Beta Gameplay Considerations

[Xitax]

I didn't see a thread like this, so here goes.

For me, I'd like to see 'right click to cancel' applied to shooting/throwing for ease of use.

[Jean-Luc]

Isn't rclick used for adding aim levels?

[Assoonasitis]

Isn't rclick used for adding aim levels?

It is and it's jarring and I hate it.

[crusherven]

I agree with right click being used to cancel stuff. I still try to right click before reaching for the escape key. If nothing else, let us remap it. Right now you can't map mouse buttons to key bindings.

I also find the medikit TU levels to be incredibly counterintuitive. As far as I can tell, there's absolutely nothing that suggests it should be possible to do that. For both guns and medikits, I'd prefer something on/near the rifle letting me select TU use.

[Jean-Luc]

It is and it's jarring and I hate it.

What would you propose? It was the same in JA1/2 iirc. The keyboard and left-click are out of the question (for aiming I mean) which leaves the mouse wheel and strange as it sounds I think there's still a lot of people out there with wheel-less mice, not to mention 3rd, 4th button etc.

I'm a little surprised you guys find this so jarring. R-click to cancel is mostly a feature of 90's RTS games afaik though it was in X-Com as well I suppose (but it didn't have aiming tiers).

Edited April 7, 2013 by Jean-Luc

[Assoonasitis]

What would you propose? It was the same in JA1/2 iirc. The keyboard and left-click are out of the question (for aiming I mean) which leaves the mouse wheel and strange as it sounds I think there's still a lot of people out there with wheel-less mice, not to mention 3rd, 4th button etc.

I'm a little surprised you guys find this so jarring. R-click to cancel is mostly a feature of 90's RTS games afaik though it was in X-Com as well I suppose (but it didn't have aiming tiers).

Absolutely it did have aiming tiers. You clicked the weapon, then selected from Aimed, Snap and sometimes Auto Shot. That makes so much sense to me, especially since the game handles burst-fire so awkwardly (if I select a unit with single or burst fire modes after a unit that was in burst fire mode it will be burst fire, if I select it after a unit in single fire mode it will be single fire. This is regardless of what mode of fire I had the unit in last turn).

[Jean-Luc]

Yeah, I meant, you know.....JA-style tiers.

I suppose an X-Com-like fire menu could work though it'd need to accommodate more tiers.

I believe the assault rifle has a basic aim + 2 rings for a total of 3 tiers, 4 for the sniper then iirc. So in the case of the rifle you'd need something like, snap/quick shot, sighted/careful, aimed and burst. And a 4th "snipe/scope" tier for precision rifles.

[crusherven]

Jean-Luc, right-click to cancel isn't just a feature of 90's games. It's fairly common to have either left or right-click cancel, depending on which is the main action button. I find it particularly irritating that if I want to cancel a grenade through or a shot, I have to either click on the weapon or hit escape. Look, old habits die hard, OK?

[Jean-Luc]

Left click isn't right click now, is it? Older RTSs like the Westwood titles used rclick for cancelling while today I doubt there's single game in that vein (though it's possible I suppose) that doesn't use is for giving (movement) orders instead.

There's a strategy game, can't remember the name, that has the option to make the left button "primary" and it's even described as an old school setting with good reason.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Jean-Luc

[crusherven]

Completely irrelevant.

[Xitax]

Another thing that I think would be good is a selector button on the weapon HUD for each firing mode (snap, normal, aimed, and auto or whatever the weapon has). Not everyone has a mousewheel or prefers to use it. Also list TU for throwing grenades or reloading.

I also agree that the firing mode should probably remember the last firing mode that soldier used.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Xitax

[MLGertzert]

Here's a solution to the whole fiasco about R-click to cancel: Make everything rebind-able.

[Sathra]

I like how it currently is. Lets me quickly cycle between aim modes, and I rarely use escape since I rarely need to cancel attack mode. Mostly because I let the game do the weapon reticule creation for me.

[GizmoGomez]

I agree with putting the different options on the weapon HUD itself. It'd make it much less dependent on scroll wheel behavior. And I agree, the ability to remap all buttons would be really nice.

[Assoonasitis]

I like how it currently is. Lets me quickly cycle between aim modes, and I rarely use escape since I rarely need to cancel attack mode. Mostly because I let the game do the weapon reticule creation for me.

