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Max_Caine

So, who wants more cool aliens?

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In this thread there was lots of discussion about cool looking aliens. Apat from the usual Xenonauts suspects, what would you like to see in X2? 

 

EDIT: That;s a point - continuity. It's clear that whil X2 is not a direct sequel to X1, there is continuity of character in terms of the alien races you'll fight. Do#you think that's a good thing, or does continutiy stifle creativity? Does the Sebillian and the Andron help to make Xenonauts what it is? 

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Posted (edited)

There are cool Ideas which Xenonauts 2 could use from XCOM2 WotC and Phoenix Point.

Robotic Aliens we have already in Xenonauts 2 and many similar organic to X-Com / XCOM2 too. What´s the Alternative?

I personaly would like to have some Guerilla Groups which give you a additional challange. The best Example is the EXALT-Group from XCOM: Enemy Within or as atm newest Example the 3 Factions from Phoenix Point.

But such things we should only implement in an DLC or if nessecarry in the Early Access Development. But before everything from the Game and Main-Parts we test in the Beta-Version must be stable and the Nerve Bolts on Steam have their light Early Access (max. 6 Month playtime like we have in Beta atm) to have Quiet again for more Development and Beta-Testing.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Alienkiller

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I would like to see some very different and interesting aliens. After all the aliens have a galaxy to draw from for recruits. One of the things I enjoyed about UFO Exterrestrials was the variety of aliens. I do not think a strict continuity is necessary. Creativity is vital and this is a fantasy type game. So let your imagination run wild.

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Contentious topic: realists versus the fantasists. My take is that if you're going to make a sci-fi game, then make sci-fi enemies.

There is definitely scope for a theme where the aliens use mundane looking foot soldiers that are cloned humans (plays into the secret war and explains how the enemies can survive in the environment). But I'd be disappointed if there were nothing that looked startlingly alien once you get past the front-line troops. Ideally, the big boss type aliens would be something really monstrous, something that picks up on anxieties around the way insects move or the the visceral grossness of internal organs. 

In that other thread I think someone mentioned breaking the norm of aliens being two-armed, gun-toting bipeds. Androns could certainly get an update to look like the T1 model from Terminator, although even that has something of the human upper body about it. Sebillians did have a good effect of looking tough, but they also gave off vibes of a crocodile wearing half a suit of armour. I think you've got to lean one way or the other. Either it is a bio-engineered somewhat nonsensical fighter species (like a Reaper) or it is a regular tool-using species that grew up the old fashioned way, in which case it has to have some kind of hand(s) and sensory organs but you can go wild other than that. 

I think the things to avoid are the drooling types (like in Alien) or the types that are so clearly a blend of some animal and a human (like a lot of Star Wars races).

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To be honest I prefer the X1 Caesan than new one, the X2 one is more cartoonish and i still think a slim little grey man is authentically better than some pet-like goblins considering the background settings. X1 alien races did a really good job and i cant see why changing them. 

I did like to see more human enemies like enemy within, the idea of fighting human terrorists can let you take a break from fighting endless waves of Reapers and Androns, and i really like to see the lore of such organisation if they have any.

Also I'm having an idea of doing alien vehicle, so instead of always fighting foots soldiers and grunts, you can also destroy alien APCs and alien Tanks, It would be interesting if the aliens bring their own tanks to the party, although this might be impossible because even human vehicles are cut from the current build.

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As long as the aliens are grounded and not too "out-there", the game should be fine

Basically no codexes or watchers from XCOM 2

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Me me I want more aliens!:D

Most of the current aliens in the game now are fine some like the Sebilians are great redesigns. But I have to agree that the design of the ceasan as it is now is a little bit too cartoonish to my taste. They just really don’t look threatening at all.

My conception of the invaders is a coalition of different slave races under the thrall of the Praetor civilization. Based on the heavy usage of genetic engineering and cybernetic implants within the aliens even from the first game. I think the devs should add more alien species to create more varieties in gameplay.

