Chris' Amazing Balance Patch V1!

[Gauddlike]

Although if you wanted to spend just a little coder time on it Chris I wouldn't mind a slider that can be adjusted in the options during a game to adjust the projectile speeds.

A little multiplier may not be too hard to do

[Chris]

I've abandoned the slow projectile idea. It really annoyed me after the first few missions so they're back up to normal speed. I'm gonna put this patch out on the experimental branch today if I can, and I'll separate out the old balance and fixes from the new balance on Monday if the build is stable.

I just played a light scout mission and lost 7 of my 8 soldiers to five aliens, one of the most fun missions I've played in a long time. The aliens are DEADLY, even the noncoms. I've put the cover modifier up to 75% from 50%, and I think the extra TU makes flanking much more viable than before. Half of the deaths were because I got careless and the aliens made me pay for it, which is something we've been trying to get them to do for a while...so I'm pleased with how it's working so far (but I'll listen to what you guys have to say about it before I make any final decisions).

[Skitso]

Nice, sounds fun! Can't wait to try it myself.

[Solver]

On the train home now, hope you can upload it soon

[GlyphGryph]

This is sounding pretty good. Looking forward to trying it out.

[StellarRat]

I just played a light scout mission and lost 7 of my 8 soldiers to five aliens, one of the most fun missions I've played in a long time. The aliens are DEADLY, even the noncoms. I've put the cover modifier up to 75% from 50%, and I think the extra TU makes flanking much more viable than before. Half of the deaths were because I got careless and the aliens made me pay for it, which is something we've been trying to get them to do for a while...

Hmm...I'll have to try it. I'm a bit worried because I don't think 50% casualties are sustainable (the ones that you didn't screw up on.) What about the humans? Are they more dangerous too? Or just the aliens? Did you have lasers and Wolf or better? I can live with higher losses at the start as long as my tech starts to turn the tide.

[legit1337]

Hmm...I'll have to try it. I'm a bit worried because I don't think 50% casualties are sustainable (the ones that you didn't screw up on.) What about the humans? Are they more dangerous too? Or just the aliens? Did you have lasers and Wolf or better? I can live with higher losses at the start as long as my tech starts to turn the tide.

This.

[Chris]

You'll have to play it before you comment, I'm afraid. You may also have to wait until Monday, because I'm remaking the Light Scout maps at the moment because I think they're too big now I've reduced the number of aliens in them. That's quite a big job!

[Solver]

You may also have to wait until Monday

Probably also no chance of save compatibility for your balance patch and current v20?

[legit1337]

For what it's worth. If you are messing with the stats of aliens I think alien non-coms should have 0 armor.

They aren't combatants, why should they be wearing combat armor?

[StellarRat]

For what it's worth. If you are messing with the stats of aliens I think alien non-coms should have 0 armor.

They aren't combatants, why should they be wearing combat armor?

Ah, because they know people might try to shoot them? Landing on a hostile planet is a dangerous business even for computer techs, reporters and engineers. Those CNN reporters have vests on in war zones.

[kraex]

Ah, because they know people might try to shoot them? Landing on a hostile planet is a dangerous business even for computer techs, reporters and engineers. Those CNN reporters have vests on in war zones.

But E.T. was naked. I think it's far more likely the noncoms are botanists than they are reporters.

[Myrmuzduur]

All the Aliens are clone slaves in service to the Praetors right?

I think the non-coms are just worker drones, the rest are soldier drones. I doubt they have personalities or careers.

[kraex]

All the Aliens are clone slaves in service to the Praetors right?

I think the non-coms are just worker drones, the rest are soldier drones. I doubt they have personalities or careers.

You just took all the joy out of blasting them in the face. I'm going to neglect your logic and imagine that each one has a wife and kids back home.

[legit1337]

Ah, because they know people might try to shoot them? Landing on a hostile planet is a dangerous business even for computer techs, reporters and engineers. Those CNN reporters have vests on in war zones.

Also for the fact that the sprites for non-coms have no armor showing. And the caesan autopsy picture (which is a picture of a caesan non-com being dissected) he is just wearing the alien's version of clothes.

[Commissar Pancakes]

You just took all the joy out of blasting them in the face. I'm going to neglect your logic and imagine that each one has a wife and kids back home.

A Xeno is a Xeno is a Xeno.

Just be happy with ridding Holy Terra of the scum.

[jeon]

Non-coms don't have armor. As a matter of fact, Caesans don't have armor at any rank. Sebs start with 5 armor which I assume is due to scales and slowly work their way up to a whopping 16 armor at elites. Androns go from 10-32. Nothing else has any armor. So, even a basic sniper rifle has 20 mitigation which means it ignores armor of everything except higher ranked androns. When you get lasers your sniper rifle is at 30 mitigation and ignores pretty much even the strongest armor. The extra mitigation in tiers past that only has the effect of making your shots more deadly to your own soldiers.

[Belmakor]

Non-coms don't have armor. As a matter of fact, Caesans don't have armor at any rank. Sebs start with 5 armor which I assume is due to scales and slowly work their way up to a whopping 16 armor at elites. Androns go from 10-32. Nothing else has any armor. So, even a basic sniper rifle has 20 mitigation which means it ignores armor of everything except higher ranked androns. When you get lasers your sniper rifle is at 30 mitigation and ignores pretty much even the strongest armor. The extra mitigation in tiers past that only has the effect of making your shots more deadly to your own soldiers.

Unless of course that 20 and 30 value are percentages of total armour?