Perhaps have the player hold Ctrl + right click to change zoom? Or have the firing HUD work as follows: player LMB clicks on enemy, pop-up appears, player chooses zoom mode. Just something that pops up right next to the mouse cursor. Probably a pain in the neck to code, but would be kind of cool.

[Gauddlike]

I like the current method of right clicking to set aim level.

My only gripe would be that the game should remember fire modes on an individual soldier basis not globally.

Move cursor over the target, right click to select fire mode.

If you want to fire left click, if you decide you don't want to fire then just move the cursor away.

Next time you mouse over a target the mode should be remembered so you can easily compare identical shots against different targets.

The problem is with the grenades and when you want to ground fire somewhere.

I personally prefer to hold a key down to activate those modes and release the key to return to normal mode.

For example hold alt for ground fire or hold shift for grenade firing.

Right click doesn't really occur to me as a cancel button under normal circumstances.

I am pretty adaptable though and after playing a game for a short time I can get used to any set up.

[Hairyscreech]

You know the scroll wheel works for fire modes at the moment right?

I had not actually noticed that the right click did it as well, as even on the laptop touch pad I have been using the scroll.

I have found hovering over the target to get the reticule up and then using the scroll wheel/bar is easiest.

[radister]

strange thing to ask. look at it this way

Mouse buttons, left, right, (maybe middle, maybe wheel maybe more buttons)

So you have left primary

and right secondary

Now list the actions:

Fire, Aim, Cancel

what is used more?

1.Fire

2.Aim

3.Cancel.

So left = fire

right = aim

i guess you could set a thrid button to cancel tho some mouse won't have it (same reason you can't set you wheel to aim, some people won't have it)

so cancel is droped from mouse control.

i image the reason you want this is like me sometime you like to sit back in the chair and do eveything by the mouse when playing some games. and the esc key is too far away.

but isn't it a better idea to click on the weapon again to cancel firing? (normaly the first thing i try)

the reason i don't try right click first to cancel is become in some games that is fire, so if im trying to avoid firing and i don't know the controls its more likly i'llj ust redo the steps i did to get here in hope it takes me back.

[dragond81]

If you just want to cancel firing by using the mouse only, why don't you just click back on the weapon itself? If you click on the weapon it activates forced fire mode and clicking again toggles it off. Works for weapons in hand and grenade quick slot.

I like the right click to switch aiming options so I can quickly compare TUs to accuracy. I'd prefer if it would also cycle through burst, if available on the weapon, so I can compare/switch all, but it isn't that hard to move the mouse down and switch modes. I also like the fact that we don't have to select a target, then click what fire mode to use. It saves clicks when doing multiple shots, not to mention your cursor stays over the target.

[Assoonasitis]

If you just want to cancel firing by using the mouse only, why don't you just click back on the weapon itself? If you click on the weapon it activates forced fire mode and clicking again toggles it off. Works for weapons in hand and grenade quick slot.

I like the right click to switch aiming options so I can quickly compare TUs to accuracy. I'd prefer if it would also cycle through burst, if available on the weapon, so I can compare/switch all, but it isn't that hard to move the mouse down and switch modes. I also like the fact that we don't have to select a target, then click what fire mode to use. It saves clicks when doing multiple shots, not to mention your cursor stays over the target.

Hold Ctrl, scroll with mouse wheel. Even cycles through burst. Our point isn't about cancelling fire-mode with just the mouse, it's about cancelling fire-mode with the mouse without having to move away from the action.

[Gauddlike]

You can also use B to toggle burst/single or R to turn on ground fire mode, would prefer R to also turn it back off but that is escape.

Holding ctrl toggles ground fire on until you release the button.

Hopefully mouse buttons will be bindable so everyone can have their own preferred option.

[erutan]

I could see having right click be cancel for grenades but keeping it as aim cycle for aimed weapons.

And yes, remembering aim/type per soldier is pretty necessary,

[Belmakor]

What about a holding down RMB and left click to cancel?

[erutan]

Keybindings sounds like a good idea. I've starting using the mousewheel instead of right click to toggle aim, I wouldn't mind being able to rebind right click to cancel to speed things up a bit,

[Chris]

Soldier aim being remembered on an individual soldier basis rather than a global basis is something that should be fixed. Also, I agree that right-click should cancel a grenade throw cursor.

However,the fundamental LMB and RMB mapping won't change. LMB is shoot, RMB is cycle aim levels. If you want to cancel fire, move your mouse off the alien...but if you're using force fire mode, you'll have to press Escape to cancel it. You don't need to use force fire mode for everything.