On 5/13/2020 at 2:22 AM, Ninothree said:

In that other thread I think someone mentioned breaking the norm of aliens being two-armed, gun-toting bipeds. Androns could certainly get an update to look like the T1 model from Terminator, although even that has something of the human upper body about it. Sebillians did have a good effect of looking tough, but they also gave off vibes of a crocodile wearing half a suit of armour. I think you've got to lean one way or the other. Either it is a bio-engineered somewhat nonsensical fighter species (like a Reaper) or it is a regular tool-using species that grew up the old fashioned way, in which case it has to have some kind of hand(s) and sensory organs but you can go wild other than that. 

I think the only requirement for the aliens is two just being able to carry weapons and some interesting mechanics added on. Aside from the moties and eosapien concepts I posted in the last thread, I do have a few more.

First is just some kind of creature that resembles the fallout floaters. Weak, can only attack using electric tentacles but there’s a lot of them and is used by the aliens like scouts or attack dogs. They should be used along side the ceasans as the early game canon fodder.

Next some type of shapeshifter or alien hybrids in the same vein of the thin men of the X-Com reboot. Just to enhance the feel of the secret war and infiltration missions. They can be mildly human but some higher ranking one by mid-game can just turn themselves into more alien forms as the second phase could be fun.

The Androns and other drones could be retcon to have tiny aliens controlling them from the inside like the tiny aliens from the first MiB.

Maybe we can have aliens that came from water worlds that lives containment suits. Aliens that are made of crystals that rather than using weapons can shoot out diamond like projectiles. Or even modular creatures that fell apart into multiple smaller aliens when injured. The possibilities are endless.

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First of all to get out of the conventional mold, there really should be some kind of alien that have multiple limbs or different vision cones. More legs like centaur alien or more arms so that the alien could use multiple weapons at the same time. Also I think that having a humanoid alien would be perfectly fine as long as the design is just some anthropomorphic animal like the Sebilian or just rubber-headed aliens like the Harridan. Something like the Wraith could be good if they have more limbs. Take a look at this Drii for instance.9F2FEE46-CD54-4F04-AB27-6480776E570B.thumb.jpeg.567a203874032e87d30e1789e3501b05.jpeg

On 5/15/2020 at 8:28 AM, Comrade said:

As long as the aliens are grounded and not too "out-there", the game should be fine

Basically no codexes or watchers from XCOM 2

Man you have no idea how much I hate the concept of the codex in general. It’s both boring and somehow lore breaking at the sametime. Wow! A digital alien! How unique of of them to just have a human with weird texture!

On 5/8/2020 at 3:46 PM, Alienkiller said:

I personaly would like to have some Guerilla Groups which give you a additional challange. The best Example is the EXALT-Group from XCOM: Enemy Within or as atm newest Example the 3 Factions from Phoenix Point.

 

I think the need for a human enemy to fight could be easily addressed with the reintroduction of the Cold War setting. By your decision of help either the NATO or the Warsaw Pact in tech sharing and covert missions, one side will get increasingly hostile to the point of actively helping the aliens. By the end you would have to completely wipe out one faction to finally unite humanity in the war if you choose this path. The NATO or Soviet you fight will will have different tech and weapons coming from their regional bonuses.

But this is entirely your choice. You can choose to help both equally (with the penalty being you will not get unique scientists, soldiers, factional technology and subsequently their exclusive weapons) to avoid fighting human enemies and only fight the aliens. Your decision will not only change the course of the war against the aliens but the future of the Earth as well.

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On 5/14/2020 at 7:52 AM, EurekaSeven said:

Also I'm having an idea of doing alien vehicle, so instead of always fighting foots soldiers and grunts, you can also destroy alien APCs and alien Tanks, It would be interesting if the aliens bring their own tanks to the party, although this might be impossible because even human vehicles are cut from the current build.

I guess you're probably not playing the Experimental branch builds, then? Because there's a human vehicle in those. The Xenonauts definitely will have vehicles, and there's probably going to be some kind of alien drones in the game much like in X1.

