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Xenonauts Kickstarter and Public Build

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Chris how does having premium pre-order relate to any perks given in the fundraising drive that is upcoming? Like would having a premium pre-order be equivalent to any "goodies" say a level 2 contributor would have? I'm just curious as I might chip in some more if I am able to do so but I have been wondering about how that's going to work.

Also that really stinks about not having someone on the team from the US means you can't use Kickstarter. What does on the team mean exactly? I live in the US and test the game - can that count somehow? :D

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Wherever you do this kickstarter thingy, just make sure that the fine folk at Rock, Paper, Shotgun are aware of it so they can mention it on their website.

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Hopefully the current premium pre-order will be one of the rewards for funding.

You would still be able to get the same thing but you would pay for it through indiegogo.

If Chris did try and circumvent the kickstarter terms of use then he could be leaving himself open to losing the funding raised anyway.

Getting a bad reputation from the kickstarter crowd wouldn't help publicity either.

The only real way to do it is if Chris could hire someone to run the kickstarter but it would have to be someone very well trusted for the kind of risk involved.

All in all better to use indiegogo and just have the forumites here spread the information as far as we can.

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Oh - when I say Kickstarter, I actually mean IndieGoGo.com as we're not going to be able to get on Kickstarter as we don't have any US citizens on the team. Shouldn't actually affect anything though (hopefully).

cant you get one of the forum members from USA and give him some kind of work title?, like creative consultant or senior tester?

is america where the big bucks are.....

by the way what is a kick starter? some kind of charity to make something? what do you get for paying money to a kickstarter product? shares? profits from the game?

in any case have you spoken directly with someone in the kickstarter management , explaining you have at least one person in the team (asuming forum member and a "beta tester job title" which would allow you to make it happen?

i doubt they dont want to be a part of a game like this....

i just looked at the terms and conditions briefly and the FAQ part and there is nothing about nationalities......

Edited by cyllan

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Yes, the Premium pre-order will be one of the funding levels. If you're already a premium pre-orderer you'll be entitled to the bonuses as if you'd contributed at that level. Quite what they'll be or how we'll distribute them yet I don't know. But you won't be penalised for having given us the $30 prior to this.

I'm not really interested in potentially having a very large sum of money go through the bank account of someone who I don't know. We've approached some US-based gaming-related organisations but they aren't interested based on the risks involved. That includes people like Humble Bundle and Doublefine etc.

Believe me, we've tried everything suggested in this thread.

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cant you get one of the forum members from USA and give him some kind of work title?, like creative consultant or senior tester?

is america where the big bucks are.....

by the way what is a kick starter? some kind of charity to make something? what do you get for paying money to a kickstarter product? shares? profits from the game?

in any case have you spoken directly with someone in the kickstarter management , explaining you have at least one person in the team (asuming forum member and a "beta tester job title" which would allow you to make it happen?

i doubt they dont want to be a part of a game like this....

Cyllan Chris would have to use the USA citizens bank account. I don't think he would like that.

No, you don't get shares or part of the profit. You get rewards that the one trying to raise money decides he wants to give out. the rewards depend on how much you as a backer pledge to give.

Kickstarter themselves get a % of the funds raised. Kickstarter will not be part of the game.

Kickstarter can currently do nothing to include Chris since they are limited by their third party affiliate Amazon. Amazon handles all the transactions and requires US citizenship, bankaccount, creditcard, adress and social number.

i just looked at the terms and conditions briefly and the FAQ part and there is nothing about nationalities......

Then you did not look hard enough my friend. Its right there after clicking "help" at the bottom of the central row "Am I eligeble to start a kickstarter project?"

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/creating%20a%20project#AmIEligToStarAKickProj

Am I eligible to start a Kickstarter project?

To be eligible to start a Kickstarter project, you need to satisfy the requirements of Amazon Payments:

Be a permanent US resident and at least 18 years of age with a Social Security Number (or EIN), a US bank account, US address, US state-issued ID (driver’s license), and major US credit or debit card.

