(Mod Update) XNT Into Darkness V5.3 - "The Firebat" (DISCUSSION THREAD)

[Sentelin]

Strange casue I have played 2 missions in vanila to chek it and aliens drop beetwen 12-15 of them. Even if we double they amonut couse there i twice as much aliens in xnt its still high amount they drop in mod.

In XNT for first 4 missions it was: 119/76/99/80smth

...............................

Mikhail:

Quote Originally Posted by TacticalDragon View Post

@Coders,

Report

Missions running with 0.25HF return the bug of alien plasma cell, multiple cells are recovered at the end of the mission always 179 units.

Thanks!

That's come back in vanilla (maybe it never went away?). I'm not using the Community Edition, but I'm getting it too.

Solver:

Quote Originally Posted by TacticalDragon View Post

@Coders,

Report

Missions running with 0.25HF return the bug of alien plasma cell, multiple cells are recovered at the end of the mission always 179 units.

Thanks!

1.The bug of many alien plasma batteries has not been fixed in X:CE, it's just a pretty rare bug. But it can happen equally in X:CE and vanilla.

2.Well, that bug has been reported multiple times in vanilla, so it is from vanilla.

[andqui]

@DCK

Try redownload the pack and apply again. I will have in consideration all you suggestion about early combat. To reach stability in ground combat you need to train and attempt to survive the major quantity of veteran. In early missions is normal have only one survivor. When you hit jackal and some new weapons thing become different, you veteram are stars in combat and rookies can deal with aliens surviving with less casualties.

Fist hint, try to hire lot of rookies and dont expose starting soldiers, use shields, they are good enough defensive to avoid casualties. Try to retreat when you see difficult combats.

Thanks for the vipers ^^

@Alewalek,

The bug of the plasma clips is from vanilla

Solver annunce it in community mod section

I've only been playing for a few days- but I usually do ok until I get to the point where I need to capture an enemy officer. Fighting the scouts, I can get through a mission with max 1-2 casualties. After that, you basically need to attack a corvette/medium sized vessel to find an officer to capture, right? In the air, 2 x Mirage and 1 x Sukhoi only gives me a ~33% autoresolve against a corvette, And if I do manage to shoot one down or surprise on while it's on the ground, I'm having trouble doing anything against the crew of a corvette. My unarmored soldiers get ripped to shreds against the super robot aliens (the green ones are tough but maneagable, but the blue ones need me to bring a rocket launcher around).

I do really like the grim early atmosphere, but do you have any suggestions of what I do at this point? I have 3 labs cranking away at research, and just got to the point where I can research improved combat armor, but for the near future I'm pretty much stuck with the Mirage/Sukhoi fighter combinations and the regular guns. I'm sure once I get better weapons and armor they will be less challenging, but getting over that barrier is proving tough. Should I just avoid the medium UFO's entirely? Is it worth my time to attack the small ones in the meantime (will they contain officers?)

[TacticalDragon]

At the point when corvettes appear you need to have 5 or 6 labs min, manufacturing active and Jackal armor already researched.

Is only question that you get use to the mod. You first strategy dosent work? Start again.

Warhawks, Thunderbolt, Alenium explosives and snipers can deal with androns.

[Yannosx]

Apologies if this has been discussed before but is it normal that smoke grenades will now hurt your soldiers? And if so, how do you actually use them now? Are you supposed to suck up the 2 or 3 points of damage that you get when you enter the smoke?

[Sentelin]

Yeah because they do small chemical damage.You can use them as you did in vanilla.Later when you research first armor (Jackal) you will have decent chemical resistance and smoke grenade will not damage your soldiers.

You should however used them not to cover your soldiers in smoke but as mean to force aliens to change their position or to provide you cover while pulling/grouping/re-positioning your squad (Note:However smoke grenade does not protect you from reaction fire so be careful )

Edited July 14, 2014 by Sentelin

[aZmoDen]

Howdy folks, i cant seem to download teh mod, the capture on mediafire wont come up so i dont have access to it.

Is there any other hosting options?

[TacticalDragon]

Howdy folks, i cant seem to download teh mod, the capture on mediafire wont come up so i dont have access to it.

Is there any other hosting options?

Hello Azmoden,

Try open the medifirelink with internet explorer, I dont know why in Firefox and Chrome cause lot of problems.

Good luck and enjoy

[aZmoDen]

had my neighbour run it over on a thumb drive for me about to start my first game, thanks for the reply

[TacticalDragon]

had my neighbour run it over on a thumb drive for me about to start my first game, thanks for the reply

I want to ask to all players that can make a test run for this Hotfix to check if there is no bug.

