radister Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 And 50x50 is the smallest capital ships, does make you wonder just what is going to get thrown at us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasferatu Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I agree with the idea of having the smallest ships present but not enterable, the medium ships being enterable as normal and the large ships being two parter (though would still like an 'air-lock' if technically feasible). I don't think the consistency will be a big problem as the pre-mission text can say that its a two part jobby of securing the area around the big ship then doing whatever inside it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) The problem Chris stated in the OP wasn't that they didn't fit on the map but that the external shapes of the ships cause problems when trying to fit a tile based map inside them. Putting them on their own map wouldn't alter the situation. The solution he has come up with allows them to remove the external tiles from play to allow the internals to be designed without the constraints they put in place. It isn't perfect but no one else has made a suggestion that solves it any better. Any chance we could get a submap using one of the problem ship tiles to mess about with Chris? Might help people to visualise the problem if they can walk around in it. *edit* Forgot to add that if the full ship was on the map but you couldn't go inside it then you would be unable to see anything more than a wall anyway, you can't see what your troops are unable to see. Edited September 21, 2012 by Gauddlike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 @Void: If you are worried about "full presentation", couldn't they just have large ships tiles from first part be in different angles so that after multiple missions you can piece together what whole picture would look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidfoam Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) I did understand the problem with the shape an tiles. I thought if you placed the big ship on a map itself you could make the walls wider and make bigger gap between outside and inside. Then exterior art could be more separated from interior shape and limitations with the tile system. And yes i could consider any form of exterior representation of the ships. But the only thing i feel is not ok is to have them like a wall on the edge of the map. That would feel cheap an actually like a huge leap backwards from ufo EU and Tftd. I am quite convinced that alot of people not only me, feel as if this is a big part of this game. I really dont wanna keep the bigger ships only for viewing in Xenopedia artform. It lame. And i am sorry if my posts are coming of as rude or short. But i am driving a train while composing them. :-) Edited September 21, 2012 by Voidfoam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 And i am sorry if my posts are coming of as rude or short. But i am driving a train while composing them. :-) Well I didn't see that reason coming I have to admit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnarly Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 But i am driving a train while composing them. :-) LMAO..... Let's not ask if that's an acceptable work place practice? (was there not some airliner that overshot its destination because the pilots were too busy on their laptops?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidfoam Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Let's not ask if that's an acceptable work place practice? (was there not some airliner that overshot its destination because the pilots were too busy on their laptops?) Well actually its included in my work to be able to talk in telephone and text messages while i drive. Also to read timetables, and oversights of signal placements and so forth. Keep in mind i dont have too steer with a wheel. As long as i can keep a watchfull eye on the distance ahead of me, i am fine. Cant stop within a mile or two anyways . And lets stay on this gamechangeing topic shall we? Now that i gave it som thought i would also be well with say having half of this "too huge" ship stretching outside the combatzone, all but the hull being blacked out, and the rest reaching within the combatzone. Then you could still fight around atleast half of the hull on the map. And view the imposing ship in its full sieze at the same time. Then after you cleared the surroundings. Part 2 begins inside. Atleast i know what i am attacking and how it looks from the outside. Having only some tiles of it show at the end of the map is sorry to say, very cheap, and such a obvious shortcut. But still, preferably, i would like a two parter. If traditional X-com style is being irreversibly sloped. Second part then being breach and into the ship. Then you could still scout around the hull to find blastholes and cracks to enter through if it had been downed. But please! If you dont render the entire ship wtih tiles and interior, dont give me a little part of a Ufo tail at the end of a map to gather around, then letting me storm into anonymous gathering of rooms in a blavck void. Fine for a alien base, i guess its embedded in the ground. The Ufos you have created are fantastic. Atleast show the entire hulls, before we go inside. Edited September 21, 2012 by Voidfoam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Crow Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I like it, the only ships in XCom that were of any interest was the single occupant scout - as it wasn't just a big square of varying dimensions / height. If this means you can be more imaginative with the larger ships then I say go with it. In my mind the landscape to UFO interior transition would be something like: 1) Screen to respec your soldiers - replace sniper rifles etc with close in weapons and 'nades. 2) Drag soldiers to each breach point - Maybe a late game expensive single use breaching charge to create your own that adds an instant suppression to any aliens in the area. If there are flying suits like in the original perhaps a 'breach the ceiling' option? (This would also address an annoyance with base missions where your soldiers were all split up, at least they would be where you want them to be) 3) Select grenade types to breach with at each point, so you can go for a flash bang for surprise, or maybe just frag out. 4) Go Delta Team! This could also be used as a supplement to terror missions - rather than a city being attacked it could be a single government building, and reuse the breach mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Voidfoam - yes, obviously we'll make an effort to show the big UFOs and show their scale. But the point is, it'll be off map and you won't be able to interact with them. Then it's just a case of just painting a big static tile, which isn't too difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidfoam Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Ok then Chris. Maybe i missread you. But i was under the impression that only a small part of the big Ufos was going to be visable. If your intention is too show all of the enemy crafts in thier complete form -then i am settled with this new approach. Interaction was not my main concern if this is you new take. I just wanna se them, its ok if half is outside the map Edited September 21, 2012 by Voidfoam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Would it be possible to allow jump-pack equipped soldiers to enter via hull breaches on upper levels and have