Projects must also follow the Kickstarter Guidelines.

A bit below that is:

I'm not in the US. Can I start a project on Kickstarter?

You don't have to physically be in the US, but there are some US requirements to be eligible. Please read: "Am I eligible to start a Kickstarter project?"

We’re working hard to open up to more countries. If you’ve been waiting, we really appreciate your patience

Edited by Gorlom

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Ender by visiting this sticky thread:

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/145-How-to-claim-your-Pre-Order-forum-badge!

Personally I wouldnt be comfortable with a kickstarter that uses the bank account of someone that volunteered through the forum. I assume other backers would have a problem with that as well. Ok if Chris goes headhunting and recruits someone, but voluenteers just seems like a bad idea from an outside perspective.

Thanks for the infomation on the badge. Truthfully, being recruited makes more sense, but I would love to see this game on kickstarter. I would throw some more money at it, since it's associated with amazon.com and I trust that system.

Edited by ender101
typo

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Cyllan Chris would have to use the USA citizens bank account. I don't think he would like that.

He could also have a US Citizen set up a business checking account. There are different rules that can be set up for those types of accounts on who can access and make deposits on those types of accounts. I’m not sure what the rules/regulations are for international business account usage, but it could be worth exploring at least

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You've already said that existing premium pre-orderers would receive bonuses but what about the standard pre-order folk?

Edited by Kaje

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Yes, the Premium pre-order will be one of the funding levels. If you're already a premium pre-orderer you'll be entitled to the bonuses as if you'd contributed at that level. Quite what they'll be or how we'll distribute them yet I don't know. But you won't be penalised for having given us the $30 prior to this.

I imagine the standard pre-order will be another of the funding levels.

Hopefully it will know when you give extra as well to top up to a higher amount but that would probably be way too complicated and screw up the figures.

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Fingers crossed, it'd be a little unfair for the premium lot to receive something and for there to be nothing for us standard lot! ;)

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Well the standard pre-order does get you access to the alpha and beta stages, same as the premium.

The only real difference is that there might be some kind of fluff bonus when the game is released for the extra $10.

At the moment that is a gold forum badge instead of a silver one.

If the funding level that equates to standard offers a copy of the game and beta access then you have already gotten more because you managed to get on board early :)

The GOG funders will not be getting anything for their money that the pre order crowd hasn't got for the same amount anyway.

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We've approached some US-based gaming-related organisations but they aren't interested based on the risks involved. That includes people like Humble Bundle and Doublefine etc.

Is there a possibility that we can convince any of these US organizations that you've contacted to get them to help?

If we show our support, they might change their minds.

Also, could Standards "upgrade" to Premiums through the IndieGoGo pledge?

Edited by Xenospotter

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Also, could Standards "upgrade" to Premiums through the IndieGoGo pledge?

I assume that if you pledge on top of your standard pre-order you will get any rewards that the team decides on for the amount pledged. And closest to the standard will probably be the premium. I don't know exactly how indiegogo works however, or exactly what Chris has in mind. But probably there will be a system for informing them that you already have a pre-order and the amount you pledge is on top of that.

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It's a bit tricky really - we're not going to know if you've already pre-ordered or not when you donate, I'm afraid. It'd be quite a lot of effort to do some kind of cross-checking given the number of pre-orders we have both on Desura and prior to the move.

Will there be extra goodies for the standard pre-orderers? No, I don't think so. There won't be extra goodies for the premium pre-orderers either, it's just that we're going to have to work out exactly what these long-awaited premium pre-orderer bonuses actually are and give them to them.

They're likely to be something that is easy enough to pirate - the game's soundtrack and some wallpapers, perhaps, or maybe me writing up the development diary I've been keeping for the past couple of years into e-book form to go with the game etc. Probably both. Basically stuff that doesn't have extra unit costs for every unit sold. That way if you've donated $30 to the project one way or another you could just pirate it with no problems at all.