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I must admit I do somewhat struggle with ideas for aliens these days. I think there's room for more aliens in X2 but the problem is that not only must an alien look interesting and visually distinctive (but also in some way consistent with our existing aliens), but they have to have an interesting gameplay mechanic associated with them.

The "fallout floater" aliens mentioned a couple of posts above are something that could work, but in general most of the ideas I have boil down to "alien with a gun" and there's a limit to how many of those you can fit in the game before they all start to blend together.

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I suspose if you could boil it down to 1-2 word archetypes, thne you could look at the archetype and see if there's a room for it. Like...

 

The Buffer

The Debuffer

The Minelayer/Trapper

The Exploding One

The Tsundere (get over here! wait, stay away!)

The Healer

The Alarm Bell/Radar

The Terrain Alterer

The Networker

The DOT/Drainer/Exsanginator

The Burner/Gasser

The Powers-Up-When-Hurt

The Cheapshot Ambusher

 

and so on and so forth. 

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Posted (edited)

I was really a fan of the x1 Caesans, I really like how they were very similar to the "real" grey aliens, I think it adds a nice bridge between the game's setting and real life while also raising some interesting implications (maybe the conspiracy nuts were right in the Xenonauts universe?)

I also like having at least one or two clean and "professional" looking common enemies, like the x1 Caesans, Harridans, and Wraiths. I think it's a nice reminder that the enemy, while capable of making beastly, terroristic forces, is also dominant in its ability to field large numbers of organized, professional, highly skilled forces. It makes me feel like the aliens really are dominant in all spheres, and that the only way to really beat them is to get creative, carefully choose engagement situations, and figure out how to use the aliens' advantages against them.

In terms of mechanics, I think enabling more advanced behavior when different tiers of officers are on the map would be cool. Maybe some aliens are working together to press your position from two sides, and running a guy around back to disable their officer makes them less cohesive (for instance, maybe when the officer is present, some units provide covering fire and others advance, and when he's gone they act more independently).

Edited by Col. Flanders
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Chris said:

I guess you're probably not playing the Experimental branch builds, then? Because there's a human vehicle in those. The Xenonauts definitely will have vehicles, and there's probably going to be some kind of alien drones in the game much like in X1.

Yeah I'm not in the Experimental branch so i have to wait for EA for now :(

Although I'm refering to large manned (or in higher tier unmanned) vehicle in my post, from the previous comments in several posts I had the impression that the "Vehicle" you're refering to (is it called THOR or something?) is more of a small or medium size combat robot (as well as the alien drones in X1) instead of the big armoured dudes in X1, correct me if i'm wrong though. i'M not asking about "must have" in X2 (to be honest i never thought this would get attention by you and rest of the devs), I'm just saying that I really like the armoured vehicle in X1 and it could be good if Alien have same kind of equipment, but i wont be disappointed if they dont either. 

Edited by EurekaSeven

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6 hours ago, Col. Flanders said:

I was really a fan of the x1 Caesans, I really like how they were very similar to the "real" grey aliens, I think it adds a nice bridge between the game's setting and real life while also raising some interesting implications (maybe the conspiracy nuts were right in the Xenonauts universe?)

Yes, same reason why i love the X1 Caesans design as well as the air combat system, it did gave me the feeling of connecting the xenonauts events to a real world scenario as linking them with historical incidents of human military detect or encounter the UAPs, playing a scenario that may really happen if the conspiracies are not that wrong.

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@Chris Yeah, I always think that the enemy design in X1 as something that needs to be carryover to X2. The first game’s alien had a distinctive cleanliness to them that make them resemble early sci-fi aliens designed by Wayne Barlowe and old 50s magazine aliens.

But an enemy can be distinctive in their behavior as well as unique role in the battle. For instance the smart AI of the psychic soldiers in FEAR make a relatively boring enemy (grunts with guns) into something that drew in players time and time again. Or even the Stalkers in Dead Space 2 with how they work in pairs of two to distract and attack the player made them the most memorable part of that game.