We test it and looks clean.

EXPERIMENTAL FIXER

- Fix No landing possible

- 3 minor bugs

- Repair some xenopedia entries and strings.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/21ynniiy2taeha2

If anyone can give me feedback I will really appreciate it.

[aZmoDen]

i had a ufo intercept my 2 returning condors, it appeared they were stuck hovering above my base, after i clicked the x's (during the intercept) and combat ended the ufo flew off and my planes were in the base.

Its weird i had a returning chinook and it almost appeared the fighters were waiting for that to return before they entered teh base.

*edit* i dint see the above hotfix sorry, im going to do a clean install and a new game then ill give you more feedback.

[Xydonus]

I was enjoying this mod, despite the increased difficulty (which I found to be manageable), up until the

teleporting alien

. I'm not a fan. Not at all. I'm pretty much considering going back to vanilla because of this. I've not had a problem with the increased difficulty and I consider myself a 'veteran' of tactics games so having such an overpowered unbalanced alien in the mod ruins the experience. I can understand the concept. I get it. I take it your trying to emphasis the importance of reaction fire and keeping your men on reserve (something I do a lot) but it's one of those things that looks good on paper, but plays bad when implemented.

First of all, it's not fun getting swamped by

four teleporting aliens

who do fairly high melee damage. I can say it's manageable with one, maybe two of them, but having four of them do that is insanely overpowered and more so when your spending your TU on actions in a firefight and have to deal with this on the next turn. I can understand balance is an ongoing issue and something that gets refined constantly. But this is so severely outbalanced I will simply fail to see how it can be defended. If the aliens are going to have that ability, then at least nerf their attack. This is in relation to their attack against Jackal armor wearing soldiers so I'm sure their attack is reduced further with other armors, but having them this early on and being extremely deadly for what they can do, it's just far too much.

Plus the main issue is that they should serve as a nuisance rather than a slaughtering machine, for which they currently are considering what they can do. Again, if it was only one, I could manage it. Two, I'd be complaining but putting up with it. More than that it's just an insanely powerful weapon that the aliens have and far too hurtful to the player in terms of balance.

*Just to avoid confusion, I'm not talking about the wraith, which is a late game addition in the vanilla. I'm talking about the viper type alien that has the ability of the wraith and is far more deadlier, and occurs early on rather than late.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Xydonus

[Sentelin]

First of all, it's not fun getting swamped by

This is in relation to their attack against Jackal armor wearing soldiers so I'm sure their attack is reduced further with other armors, but having them this early on and being extremely deadly for what they can do, it's just far too much.

Have you consider at any point to pick what you can and retreat to base ?Because in this mod we want to encourage player to learn how to use abandon mission button in menu.I bet that 80% people who play vanilla never use it (and why would they ?).

That said,there is something very off about damage aliens do.This shouldn't have happen.It's not just melee type of aliens it's also about all other races.In our previous build before we compiled CE 0.25 with our mod,aliens didn't shoot across +15 tiles and killed you instantly early in game,and this is just one of example.

Right now we are doing some re-balance.Lowering damage of all aliens,their accuracy and modifying "wound" system.Conclusion what you wrote above is valid but it's more about system that got somehow broken rather than Alien itself.I hope you will be patient enough to wait for us to fix this.

P.S Remember retreat and pick up whatever you can in situations like this don't just waste your squad.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Sentelin

[Xydonus]

Have you consider at any point to pick what you can and retreat to base ?Because in this mod we want to encourage player to learn how to use abandon mission button in menu.I bet that 80% people who play vanilla never use it (and why would they ?).

P.S Remember retreat and pick up whatever you can in situations like this don't just waste your squad.

I'm not part of that 80% figure. I did retreat, and I do use the abort function. Some players might do a reload, and that's not something I would do but definitely something I considered since I felt that it was completely unfair, unbalanced attack. In a single turn 4 soldiers died instantly, I had 2 left along with a scout vehicle.. I pretty much had zero chance, and my retreat didn't go well. But trying to motivate players in using the abort function by swarming them with these types of aliens isn't the answer. If anything it will just annoy them or piss them off, like it did with me. I understand what your going for, and agree with it, I just don't agree with the implementation of these aliens.

I didn't feel "O, I'm no match for these! Abort abort!" but instead felt, "WTF? This early! And... I'm dead. Great." A player is less likely to abort if they feel cheated and I definitely felt cheated in that scenario.