If we do physical goods (like posters etc) that'd be for the $50+ market I think. I'm still not entirely sure though.

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It's a bit tricky really - we're not going to know if you've already pre-ordered or not when you donate, I'm afraid. It'd be quite a lot of effort to do some kind of cross-checking given the number of pre-orders we have both on Desura and prior to the move.

Will there be extra goodies for the standard pre-orderers? No, I don't think so. There won't be extra goodies for the premium pre-orderers either, it's just that we're going to have to work out exactly what these long-awaited premium pre-orderer bonuses actually are and give them to them.

They're likely to be something that is easy enough to pirate - the game's soundtrack and some wallpapers, perhaps, or maybe me writing up the development diary I've been keeping for the past couple of years into e-book form to go with the game etc. Probably both. Basically stuff that doesn't have extra unit costs for every unit sold. That way if you've donated $30 to the project one way or another you could just pirate it with no problems at all.

If we do physical goods (like posters etc) that'd be for the $50+ market I think. I'm still not entirely sure though.

Thanks for the clarification, Chris.

And great to see you don't mind piracy! /s

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I think its more that he knows it's going to happen!

I have my gold forum badge, the rest of it doesn't matter to me.

If you try and pirate my gold I'll keel haul you!

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Call me a pessimist, call me a partypooper, call me negative but, looking at IGG the most funding any game has received through IGG is a meagerly 16k, followed by roughly 4 projects around 13k then a shrap drop off.

IGG simply is lacking the traffic compared to kickstarter. Since this project doesnt have the traffic volume itself (like double fine had) it will be depended on the funding site for traffic and momentum.

Honestly doing this through IGG seems like a mistake to me; heck if you are looking for funding in the range of $15k; you rather try to get an investor onboard; heck I'll invest that much for the propper return.

Bringing an american onboard for the sole purpose of being able to do this through kickstarter seems like a much better idea to me.

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Bringing an american onboard for the sole purpose of being able to do this through kickstarter seems like a much better idea to me.

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/1270-Xenonauts-Kickstarter-and-Public-Build?p=14851&viewfull=1#post14851

Apparantly that idea doesn't work. So the best idea is to somehow generate traffic to IGG.

Since kickstarter pages doesn't cost anything and doesn't seem to have any policy against it I was suggesting makeing an unofficial/fanmade Xenonaut kickstarter page set up to deliberately fail, but to make people aware of Xenonauts and possibly it's IGG campaign. (But noone has commented on that so far)

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http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/1270-Xenonauts-Kickstarter-and-Public-Build?p=14851&viewfull=1#post14851

Since kickstarter pages doesn't cost anything and doesn't seem to have any policy against it I was suggesting makeing an unofficial/fanmade Xenonaut kickstarter page set up to deliberately fail, but to make people aware of Xenonauts and possibly it's IGG campaign. (But noone has commented on that so far)

My sense is that wouldn't work - I haven't done a ton of digging but there's a question in the Kickstart FAQ about "My project was declined but meets the Kickstarter guidelines..." (http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/creating%20a%20project#MyProjWasDeclButItMeetTheKickGuidWhatDoIDo). That seems to imply that there's an approval process and guidelines, and I'd have to imagine that "Kickstarter project designed to drive traffic to a rival site" probably doesn't fit within those guidelines.

I do agree with people that there's a real social aspect to the Kickstarter site, because you can see what projects other people back and I know that I've used that to see what projects are backed by creators of projects I back (reasoning that Brian Fargo, Rich Burlew and the FTL guys probably have similar tastes to mine) and I've even clicked on random co-backers of projects just to see if there are good ideas out there that I'd like. I think there's definite value to being on "the" site that everyone else is on so that you get those network effects, though Xenonauts has enough buzz in the tactic gaming community (and supporters at PC Gamer, etc.) that maybe that's not necessary.