[Dead Dread]

1) TU move cost reduced from 4 to 3, other move costs lowered proportionally - Since i move from cover to cover, this wont really have an effect until breaching where you can more easily run to door, fire, retreat.

2) Cover effectiveness reduced by 50% (so it provides 20-25% protection) - This will significantly change the gameplay. At the moment getting my guys in cover is priority 1, Then i either nuke the enemy cover with Rockets &/or go for a flankong maneuver. Reduced cover will give first shot a significant advantage as you have a good chance of hitting even if the enemy is bunkered down, no need to panic retreat or risk running around the sides.

3) Greater range of soldier stats - This i like, should add variety and make some soldier choices poor and others much better. I would also add atimer to the recruitment screen for filling in new soldiers, maybe 24hrs?

4) Weapon accuracy increased, but zoom level spread reduced - Weapons already seem to be deadly accurate. in fact with my near rookie soldiers i am rarely adding 1 level of extra aiming as chance to hit is already at maximum. not sure why you think it needs upping again?

5) Aliens are less numerous and less tough - Well if they are more deadly this may follow, id have to see the effects of improved ai before i comment.

6) Aliens are significantly more dangerous - YES,YES,YES. This should be at number 1. At the moment they are too passive, dont use buildings effectively (i have seen them in a supermarket but they didnt come out or fire even as i strafed the place repeatedly for 10 rounds until id destroyed enough shelves to get clear shots on them), dont use rooftops, dont fire often enough, do lots of silly random cover changes.

Hoping for the best!

[Serker]

1) Standard moving range begins from ten squares and goes up to 25 now, I think it is a lot already.

2) It will just favor standing behind corners and outranging more; as well as using stacks of flashbangs and electroshocks and making holes in walls. I won't say it is bad, but IMO cover system could use more subtle balancing than just making it more annoying than important. Perhaps make it that cover right in front of target would keep 50-75% efficiency, with everything else on the line going down to 20-25%? Maybe making cover more brittle and adjusting shooting system so missed alien shots would ruin xenonaut cover real fast. Maybe some change to plasma cannon penetration value, because Xenopedia says it burns through fifteen inches of steel, when on battlefield it barely even damages anything except for civilians.

3) And who will want soldier with 30 accuracy? But other than that, it will be great. But soldier progression speed need a lot of tweaking imo. Besides, I think it'll need some extra programming to introduce some sort of soldier overall points cap, to make sure there will be no bums with 30 points in everything and no supermen with 70 in everything.

4) With cover reduced, it won't end well. Like, everyone will hit all the time. See p.2 about out-ranging and flashbangs.

5) Smaller saucers definitely could go with less aliens.

6) This is always most welcome. It will be very interesting to look at how things will work with fixed AI. About running close more frequently: with cover efficiency reduction, these attacks will be much harder to stop. It may even be exploitable when putting some men close, but out of line of sight, and placing entire team further in clear view.

[TrashMan]

1) Aliens being able to take 3-4 bullets (without any armor) sounds OK in my book. After all, a normal human can take the same.

2) Alien armor should play a bigger role. In other words, not makign aliens tough by boosting HP for everoyne, but by having a balance of HP and armor... and the same for exenonauts weapons, where armor migation and damage are also balanced, so one can have a vast array of weapons and tactics.

[Solver]

What "normal human" can take 3-4 bullets without armor? Okay, if you're talking small caliber like 9mm, it is possible to survive 3 bullets that do not hit internal organs, but still, a controlled pair of 9mm pistol shots to center mass would at the very least put someone out of the fight and into the hospital seriously wounded.

As for bullets from proper assault rifles, forget it. Even a shot that causes a non-lethal wound would put you out of the fight.

[Ol' Stinky]

3) And who will want soldier with 30 accuracy? But other than that, it will be great. But soldier progression speed need a lot of tweaking imo. Besides, I think it'll need some extra programming to introduce some sort of soldier overall points cap, to make sure there will be no bums with 30 points in everything and no supermen with 70 in everything.

I'd take a rookie with 30 ACC but good TUs and STR if I needed a shieldbearer. I already recruit people by highest TUs as it is.

The beginning stats stuff isn't avaible to mod right now, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be too tricky for Chris to change it from the current ~50-60 to ~30-70. The stat cap is there in gameconfig.xml, so it would be even easier to cap APs at (say) 75-80.

[Serker]

The beginning stats stuff isn't avaible to mod right now' date=' but I'd imagine it wouldn't be too tricky for Chris to change it from the current ~50-60 to ~30-70. The stat cap is there in gameconfig.xml, so it would be even easier to cap APs at (say) 75-80.[/quote']

It will be good to cap APs at 80, it is quite solid and won't magically make veteran act twice as fast as "rookee" with long service list and pre-project combat experience. Soldier progression rate should be upped to two-three points per mission - right now it is too slow to be much of importance. At least for TUs.

By the way, there seem to be a bug in soldier progress. I modded max points in all stats to 100(round numbers ftw) and allowed up to 2 extra TUs per mission. Soldiers capped at 102 for some reason, I even saw soldier going from 101 TU to 102 after one mission. I then modded max TU to 98, and other soldiers capped at 100. After that I allowed three points of accuracy per mission with max 97, and assumed they'll max at 100 again. They maxed at 99.

[Max_Caine]

Solider progression is current set to +1 (with the exception of TU, and HP, I think) because others have pointed out how exploitable the current system of stat progression is. Without a different system in place, I don't think Chris is likely to change it.