In regards to the aliens themselves:

I feel it doesn't make sense for these to be teleporting. We already have a species that teleports; the Wraiths. Now these other ones can teleport as well, which kinda sours the unique feel that the Wraiths have. This is just my personal opinion, but that's how I see it. I don't think they should be given such an ability plus utilizing that deadly ability so early on.

It's good that you acknowledge damage values that need to be fixed. I think the same needs to be said for the early ballistic weapon damage against early vipers/xeno's and Gargon's. I believe there is an inconsistency within the Xenopedia that states that the ballistic weaponry will still be effective against Gargon when in fact the only one that is relatively effective is the sniper, all others even shotty's at close range do little to no damage to both Xeno/Gargons. With all that said I think the core issue here is the balance and the implementation of these aliens so early on with that ability. I personally think they should be stripped of that ability but that's just me.

[Theon Greyjoy]

Xydonus - Gargol damage

I'll just answer the part about lore cos that would be my fault if anything is confusing.

It's written in lore that ballistics are effective against Gargols cos they still are - though not immediately after the first few shots (damage resisted), you need to damage the shell/armor first and this is done quickest with bursty ballistic weapons. After the first couple of shots that get the armor down, ballistics become very efficient against Gargols. Especially when you research the improved ballistic branch.

In comparission using a laser would require much more shots and much more TUs. I'll consider taking a look what I wrote there and maybe adding a line about armor degradation. Thanks for the feedback.

[TacticalDragon]

*Just to avoid confusion, I'm not talking about the wraith, which is a late game addition in the vanilla. I'm talking about the viper type alien that has the ability of the wraith and is far more deadlier, and occurs early on rather than late.

Xydonus,

I understand you is an experiment, we want to see the reaction of gives teleport to this kind of units. The solution, give us the feedback and thats it. We know that difficulty is partial double edge sword, but is not all. Balancing this game is a huge thing, even a single change of one value can shake the entire balance.

We are planning a Balance update, just take away any angry or dissapointment about dealing with hardcore race of aliens. Forget about it.

What are your suggestions?

[greatergood45]

Hi guys, GG45 here.

I've just spent the last hours or so testing the mod, with several more inspecting 'assets' file.

First of all, I've to say this is the richest content mod so far, you guys surely had spent a lot of time and efforts to it. Thank you for that. I do hope that XNT would be nurtured, and become the ultimate mod of the game.

While the skeleton is good, I'd like to suggest some idea about polishing phase, it's the Consistency throughout the game, I want to give 2 points that I think it's important:

+Research name: We have 'Alien Plasma Rifle', 'Alien Plasma Cannon',... but why "Research Alien Spine Thrower"? Similarly, "Advanced Ballistic" is good, the word "Tech" followed isn't necessary.

+Xenopedia images. The big white "XNT - Into Darkness Mod" at the bottom of the pictures is what I don't like, because it's ruin the pedia's format somehow. Besides, there are misspelled words, for example Ad_adstra has the word "Cautious" and Cannons with "Finishing" at the first paragraph. Some other pictures are not very beautiful. However, I understand that you guys would need good artists for these images to be re-designed.

Then, about UI and visual improvements: I think Jsleezy's Real Armors Mod is really good, but it's not fully integrated in XNT. It's quite an easy task, except that the new Coyote Armor uses Jsleezy's Jackal. What we should do is keep Original Jackal, use Jsleezy's Jackal for Coyote, and replace the other armors with Jsleezy's.

Also, integrating Skitso's UI mod and Skitzo's AI Sleek would also be a nice thing to do.

Another mod that I think which would be compatible is BuzuBuzu's Entries for upgraded Aircraft weapons. It is said to be included in Lore+ soon, so it would be best to wait and see if Lore+ be updated.

Finally, I want to thank you again for a rich and amazing content mod. Bless this mod to be the most awesome and un-ignorable to all the players of Xenonauts. In quick summary: Don't forget to polish it, just a friendly reminder.

P/s: Xenopedia's Entry for Gargol is too disturbing

Edited July 15, 2014 by greatergood45

[Crave]

Then, about UI and visual improvements: I think Jsleezy's Real Armors Mod is really good, but it's not fully integrated in XNT. It's quite an easy task, except that the new Coyote Armor uses Jsleezy's Jackal. What we should do is keep Original Jackal, use Jsleezy's Jackal for Coyote, and replace the other armors with Jsleezy's.

Also, integrating Skitso's UI mod and Skitzo's AI Sleek would also be a nice thing to do.

You can just install Skitso's excellent Sleek AI Turn after XNT, it doesnt cause any conflicts.

