Xenonauts Issues & Suggestions

[Oggy]

Hi,

I have played trough a bit of Xenonauts and noticed a few things that really bothered me.

Line of Sight:

Enemy and Soldier's LoS is impossible to see. This is VERY frustrating and coupled with some odd decision to prevent the player from moving in contact with some objects like the bush makes this a tactical nightmare for all the wrong reasons.

X-Com has similar problems and was heavily criticized for it. It would be a good idea to learn from them. Your actions should be as clear as possible otherwise the higher the difficulty of the game the more frustration there issue will create.

The LoS should not reset every time I end my turn. I am rather confident that my troops don't have conversion disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_disorder

Some tactical situations have my men shooting from a corner, however, instead of leaning, they shoot right at the corner itself. There is no reason, what so ever, in any universe, movie, or fantasy where shooting at your cover, 30cm in front of you has ever given positive results.

Soldiers:

There is no distinction of any kind among the sprites of my soldiers. They all look like the same copy of the same character with the same weapon. It would be wise to have a variation of some kind, or at least show the names above their head.

My men, can't hit an alien the size of a refrigerator standing still in open terrain 20m away from them and are blind to anything past 30m. I am no expert but that's immersion breaking to me.

Lose the blue uniforms, they have no advantage.

Sounds:

Footsteps are way too loud and having the alien phase transition to a loading screen is so immersion breaking that any ambiance the game created so far goes out of the window. TAKE OUT THE ALIEN PHASE SCREEN !

Tutorials:

Your game needs them.

Here is a good representation of how your soldiers feel in battle:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2192[/ATTACH]

Edited June 2, 2013 by Oggy
Added a pic

[flashman]

sounds may be adjusted, it all depends on the final feel.

Tutorial will be the last thing done at the end, else it will need updating.

The variation and the leaning are all down to sprite sheets. the game uses an old 2D engine that was picked by the initial coder and Chris now regrets but they were too invested in the game to switch engines. This means that every single armour has to be rendered at every single angle doing every single motion with every single weapon and object. Just changing the colour of the armour = 1000's of new sprites. Not saying it cant be done, but it costs a load in time and resources to get it all rendered, checked and put in game.

There have been many discussions on LOS, on squad sight etc and on night vision sight. There will be changes before the end. I agree that an outline showing where your soldier can see would be more user friendly, but it constantly changes depending on the armour that you are wearing.

Edited June 2, 2013 by flashman

[flashman]

The fog of war effect is also a hotly debated topic. Im guessing that what you mean by LOS resetting. At the end of the turn, all areas you cant see fog out. Though it is broken on night missions and blacks out everything, without leaving a silhouette.

[Max_Caine]

The current LoS is going to change. At the moment, LoS is persistent, regardless of whther a solider (or alien) is looking in the direction. LoS persistency will be removed, so you can only see what your soliders actually see.

[Sathra]

And because of how combat works, leaning is unlikely to make it in. It would make it too easy, since you'd have no risk in doing so.

[Oggy]

sounds may be adjusted, it all depends on the final feel.

Tutorial will be the last thing done at the end, else it will need updating.

Allright, and a good thing they will have a tutorial.

The variation and the leaning are all down to sprite sheets. the game uses an old 2D engine that was picked by the initial coder and Chris now regrets but they were too invested in the game to switch engines.

That's no excuse, any engine you take has to be reworked to fit with your game and design choices. It's basically a programmers job to make it work. it's been 17 years since the original X-Com, and we had plenty of time to improve on our coding skills.

This means that every single armour has to be rendered at every single angle doing every single motion with every single weapon and object. Just changing the colour of the armour = 1000's of new sprites. Not saying it cant be done, but it costs a load in time and resources to get it all rendered, checked and put in game.

That's why you have layers in Photoshop and the ability to record and automate the process. It's not a very difficult thing to do and it certainly is not time consuming.

And because of how combat works, leaning is unlikely to make it in. It would make it too easy, since you'd have no risk in doing so.

Not good enough. Any decent game designer would find a way. It can be a reduction in accuracy or your position could be revealed. either way, it's a bad decision on their part.

[flashman]

They dont have access to the engines source code, so all the it can be fixed ideas only work if they could fix it. the game keeps breaking when they try and animate naything and considering you need 2 lean directions for each tile facing- left and right- 4 facings make 8 animations per armour. Now you have about 6 armours- including basic + around 30 weapons means that is 8x6x30 =1440 models. Double that if you want to crouch and lean. Double it again if you want to use 8 directions instead of 4.

These models are done in 3d, the perspective is changed to flatten them. Then they need exporting and painting by the artist. Then they need manually adjusting to ensure that they align correctly.

Only so much time and money. They may have some cash but games are not cheap and sprites are ridiculously time consuming.

Its like the tiles in game. Every tile for every building has to be done in 3D and then exported and painted. But you need 3 tiles for every tile because each tile has 3 states. Normal, damaged, destroyed.

