would hardly be phased by it, better off just shooting them WITH THE HEAVY ARMAMENTS MOUNTED ON THE VEHICLE.

Edited September 21, 2012 by GoodGuyEddy

[StellarRat]

Because it would do jack all. Ok maybe you forced it to go back a couple of steps, now what, prepare to get plasma'd. Maybe it would damage/kill an unarmoured caesan red shirt but that's it. Plasma weaponry is very brutal technology, and if their armor can deal with it at all then a bump of about 30 mph from a vehicle that had at MOST a 100 meters to accelerate won't do much. Now you might say that you can still crush them by flooring the gas pedal and applying pressure but by that point the'yll just shoot enough plasma at the hunter to burn a hole right through the drivers head. And even if the vehicle ramming would be sort of effective we'd just get superior alien untits to fight likie mechs that would take a few railgun slugs to take down. Besides the game itself is an abstract representation. Normally an alien would just jump/ walk away from the huge, obviously incoming vehicle. Their weapons are powerfull enough to burn through the hunters armor, at no point the driver would try ramming the enemy armed with such weaponry. It's either shoot them or fall back if you are without ammunition. How often do you see a tank trying to RAM infantry that is armed with effective anti tank weaponry?

Long story short: Ramming's not worth to bother implementing, sebilians that we get nearly at the start of the game would hardly be phased by it, better off just shooting them WITH THE HEAVY ARMAMENTS MOUNTED ON THE VEHICLE.

I'm talking about RUN OVER not RAM. Big difference. I'm talking tire tracks across their bodies. Ten tons crushing them into the ground. You think the alien is going to do a Superman hold out his hands stop a Hunter?!?!? He might shoot it and maybe even destroy it before it runs over him, but I doubt he's going to just get up and brush off his space suit if he's stuck a foot into the in dirt. We already have aliens dying when a building collapses on them don't you think getting crushed by an armored vehicle isn't almost as bad?

Obviously, 90% of the time shooting them would be better and safer, but what if you're out of missiles OR action points to fire again?

Edited September 21, 2012 by StellarRat

[GoodGuyEddy]

I'm talking about RUN OVER not RAM.

No your talking abou practically the same thing. You see the reaserch text, colours sebilians as close range ambush fighters. They are tougher than any man ever and most probably have high reaction timing. They'll just leapfrog out of the way. You are not driving a 20 tonn main battle tank, the hunter only weighs a few tons, not to mention the pressure will be lifted a second later when the car drives over them. Even if they don't brush it off they'l still shoot your car while laying down, you are not fighting people. It takes a couple of seconds for the car to get to the enemy , it takes a fraction of one to push a button. Anything more than a cesan would just easily blast it to bits or avoid it without problem. Honestly if the Hunter is 30 feet in front of me and starts accelarating i'll be able to step aside. You know what i can't walk away from? A barrage of 50 cal bullets! Units desighned for war with technology beyond the dreams of modern military fear nothing from a 10 mph bump. There are records of people surviving being runned over by heavy vehicles, beings with physical attributes of that which can be decribed as super human and weaponry that is far beyond our rifles give 0 damns.

but what if you're out of missiles OR action points to fire again?

Tough, you lose a vehicle and deal with it.

Edit: Enemy sibilian: YOU SHALL NOT PAAAAAAASSS! (probably had to take more then 10 feet to accelarate)

Edited September 21, 2012 by GoodGuyEddy

[Max_Caine]

Guys, guys, ultimately, you gotta ask the question - would it happen enough to be worth doing? If the answer is yes, then go ahead. Otherwise, it isn't worth doing.

[GoodGuyEddy]

Guys, guys, ultimately, you gotta ask the question - would it happen enough to be worth doing? If the answer is yes, then go ahead. Otherwise, it isn't worth doing.

No chance in hell. Because if it would happen enough to be worth doing, then humanity has nothing to fear from such an impotent enemy.

[StellarRat]

They are tougher than any man ever and most probably have high reaction timing. They'll just leapfrog out of the way. it takes a fraction of one to push a button.

Really, they why can't they just leap frog out of the way of grenades, C4, and a guy running up to them with a stun baton??? Why don't they instantly kill a Xenonaut that's 6" away shocking the crap out of them with a stun baton??? Your argument does not hold water. Yeah, lots of people survive getting run over by all sorts of things, but lots of people don't and most don't walk away with no injuries.

As far as worth doing, I don't know. Maybe not in this go around. But if we're getting melee combat anyway, I certainly don't see why it couldn't be included.

Edited September 21, 2012 by StellarRat

[Gauddlike]

I would love to see the look on the drivers face the first time he tried this in one of the hover tanks.

Just floats on by over the Sebillians head like an angry metal cloud.

[StellarRat]

I would love to see the look on the drivers face the first time he tried this in one of the hover tanks.

Just floats on by over the Sebillians head like an angry metal cloud.

Yeah, that's a different case. Of course, if they only hover a couple feet off the ground are are moving at 150 mph that could really hurt.

[GoodGuyEddy]

grenades

Several seconds at best for the hunter to run them over. Grenade: so you'll notice it, you have a second to try to get away, plus blast radius.

C4

People don't lob those, no matter what CoD tells you. They are planted and then detonated, if you are in range and it detonates the you'd bretter be the flash to run away from that.

crap out of them with a stun baton

Probably becouse the electrical current makes their muscles contort and they physically can't do more but spaz out.

So uhh.. water.

And probably the true reason for all of it is: It's an abstraction.

I know you want to run them over i really do. But from a realism standpoint it's a dud and mechanicly it's a dud because it doesn't increase the tactical options enough to spend valuable development time while oh so many more things need to be done.