It's a real shame about the Amazon payments policy... if I had to guess, Amazon's probably running up against either tax or money laundering regulations that create issues with money being sent overseas. As with I'm sure a bunch of other supporters of the cause, I'd happily offer my services as a U.S. citizen but I can get why any of us random forum users with cool nicknames aren't necessarily the sort of close friends you'd trust with something this big. That said, if Goldhawk needs a U.S. licensed general counsel to be a part time Advisory Member for Kickstarter purposes, just say the word.

Sounds like the real answer is going to be for everyone in the community to beat the drum for the Indiegogo site on twitter, websites, live broadcasts, letters to journalists, etc., and move Xenonauts to the All-Time #1 spot for Indiegogo by a factor of 10x or so! I'm on a bunch of forums/mailing lists for fans of old school games and as soon as the drive goes up, you can bet I'll be spreading the word.

Looking forward to it !

-Kilrathi

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http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/1270-Xenonauts-Kickstarter-and-Public-Build?p=14851&viewfull=1#post14851

Apparantly that idea doesn't work. So the best idea is to somehow generate traffic to IGG.

Since kickstarter pages doesn't cost anything and doesn't seem to have any policy against it I was suggesting makeing an unofficial/fanmade Xenonaut kickstarter page set up to deliberately fail, but to make people aware of Xenonauts and possibly it's IGG campaign. (But noone has commented on that so far)

Hmmm, ok, so trust is the issue with that suggestion, which in all fairness is understandable. Wouldnt a notary be willing to help out though?

Or a combination of a US citizen using a notary for the money as a third-party account.

Another thing that might be an issue with a fundraiser like this could be taxes.

Edited by DrAtomic

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My sense is that wouldn't work - I haven't done a ton of digging but there's a question in the Kickstart FAQ about "My project was declined but meets the Kickstarter guidelines..." (http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/creating%20a%20project#MyProjWasDeclButItMeetTheKickGuidWhatDoIDo). That seems to imply that there's an approval process and guidelines, and I'd have to imagine that "Kickstarter project designed to drive traffic to a rival site" probably doesn't fit within those guidelines.

Looking forward to it !

-Kilrathi

Well there isn't any need to link to the IndieGoGo site. Just to link to this site and create awarness of the game. People will probably find a way to the real funding site by themselves. It's just about how to formulate the kickstarer page.

Probably should set an amazingly huge funding goal and then apologize on the front page that ther was a mistake made and that you unfortunately can't change the goal.

Or if anyone got the guts to ask kickstarter directly if they would be allowed to make a kickstarter page to help a non US citizen to raise fund on an incredibly interesting game and whine about how their partner doesnt allow non US citizens. If they really cared about helping out new projects they would endorse this workaround! =)

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Well there isn't any need to link to the IndieGoGo site. Just to link to this site and create awarness of the game. People will probably find a way to the real funding site by themselves. It's just about how to formulate the kickstarer page.

Probably should set an amazingly huge funding goal and then apologize on the front page that ther was a mistake made and that you unfortunately can't change the goal.

Or if anyone got the guts to ask kickstarter directly if they would be allowed to make a kickstarter page to help a non US citizen to raise fund on an incredibly interesting game and whine about how their partner doesnt allow non US citizens. If they really cared about helping out new projects they would endorse this workaround! =)

I think it's a terrible idea, first of all it's not likely to generate that much traffic anyway since people would be spreading links to the other site and also it would give a very bad image of the game when it's such an obvious ploy to advertise... Also it's likely to get rejected or removed anyway... It's a good thought but realistically it's not good to do I would say...

I don't see why kickstarter would help their competing site by doing anything that would generate traffic for them unless they are insanely nice people and at the end of the day this comes down to money really, it couldn't hurt to ask but not likely to go through I would say :(

It's just stupid that it needs a US citizen really but there's not much to do about it, unless WE generate massive amount of traffic to the indiegogo page then I'm doubting it will get any large amount pledged to it and there needs to be some kind of plan if it fails so this doesn't end up ruining/hurting the project. Slippery slope this!

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