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    Thread: Permanent death no !

    1. #21
      Resident Scavenger Swe_Racoon's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by thothkins View Post
      are you saying that he's going to strangle an alien with the intestines of one of it's comrades? Jeez, no wonder they don't like us much
      Of course, while knifing the third alien and shooting a fourth. They wanna genocide us, we'll genocide them right back!
      When faced with danger, when beset by doubt; run in circles, wave your arms and shout.

      Quote Originally Posted by thothkins View Post
      But it nice to pop into such a friendly forum and know that we're all pulling in the same direction. friendship, courtesy and respect. What more could you ask for? Oh, and moonshine in a can... and snus...

    2. #22
      +1 perma-death!!!!! XCOM would not be what it is without perma-death.

      You always have a Save option to 'rewind' if necessary.... Didn't save before losing your level 20 elite sniper major???? Then time to recruit/train up a new one!! and be more cautious with him/her/it (? will we get android cross-breeds or something?? ;D) next time.

    3. #23
      the ufo: X games were a big let down with their non endless supply of troops at your disposal, in a game like that i can see having your soldiers getting knocked out instead of dying (i dislike the term permadeath).

      the biggest factor in xcom is the equipment being used, you retain the tech level, and might even recover the equipment itself, so the loss of a troop, no matter how elite is significantly different than the games that actually coined the term permadeath (JRPGs). in those games when your character died it was game over, have to restart from the beginning, this game is nowhere close to that.

      so all in all, no this game does not have permadeath, though it does have death. why doesn't it have permadeath? because you only suffer an experience and money loss with each death. if you compare this game to diablo 1 (a western RPG which isn't considered to have permadeath, aside from hardcore mode) you can see that only the ufo: X games had permadeath. what you are asking for is somewhere between godmode and just plain old death, sometimes referred to as the party death system (only death of the entire party results in any penalty what so ever).

    4. #24
      Commander thothkins's Avatar
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      It's certainly death as far as the soldier's grieving relatives are concerned though. Cdr Gauddlike (curiously shot poking around in the back of the Chinook) isn't coming back into the game, so it's pretty permanent as far as he's concerned.

      I agree that it's nowhere near a game over scenario. You can always reload the game here, which for me means it's not really permadeath either. Considering the lack of skills that really make the soldiers stand out, it's hard to imagine any of the losses being irreplaceable. That's one of the benefits of having a pool of soldiers to advance.
      "...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."

    5. #25
      Moderator Gauddlike's Avatar
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      Permadeath on an individual soldier level rather than on a game level is what the OP was referring to.
      True permadeath only really works where you as the player are represented by an avatar in the game world.
      If you were shown in the base when the aliens attacked and they could kill you then that should be permanent.
      As it stands none of the ground troops are representing the player so it doesn't matter so much when they get killed.
      The player is a disembodied entity that can't be interacted with and therefore killed.
      You can of course be beaten but only by losing your funding or having your ability to perform your role taken away.
      Devil's Advocate and forum moderator

    6. #26
      How would a non-"permadeath" system work? Would you be required to stock up on Phoenix Down potions before every mission?

      the biggest factor in xcom is the equipment being used, you retain the tech level, and might even recover the equipment itself, so the loss of a troop, no matter how elite is significantly different than the games that actually coined the term permadeath (JRPGs). in those games when your character died it was game over, have to restart from the beginning, this game is nowhere close to that.
      Yeah, if you take death out of a strategy game you're throwing both the immersion and difficulty out the window. This isn't an episode of Lassie or MacGuyver where you know your heroes will pull through and survive, it's a gritty fight to the death with an extraterrestrial invasion.

      (Also, not to rub it in, but) Wow, never before have I seen a three page thread with absolutely no one agreeing with the OP .

    7. #27
      WishfullThinker Gorlom's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
      How would a non-"permadeath" system work? Would you be required to stock up on Phoenix Down potions before every mission?

      Yeah, if you take death out of a strategy game you're throwing both the immersion and difficulty out the window. This isn't an episode of Lassie or MacGuyver where you know your heroes will pull through and survive, it's a gritty fight to the death with an extraterrestrial invasion.

      (Also, not to rub it in, but) Wow, never before have I seen a three page thread with absolutely no one agreeing with the OP .
      In a non permadeath version the killed soldiers would merely be knocked out and unavailable for a while (longer then merely healing the damage I think). Didn't Extraterrestrials try this method? I know some X-com clone did. Maybe it was afterlight? As I recall that game didn't have any soldier recruitment screen. you just got 2 new "soldiers" as they came of age... Then lost one as he retired.


      Didn't we have a thread where everyone disagreed with the OP because he wanted to have underwater missions since UFO:TFTD according to him had both land and underwater UFO recovery missions? (turned out he was playing a mod)

    8. #28
      Alien Smasher raidsoft's Avatar
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      There have indeed been a few "X-Com" like games that used non-perma death on their soldiers, they were all fairly terrible in comparison to X-Com as well unfortunately (imo)

      It took a mod for UFO: Extraterrestrials to enable permadeath for that game and it along with a bunch of other changes made it a MUCH more enjoyable experience though and actually not that bad.

    9. #29
      Moderator Gauddlike's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
      (Also, not to rub it in, but) Wow, never before have I seen a three page thread with absolutely no one agreeing with the OP .
      I agree completely and wholeheartedly with the OP.
      There, sorted that out for you

      For a game with small numbers of characters who are required to be around for the story to progress it can work.
      Can't really thrown them into the grinder.
      I still dislike it though because of the removal of perceived risk.
      It is a bit of a lazy way to do things as well.
      Devil's Advocate and forum moderator

    10. #30
      Commander thothkins's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Gorlom View Post
      Didn't we have a thread where everyone disagreed with the OP because he wanted to have underwater missions since UFO:TFTD according to him had both land and underwater UFO recovery missions? (turned out he was playing a mod)
      Wasn't that NastyNative? let me see...Underwater Missions


      I thought Gorlom drowned him in the end

      Perhaps Gauddlike can nip over there and agree with something, just to ensure we don;t have a thread where everyone is mean to the OP.

      Extraterrestrials suffered for a lack of dead soldiers. It changed how you approached things tactically, how you approached risk generally, and removed a fair bit of immersion from the game.

      I'd still recommend it, with the mods, for anyone who hasn't played it. I enjoyed it.
      "...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."

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