As for Jsleezys Real Armor mod i agree, i'm using a modified version myself. Specifically i believe the armor from saborw's Mobile Infantry Mod fits the theme of an upgraded Jackal armor perfectly. I took the freedom to make a slight adjustment to jsleezys Jackal armor (remove the helmet visor) and added the visor to saborws armor set.

These are some updated Xenopedia images i whooped up:

Jackal without visor:

Coyote:

Applying the black armor sprites to the XNT coyote armor is super easy, just download saborw's Mobile Infantry Mod (full version) and copy the contents of assets/units/xenonaut/armour.jackal from the archive into assets/units/xenonaut/armour.impjackal in your xenonauts installation

All props to Jsleezy and saborw for the art

[Theon Greyjoy]

+Research name: We have 'Alien Plasma Rifle', 'Alien Plasma Cannon',... but why "Research Alien Spine Thrower"? Similarly, "Advanced Ballistic" is good, the word "Tech" followed isn't necessary.

Good point, will be fixed

+Xenopedia images. The big white "XNT - Into Darkness Mod" at the bottom of the pictures is what I don't like, because it's ruin the pedia's format somehow.

I somewhat agree. TD explain yourself *sigh* It was actually made to make the formatting of the otherwise irregularly shaped pictures coherent with the normal arts...but I still don't like it that much.

Then, about UI and visual improvements:

Please be aware that it is not always possible to acquire all the content from other mod-makers as they do not wish to have their work be a part of bigger mods.

Don't forget to polish it

Help us! :P

You can always join in and fix all the typos - irregularities if you want to support the mod. Just saying

P/s: Xenopedia's Entry for Gargol is too disturbing

It is perhaps the most morbid entry in the whole xenopedia. Don't play XNT when it's dark and you are all alone. (　ﾟ,_ゝﾟ)

Edited July 15, 2014 by Theon Greyjoy

[Kirill Selivanov]

Hey, folks, sorry for late-comming comment addons.

Can i post sume looks in bugs of 5.2 here? maybe some things are lost and it would help? Or they maybe all from vanila, just doesn't know for clear. If it from there - just ignor-)

Lets run.

1. soldier halucinate... and than berserkering (in one turn psi attacks ru-u-ule). He has a stun boton inmain hand. So... no real moves. He done nothing and used 0 TU. No aliens near, just friends... maybe he doesn't understand how to use it on peoples?

2. got 9 alien alloys from undamaged landed small scout - is it big or normal amount to XNT?

3. minor viper corpse cost- 300$ and caesian guard corpse 25$ and caesian non combatant 25$. why so different and why non combatant cost same to guard?? (in the question of scalps - i'am most intrested - why a dog cost more than a master, and in the question of corpses of caesians - they are the same race and so cost the same (mast? but officer and other - doesnt!) - so whats the cost rule for corpses? ps... its wonderful to sell alive aliens for more cost... alien organs...waaaagh! ork meds would understand your solution!-)))

4. light scout datacore is always destroyed after 1st auto research and the corvete datacore not and gain money when disasembling? (its only your wish - no money from that little piece? or.. that string is alvays "destroyed" without interest of saving it for bussines?-)) )

5. aliens fire at stunned civs. wow-) doese stunned smell like alive?-))

6. if you demolish command center of the new base before its completion - the base doesn't dissapear and nothing could be build there (ps how to rename it... after naming??-)) )

7. Maybe its to kabill

landship. damagable place in the roof (from damageble hull mod). when the main doors opened with rockets- that damagable place shows and the intresting - it shows the "first floor"(ignoring the second yeah... when you are out from landship) (so when you inside the landship second floor - you see just black tiles). Maybe looking intresting bag with leyers in vanila yeah-))

And + there reaction fire from the second flour to 1st. - aliens do see my soldiers and they doesn't... pity. it like running ducks in the hunting pits-)))

well whats about stationary aliens=turrents, that guard entrances inside? funny plasma-MG dances in the pits... waaaagh again. pity that the attackers are humans, not orks... they doesn't coun't numbers, but bullets-)))

8. electroshock grenade doese 130 stun damage

button 15-40

stun grenade 20. is it right that stun grenade has so small amount of damage in case of speed? in fast fights it useless. right?

9. harridan soldier when hit and killed flying blows and gives no corpse - no money - is it right?

10. Little popup description must be corrected - alienum grenade radius not 1,5 tiles, electroshok grenade not 2. (maybe its just stayed from vanila or i has bad eye on counting?)

