Jean-Luc Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 We want pancake stacks. I know a certain commissar who does in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I honestly thought that first game's ufos were lame Mainly because of the stacking thing and that they all looked fairly similar. Of course it helps that I played Apocalypse first which had surprisingly varied ufos despite them all being mushroom caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TornadoADV Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Chris is doing this because of engine code limitations, not because he's looking for a shortcut in someway. If somehow having to load in a second part of a mission for large alien craft ruins the game for you, how do you handle the Geoscape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Umm, who you are replying to? Anyway, I'm pretty much agreeing you on that I find it annoying how people are talking about it as if making UFOs different from first games ruins this game forever or something. I'd like to make a thread one day where people define what makes xcom xcom and it will probably not have that one particular thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeJumps Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 For me, X-Com is about freedom. Freedom to decide how to go about missions, base management and every aspect of running your unit. Forcing us to attack UFOs in set ways only limits those decisions- and that can't be a good thing, can it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raziel1981 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 There is another way around it now that i think of it - what if we break apart the exterior of the ufos into static multiple tiled blocks? That way we could avoid the 2 parters and keep the originalUFO designs. Possibly this could also allow multiple entrances as well if some parts of a UFO are blown up. As for the pancakes vs 2 parters, I'd take pancakes anyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dix Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Of course it helps that I played Apocalypse first which had surprisingly varied ufos despite them all being mushroom caps. This. The game also had some truly massive UFO's on the mission map, which often had small rooms, winding passageways, etc. instead of just being hollow up to the walls. For me, X-Com is about freedom. Freedom to decide how to go about missions, base management and every aspect of running your unit. Forcing us to attack UFOs in set ways only limits those decisions- and that can't be a good thing, can it? You've said it better than me. It also allows me to articulate my other concern with two part missions - it removes a lot of suspense, by allowing you to focus your entire team on only one set of objectives at a time, and as a consequence, a lot of the tension when you breach. All that being said, I don't think anyone is saying that 2-part missions would ruin the game (I'm going to be an addict, regardless). As said before, by many, Xenonauts is shaping up to be something special. And now I want pancakes for breakfast. Dammit. Edited October 5, 2012 by Dix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 There is another way around it now that i think of it - what if we break apart the exterior of the ufos into static multiple tiled blocks?That way we could avoid the 2 parters and keep the originalUFO designs. Possibly this could also allow multiple entrances as well if some parts of a UFO are blown up. As for the pancakes vs 2 parters, I'd take pancakes anyday. The problem isn't whether the UFO can be split into multiple parts, it's whether it can feasibly fit on the map. And when I say thqat I mean fit on the map, and have other stuff on the map as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Umm, you pretty much had to assault ufos in original in certain ways(landed ones, shot down ones sometimes had broken down walls) until you got blaster bombs and weapons good enough to breach them... Unless high explosives can do that. I dunno, I remember trying and them doing nothing. Anyway, point is, even the original doesn't have "Complete freedom". For me XCOM is about fighting variety of aliens(which can be cut up to learn stuff about their biology), stealing their stuff, researching their stuff, using their stuff against them and dying a lot while trying Oh and nice strategic layer and interception to an extent too, but mainly strategic layer + research + aliens. Plus immersion. Its not as much about deciding whether I blow up whole map with rockets or do it in normal way as much as its finding out best thing to do depending on situation.(And really, I want an option to blow up crashed ufos without mission without recovering anything, it feels crappy to let aliens go and when you are far enough in original game there are too many shot down ufos that doing them all gets boring D:<) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Most x-com ships had a single entrance unless they were damaged in the crash. Chris has said that this will be the same. If a UFO has been shot down and is damaged, there can be multiple entrances - the front door, and some (semi-random) hull breaches. If the UFO has landed intact, there's only the front door. The only difference really is that there are no blaster bomb type weapons capable of penetrating the hull of alien ships. This has always been the case with Xenonauts though and has not changed with this decision. Personally I would reduce the sizes of the ships, if the smallest capital ship is 50x50 then I think they are actually too large. If the largest were that sort of size then that would be great but the dreadnought looks like it could be easily double the size of the 50x50 cruiser. The missions would take forever and as smaller ship classes are phased out over the course of the game then you would only ever be assaulting the larger ships. I love this type of game but I am looking at those long treks with a certain amount of dread I would also not worry too much about every single tile