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Aliens also can be made distinct by having exclusive weapons that made them into a specialized class of enemy. That way just having enemy with a gun isn’t a big issue. For instance the enemy I suggested a previous thread being always floating and can shoot while flying (basically a beefed up Harridan) and can see through walls, should only get close range weapons like the plasma carbine, flame thrower and melee weapon. Or the alien with multiple arms can only use heavy weapon like the cannon and the heavy machine gun. Or the snake like enemies can turn invisible but can only attack you up close. That would certainly make them more memorable.

11 hours ago, Max_Caine said:

 

I suspose if you could boil it down to 1-2 word archetypes, thne you could look at the archetype and see if there's a room for it.

 

This is also a good design philosophy. I also suggest we make some aliens straight upgrades of the already existing aliens.

- Harridan (flying sniper) -> Eosapien (flying heavy)

- Andron -> Drones, Tanks

- Sebilian -> Snake aliens

- Ceasan -> Alien hybrids 

Some archetypes like the healer (worms in a containment suit like the Halo series Hunters), AoE damaging field enemy (alien that is a humanoid pile of radioactive crystals), enemy with different stages (huge modular alien that break apart once damaged enough), buffer (giant humanoid slugs with flame weapons that can increase nearby enemies APs and make them immune to suppression), melee specialists (giant insectoid alien that break through doors and walls and carry grenades),... should be a must.

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While these seem like well thought out ideas, lets remember Xenonauts is a grounded game

If I saw an eldritch abomination, my immersion would break immediately because that's not how the aliens look

Also slamming as many "cool" weapons as you can doesn't really make combat more interesting. Often times by adding too many types of alien all of them become less unique.

I urge caution and moderation when adding new enemies.

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On 6/7/2020 at 12:59 AM, Comrade said:

While these seem like well thought out ideas, lets remember Xenonauts is a grounded game

I have to respectfully disagree with the notion that X1 is anyway grounded. We have the aliens using teleportation as elevators but no usage in weapons. We have the Reapers that have growth rate straight up ignore the laws of thermodynamics and biology. We have teleportation implants for the Wraiths but no teleporting bombs or guns. We have psychic powers. With all of these technology and the ability to travel FTL, an actual grounded scenario would be quite boring as it will end with the aliens winning over humanity using divide and conquer tactics like the British did in India (they’d just fund different factions to fight amongst ourselves). Unless the aliens are something like refugees that only conquer earth out of desperation that is.

On 6/7/2020 at 12:59 AM, Comrade said:

Also slamming as many "cool" weapons as you can doesn't really make combat more interesting. Often times by adding too many types of alien all of them become less unique.

This is true. I think at best we should only add at most five new aliens while actually focusing on making more variety out of their equipment. I would love to see the aliens with sealed power armor, energy shield, healing kits, mines and support weapons such as artillery.

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I like the premise of XCOM which is that rather than have a Covenant style alliance of aliens (which I still enjoy too), they're basically a bunch of failed experiments. This allows you to have some weird designs which maybe aren't particularly grounded, but they exist because of the meddling of a powerful civilization and kept around to act as a measuring stick against future experiments.

As an aside, I think people are misunderstanding what the Codex was. It's basically an AI that can deploy a holographic defense barrier allowing it to act in the physical world rather than over a network. It's like a smartphone that can attack people when they fail the thumbprint scanner. I suspect they were created as part of the occupation for some sort of purpose (monitoring or assisting the Advent troops?) so they have a humanoid shape. It's entirely possible that it originally WAS an attempt to digitize humans which failed and was repurposed for data protection.

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37 minutes ago, indaris said:

I like the premise of XCOM which is that rather than have a Covenant style alliance of aliens (which I still enjoy too), they're basically a bunch of failed experiments.

Yes but this premise would be more fitting for aliens that are so out of our scope that the prospect of even fighting one is impossible. A simple action of forgetting their toys on a random world can cause untold destruction. Things like the aliens from Roadside Picnic, Ian Bank’s Culture, the Xeelee from Xeelee Sequence or the Halo Forerunners. For instance:

39 minutes ago, indaris said:

It's basically an AI that can deploy a holographic defense barrier allowing it to act in the physical world rather than over a network.