11. bug with assaigning "scout" role. - pistol shows under the grenade (alienum developed) in the belt place - and after that - the bug with relocating by dragan&drop soldiers in dropship happened (d&d not availiable to use). but only in that base. maybe because 99% refueling of dropship) or something else doesnt know really. after new launch-and return - all is ok again.

12. no sound of blow alienium grenade when it lands in object (bus or else)...well no sound at all.

13. clicking on a weapon icon (where there bullet type) - if burst used (yellow) - when clicked it doesn't change color but becomes single shot. and the same in return.

funny when it is warhawk (no burst) - it couldn't make bursts so - but it just show "burst" icom when you aim, but with tu=0 (it fires normally - just ones but non understandable number tu used than...)

thats all...

Edited July 15, 2014 by Kirill Selivanov

[blackwolf]

Hi! to every person who is having problems downloading stuff from mediafire, seeing only a plain blank image on the captcha. Well That is caused for add-ons in Firefox and G-Chrome that blocks the publicity pops up...for example i use ADBLOCK PLUS and had the same issue with firefox.

The only thing you need to do is desactivate it (the little ABP simbol in the top right). Click on it and just select the option : "desactivates in mediafire" (is the same with ALL THE ADONs you maybe could use).

Hope this help you .

Edited July 15, 2014 by blackwolf

[Kirill Selivanov]

hi! to every person who is having problems downloading stuff from mediafire and aren't getting the captcha image and are only seeing a plain blank image is caused for add-ons in firefox and google chrome that blocks the publicity pops up...for example i use

ADBLOCK PLUS and have the same issue with firefox..the only thing you need to do is desactivate it(the little ABP simbol in the top right) clicking on it and just selecting the option of "desactivates in mediafire" (is the same with ALL THE ADONs you maybe could use).

not bad, but to mention in chrome... it delete downloadable file because it doesn't like it at all. Solve solution - go to options and unlock the defence from fishing and tradada

[Alewalek]

1.08 HF experimental, XNT 5.3 the latest one core pack downloaded after TD asked for feedback.

During first GC mission 3 live vipers(small one) stuck in ufo and didnt leave. I was shocked when opened door that 3 of them are inside and alive and was terified. But they decided to spare my soldiers and didnt left ufo afer i have closed door and run run run.

When u use flamethorower inside ufo or shot with rocekt luncher into it game frezess. save for check below.

Ok checked again if I shot with rocket luncher into vipers game working fine but if i shoot into ufo left chamber (where there is no aliens)game freezes.

Aditional to that I was reloading saved games few times, when save was made close to the ufo(and you try to reload it), all aliens textures disapear and they where invisible. When I have loaded earlier save before aproch to ufo(2-3turns) I can see them when I open the door(withot loading save game).

Hope u understand waht I mean if needed I can answear all nessesery question tommorow or send more saves 2=3 turns before aproach to ufo.

gc1.sav

gc1.sav

Edited July 15, 2014 by Alewalek

[blackwolf]

yep...google is annoying sometimes...and i just get used to firefox .

@Alewalek downloaded and tried your savegame without problems...you are right..dowloading 3-4 times skip the crash...maybe i was very lucky and just skiped the CTD in the first try.

[p13567]

I really like this mod!

Could be great if there was a description on the new weapons, getting some info for example what's flamethrower accuracy, damage output, etc..

[Sentelin]

@p13567

This has been answered many times by now.Flamethrower just got in the game and we are still unclear whatever stats for that weapon will change and what role will it have in the feature.

If you take look at Xenopedia entries about Advanced Ballistic you will notice that information there is outdated (Not lore or tips but stats of weapon).That wasn't case for the last build.My point is that we change accuracy,damage and other dynamics frequent that writing down weapon stats description is not something we are looking forward (Which is most consuming and boring part of making weapons,because editing those descriptions in strings.xml is biggest time consumer).

We will do it however in near future when we have everything in place until then you can experiment to get full grasp of what each of new and vanilla re-balanced weapons are capable of.I know,I know this is not answer your are looking for and it's not ideal,maybe it's not even answer but excuse and I apologize.However there are other pressing matters that need tending like squashing annoying bugs,balance issues and bringing more exiting content for you to play and experiment with,

So what I am trying to say is that once we get to the point where we won't change system dynamics drastically every single time like we have done so far we will write those damn descriptions (if we write today description next day we may change some mechanics and they become obsolent and need modifying again and so and on ...)

Off the topic:I am glad that you like our mod and we are looking forward to your feedback.

@Alewek

Thanks for reporting that I will check tomorrow.Or someone will do it before that like BlackWolf did.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Sentelin