inside the ships being a place that the player could walk. If the walls need to be 5 tiles thick to prevent problems but the ship is 40x40 then there is still plenty of space in there to fit rooms and a few atmospherically cramped corridors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 The important question regarding that quote is whether you can split up your guys to enter through multiple entrances/breaches at the same time or whether they all have to go through the same one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 It's just much neater if it's split in two. Plus that way you can use the multiple entrance points more easily as the game will allow you to split your troops between them in the set-up round before the second battle begins. If you do it as one map that's not possible. Doesn't really answer it but if you can use multiple entry points I would hope you would be able to access them from multiple external breaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dix Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Doesn't really answer it but if you can use multiple entry points I would hope you would be able to access them from multiple external breaches. I guess this would depend on wether the second internal map is generated based on the state of the first (ufo damage, soldier positions, etc.) We may need Chris to answer that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Doesn't really answer it but if you can use multiple entry points I would hope you would be able to access them from multiple external breaches. Oh yeah, forgot about that part. All I need now is for jump pack troops to be able to enter via potential breaches (or hangar bays?) on upper levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raziel1981 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 It seems I misunderstood the issues discussed in this thread. If the problem is that the bigger UFOs are to big then why not make bigger maps or just shrink the planned size of the bigger ufos? Seems pretty straight forward to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 It seems I misunderstood the issues discussed in this thread. If the problem is that the bigger UFOs are to big then why not make bigger maps or just shrink the planned size of the bigger ufos? Seems pretty straight forward to me. Problem is that some UFO tiles didn't work with multi floor ufos resulting in that they figured out that its better to have two parter mission with second one being inside the ufos. The thing about them being really large wasn't what was talked about. And I would prefer them to not shrink size of bigger ufos. You guys should already guess from the fact that Apocalypse is my favourite that I don't mind big maps even though I've noted its pain to move all units in original Well, you can move multiple units same time even in turn based mode on Apocalypse so thats why I don't mind large squads in huge maps there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 The original game used 60x60 on its biggest maps if I recall. TFTD was probably the same except sometimes you had two part missions. I don't know what apoc used as a maximum size. I don't remember ever playing a TFTD or x-com base mission, for example, and and thinking the map was too small. To sit one of the larger capital ships on the level at their current size you are looking at 80x80 or even bigger. That is a lot of ground to cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raziel1981 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 As for the multi floor ufos' tile issues - what I'd like to know is what is the nature of the problem with the aforementioned tiles. Maybe I missed it out at some point, but I can't say that I understand what's the actual problem with these tiles is. What does it actually mean that some tiles don't work with multilevel ufos? Is it a coding problem or an esthetics issue? There's numerous ideas here how to deal with the problem that these tiles present but I can't say I understand from the OP what is the actual problem with these tiles (yet). XenoMask I was a big fan of Apocalypse myself and I thought the huge UFOs were absolutely fantastic to play through and I'd certainly love seeing it in Xenonauts as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzz1010 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 what I'd like to know is what is the nature of the problem Only Chris know. We can only speculate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I guess aliens spawn inside them or see them or framerate issues or crashing or... Yeah, kind of hard to tell since he didn't tell what exactly is wrong with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betuor Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) I want him to finally get back and answer our questions. I also want him to see what was posted in his absence. cough: return of the king :cough Edited October 7, 2012 by Betuor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzz1010 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 And the last (fan-art)picture of boat for dessert. There also must be third level with six fighters, fourth with landing zone and further but I think the idea is already clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidfoam Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 zzz1010, seeing those fanmade pics of yours and then realizing i will never be able to breach such epic ufos, makes me a sad panda. Very nice work- dont do more now pls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreny Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Hello there, I have created poll about this topic http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/3288-unofficial-POLL-UFOs-Being-Horrible so if You want, You can vote there about decission Chris made. Maybe it will be good feedback on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 How can you possibly vote with so little information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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