them begin the interior portion of the map in equivalent positions? They could secure elevators/staircases/teleporters from the above and spare the flightless soldiers some reaction fire as they emerge from lower levels. This could introduce some other tactical considerations in regards to potential secondary objectives in exchange for splitting up your troops. Could make the UFO entry more interesting as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzles Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) - Medium size UFOs like the Corvette and Scout would appear on the map in a crashed / landed form and not be enterable. However, on clearing the map you'd get a second interior breach mission. Is there really no compromise to be had on the Medium size? I think not being able to just enter them as expected *will* attract a lot of critism as it's not logical that it triggers a second mission. Thoughts along those lines were the reason why I suggested in my previous post the more complex option of having two ground combats running so you can flip between them in a live state. The bigger ones make sense, as do the tiny ones. Edited September 21, 2012 by Buzzles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvtbones Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 My concern about this, is the fact it could easily take away options from the player. if we are able to enter some soldiers through a airlock and some through a breech, while that be represented or will all of them be forced to load into the 'elevator room' and if semi-/random ship interiors are put it, that could also become an issue (half your troops loading on one side and another half on the opposite side, even though the entrance and breech were on the same side of the previous map) and what about injured soldiers, I usually run them back to to the Chinook to wait it out. Am I going to be forced to bring them along where they will be in harms way once more? I have some reservations but I'm willing to try it out and see what it's like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I still think that "Small ships can't be entered, medium ships can be just like in current game and large ships have two parter missions" sounds best, but assuming that medium ships will have two parter missions too, it seems like their size has to be upped and same about crew size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 There is only one medium-class UFO that qualifies to be able to "walk into" according to the limitations that Chris has described - the corvette, which is single-deck. When the corvette was originally revealed (back in 9.5 I think) there were complaints that a) the inside wasn't big enough and b) it wasn't multi-deck. There is, I believe, a strong expectation that UFOs will be multi-deck (although I dobn't believe that the UFOs in XCOM (which are quite large) are multi-deck). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendence Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I have been reading what has been posted, and I must confess, my thoughts coincide mostly with XenoMask. I would prefer: Non-enterable fighters and light scouts where one just clears the map. Scouts and Corvets to be enterable on map, as they are composed of only one or two rooms and don't seem to be causing problems thus far. And the larger crafts to be two parters as I see this to be a marvelous idea to be able to ensure a varied internal, an awe-inspiring external, and a good deal of flexibility. However, if possible, I would prefer to be able to enter the airlock/first room behind the crash opening, with a possibility of a couple aliens being in there, as I find the breaching was pretty important to me in the game. Otherwise, I love the idea of two-parters for the big ships. I hope a consensus can be reached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) There is only one medium-class UFO that qualifies to be able to "walk into" according to the limitations that Chris has described - the corvette, which is single-deck. When the corvette was originally revealed (back in 9.5 I think) there were complaints that a) the inside wasn't big enough and b) it wasn't multi-deck. There is, I believe, a strong expectation that UFOs will be multi-deck (although I dobn't believe that the UFOs in XCOM (which are quite large) are multi-deck). There is also scout.(small scout you can walk in, but its kind of like chinook, nothing interesting there, so you might as well not enter it or have ability to do it) I mean, yeah, scouts aren't that large, but they are first source of alien power source and if you can't enter them, you can't see it so only way to know whether its intact is if that part of ship is in flames or something. (Plus if you can't enter scout then you can't accidentally blow power source up when trying to shoot aliens cramped in same room resulting in deaths of your agent and aliens.) Edited September 21, 2012 by XenoMask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidfoam Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I feel that all crafts that are going to be "enterable" should handle it the same way. Inconsistency on this matter i feel wouldnt be a good thing, confusing. The corvettes can be made a tad bigger, they actually look a bit bigger in the interception fights. Then make them with maybe 3-4 rooms and a small hallway. Or maybe a single big room with some computers or chairs and stuff to quickly hide behind. There is no reason why fighting in the smaller crafts wouldnt be interesting. I for one loved the cruiser and large scout the best of all ships from Tftd and ole UFO. The largest like the battleship i was never overly exited about for som reason. Maybe this should be discussed also, interior Ufo design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) I personally don't think its going to be confusing. I mean, small ufos like fighters obviously don't have room for agents to enter(and probably only have pilot seats/whatever aliens pilot in), medium ones are large enough to be entered and large ones are so large that they deserve their own map, so only thing you need is mission brief text and maybe mention in manual how ufo size affects entering ufo. Edited September 21, 2012 by XenoMask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (although I dobn't believe that the UFOs in XCOM (which are quite large) are multi-deck).As far as XCOM the old series goes several of them had two decks. I don't remember for sure, but I think the motherships had three decks. You don't remember the elevator pads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Ah, I should have been more specific. I don't believe in XCOM:EU (the remake) the UFOs are multi deck, despite being (looking at the preview footage) quite large. Edited September 21, 2012 by Max_Caine changed aren't for are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Does this new one really count???? From what I've seen it is the Jar-Jar-Binx of XCOM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Sorry dude, but if XCOM:EU doesn't take off, and XCOM: the FPS does, then good luck seeing anything like the turn-based squad/platoon level game we all know and love ever coming back from 2K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegalad Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I agree with Max_Caine, besides XCOM:EU doesn't look that bad. It's just a different approach then Xenonauts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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