Yeah I know this, but with the level of technology needed to support such a thing, it would seem completely unreasonable to not mass produce the thing and drown any opponents in digital corpses rather than using the same troop type or just give everyone teleportation. The energy requirements for a single Codex would be so massive that it could be used for any purpose and destroy a planet based force like the XCOM with a flick of a wrist. Its existence create a huge plot hole and lore inconsistencies that ruins the setting. The Forerunners when they got such a tech was able to make their entire arsenal to holographic soldiers (hard light) with hundreds of thousands of nigh-indestructible ships, bilions of planet cracking drones, trillions of War Sphinxs that can atomize continents.

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Nice Idea like I said. I think with Modding we will get some cool Stuff too, after Modding is for the Final Versions Ready.

We have to see. I think Chris and his Team will bring in some more cool Stuff as we can see yet. Some of the Existing Races have 2 or 3 Versions (Soldier, Engeneer, Commander), the Chryssalyds 1 (its an Posion Egg-Laying Animal), some Robot-Versions (atm we see the Andron and the Flying Saucer) and 2 more Races (Wraith and one more).

From what I heard, we will get Special Missions against brainwashed Humans and Soldiers (which are Working for the Aliens), which is the newest cool Stuff I have heard.

If that´s working correctly (atm in Version 13 Beta it dosen´t), we will see what more Goldhawk has from cool Aliens and other Enemys have in the Backhand.

 

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Uniquness for uniqueness serves no purpose. Trying to create "original" aliens can backfire.

No, I don't think every alien needs unique mechanics/skills/powers. In fact, I hate that concept, as it feels too game-y, too artificial.

 

Then again, it depends. On the setting/universe, the feel and so on.

For Xenonauts 2, given it's setting/atmosphere, I'm more for the down-to-earth, believable aliens.

Everyone and their grandmother does the organic, body horror aliens these days. Shape shifters, mutations and transformations? MEh. Garbage IMHO.

 

And yes, the CODEX was EXTREEMLY stupid.

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Dunno, I quite liked the Codex concept. A semi-digital entity is quite fitting with the cyberpunk aesthetic the game has. Maybe lore-wise it is a bit of a stretch, but the whole series is notorious for throwing in technobabble like quantum entangled carbon nanotubes. Pretty much all the aliens in XCOM2 are ridiculous. That is just the style. To be honest, I found the Faceless to be the most immersion breaking. The shape shifting I could get behind, but their blob-like visual just didn't seem to fit. The concept was fine but it looked wrong - no doubt because it is hard to animate a lump of goo such that it looks cool.

@TrashMan probably put it best with the "setting/atmosphere" point. The aliens just need to match up. Given that, I think I would go back on what I previously said. The best aliens for Xenonauts might well be humanoid. Xenonauts is kind of a creepy game, but it is not a horror. It is an action game, but it is not full on Marvel. In no way do I think I've the right to say what the aesthetic of X2 is, but I think that the visual appearance of the aliens should be guided by that aesthetic, rather than the other way around. 

If X2 is anything like X1, then it won't win awards for high end graphics, but the art style will be its redemption. So the aliens have got to look cool. That rules out amorphous blobs or anything that isn't really recognisable as a 'conventional' alien. I really loved xcom:apoc for having an alien race to fill every niche - some were essentially walking weapons or grenades - but they did have a blob alien and also even a puddle alien. In that case, it fit, because the sci-fi themes included biology.

The same isn't true for Xenonauts; the themes look to be less around exotic technology and more around espionage and infiltration. That would mean that the front line aliens should all look as though they could be disguised as humans. Maybe the boss fights would give you a glimpse of the true aliens. So the Praetorian equivalents could be the really wild ones, like the guild navigators from Dune, encased in their own breathing tank. But the bread and butter troops should be closer to Star Trek aliens.

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21 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

From what I heard, we will get Special Missions against brainwashed Humans and Soldiers (which are Working for the Aliens), which is the newest cool Stuff I have heard.

This is good. But a better way should be that the humans are just working for goals that go against Xenonauts in the middle of the war rather than just brainwashed humans. Like you doing favor for the NATO side that directly harming the USSR for instance just to gain some funding and relations.

20 hours ago, TrashMan said:

Uniquness for uniqueness serves no purpose. Trying to create "original" aliens can backfire.

 No, I don't think every alien needs unique mechanics/skills/powers. In fact, I hate that concept, as it feels too game-y, too artificial.

I mean I have never once seen such a thing where uniqueness harming a game. Making homogeneous boring designs always do. For instance look at the 343 takeover of the Halo franchise and the true death of originality after.

I agree that relying too much on gameplay over lore can harm a game. But having you enemies look different but still act the same with the same set of behaviors and equipment is just so boring. After all, the enemies must actually pose a threat that force player to create new strategies to defeat them.

20 hours ago, TrashMan said:

For Xenonauts 2, given it's setting/atmosphere, I'm more for the down-to-earth, believable aliens.

I seriously don’t get why “believable” aliens always have to look humanoid. Is there something I’m missing because I specifically remember that convergence evolution only works when under the same environmental conditions and biological niche, not on different planets where the environments are drastically different. In fact it would be much more unbelievable if a civilization hundreds of light years away from us still have to same number of limbs! Aliens only need to look cool and work (have functioning grasping appendages, a way to communicate and a big enough brain). The Covenant from Halo did this really well with the balance of different aliens with different statures, combat roles and the lore explanation for it. Star Trek only got stuck with rubber headed aliens due to the lack of budget and being a live action show (Roddenberry actually tried to have more strange aliens in the animated series).

What we are lacking is a few alien that fit certain archetypes:

1 Flying/floating aliens that aren’t drones that can shoot and attack your soldiers while in the air

2 Big worm/snake like aliens (kind of like the worms from Chtorr)

3 Insectoid aliens

4 Crystalline aliens

5 Aliens with more/less than 2 arms or legs

6 Aliens with dinosaur stature

These things can be combined to get seriously great enemy designs. Like this redesign of a Klingon from the same artist that designed the creatures in Subnautica.

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18 hours ago, Ninothree said:

The same isn't true for Xenonauts; the themes look to be less around exotic technology and more around espionage and infiltration. That would mean that the front line aliens should all look as though they could be disguised as humans.

I would find it quite humorous if a 2 meter-tall Serbilian tried to disguise itself but dressing in a business suit or the Cessna try to hide their gigantic bubble head in a helmet ;). None of the current aliens can disguise as human even if they want to. Maybe we can go around this by rather trying to make the alien biologically resembling us to blend in, give them holographic devices that hide their forms from regular eyes. Like the DNAliens from Ben 10 or the invaders from They Live.

That’s not even mentioning the current opening have the aliens straight up invading earth with no infiltration at all. Based on the threads on the features section.

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If Xenonauts 2 could bring in some of the Concepts from the new XCOM and Phoenix Point it would be great. The XCOM Idea with the Gen-Therapy-Hospitals as well as the Alien-Virus in the new XCOM as well as Phoenix Point in 1 Combination could be very funny.

In combination with that cool Implementations (announced and allready in) from Xenonauts 2 the Game would be perfect.

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1 hour ago, Xeroxth said:

I agree that relying too much on gameplay over lore can harm a game. But having you enemies look different but still act the same with the same set of behaviors and equipment is just so boring. After all, the enemies must actually pose a threat that force player to create new strategies to defeat them.

No need to push an argument into extreme. No one said all enemies should be clones and act the same. But why should the aliens be a circus collection of super-different creatures? Yes, it is visually more diverse, but everyone and their grandmother does it. 

You might as well say humans are boring because we all have 2 arms and use guns. I guess a sniper and heavy machingunner are the same.

 

 

I seriously don’t get why “believable” aliens always have to look humanoid.

It doesn't, but for a species to form a space-faring civilization, certain requirements have to be met. Developed brain and visual sensors, flexible and strong manipulators, enough strength and endurance, etc...

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