If Chris could change the engine now he would, but its far too along and some things are stuck the way they are.

[flashman]

Also some decisions were made by choice.

[Oggy]

They dont have access to the engines source code, so all the it can be fixed...

...but its far too along and some things are stuck the way they are.

If you want this game to get a good review score and be profitable you should probably stop making excuses for the developer and start sending them some critical feedback on how to fix the damn game. Right now, it's not worth 20$ and if Firaxis games has any brains they will release an HD version of UFO: Enemy Unknown right before this game launces and it will be on GoG for 5$.

Now I like this kind of game and that's why im here giving feedback instead of just uninstalling it from steam.

[Commissar Pancakes]

Whoa now, no need to get agitated.

Are the reasons we brought up an "excuse"? Perhaps. But it does not change the fact that Chris and the devs have on numerous times tried to get in touch with the developer of the engine that Xenonauts uses, to no avail. They will do all they can.

For the blue BDUs, this was a design decision as to make sure that you don't lose track of your units.

The sprites of troopers that look alike? Armor obscures distinctive features at a distance horrendously to the point where you can't even tell if they are male/female.

The horrible accuracy of your troopers? A game design decision to make the game more challenging (because honestly, if a solder who couldn't hit a man sized target with a rifle at 30m was in the army right now, he'd be shoved into a desk position faster than the spent cartridge hit the ground).

[GizmoGomez]

Honestly, good feedback is appreciated. It helps make the game better.

However, some things cannot change at this point.

The game cannot be "fixed", unless you'd like to pay for them to redo the entire thing on a different engine. (Unlikely in the extreme.) The developers are doing the best they can to work around the ridiculous engine limitations and the even more ridiculous engine owners who have refused to respond to any of Goldhawks messages, calls, etc.

In your opinion it's not worth $20. In my opinion, and in the opinions of many many others, it is definitely worth $20, some have even paid hundreds of dollars to support this game. It's not broken, or in need of fixing; it's simply unfinished. If you're expecting a nice, perfect, polished game, then perhaps preordering wasn't for you.

Now for some answers to your complaints:

The soldier images don't all carry the same weapon, there are differences in the sprites for different weapons. If they are actually all carrying the exact same weapon, ie the images are *exactly* the same, then you have discovered a bug and should report it.

The Hidden Movement screen isn't a loading screen. It's a Hidden Movement screen. It says so right on the screen, in nice big letters. It's a throwback to the original X-Com, and most of us like it. It allows the player to hear the aliens movement, attacks, etc, and use that information to better plan our strategy. Besides, (I know you're tired of hearing about immutable facts), the engine cannot skip the aliens turn, it has to have the aliens moving around.

Are there any more questions you have? Most of us here are happy to help.

[Chris]

Chill out, please. Following your opinions will in no way guarantee my game a good review score and profitability, so please don't imply that you speak for game reviewers when you put forward your views, let alone everyone on the planet.

Please also bear in mind the game is in beta, so not finished. That said, a LOS view overlay for your soldiers is a good idea and it's something we're thinking about adding in. Tutorials will be in the final game, and the footsteps volume may be tweaked too.

The blue uniforms were a design decision and I like them, not to mention it making it easy for the player to see their soldiers. But even if the only thing I cared about in the game was making a tactical game, how do you even know the aliens can see the visual spectrum like humans do and don't just see infra-red where colour wouldn't matter? So they'll be staying as is.

I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about with LOS resetting, so please clarify. Are you suggesting you should have LOS to an area you've viewed last turn when you start a new turn? That means you'd be able to see aliens move into areas where nobody is looking, though.

The reduced sight ranges are a relic of X-Com and invoke increased tension at the expense of realism. It's a deliberate design choice and we'd rather be faithful to the source material here. The reduced range / accuracy of weapons follows from this, because realistically nobody would ever miss from that sort of distance and that wouldn't make a fun game.

For the comments about the game development practices, as other posters have mentioned earlier the spritesheets are a limitation of our engine (although if you look, the weapons do appear different). This is an engine we don't have the source code for, so it's not possible to update it. This situation is not ideal, but there's no point commenting on it further because it's not going to change.

[Chris]

Not good enough. Any decent game designer would find a way. It can be a reduction in accuracy or your position could be revealed. either way, it's a bad decision on their part.

Also, I wasn't aware you were the ultimate arbiter of good game design?

Feedback is appreciated but there's no need to be quite so condescending about it. If you actually know as much about game design and development workflows as your posts suggest, you should consider making your own game. You'd make yourself a fortune.

[StellarRat]

If you want this game to get a good review score and be profitable you should probably stop making excuses for the developer and start sending them some critical feedback on how to fix the damn game. Right now, it's not worth 20$ and if Firaxis games has any brains they will release an HD version of UFO: Enemy Unknown right before this game launces and it will be on GoG for 5$.

Now I like this kind of game and that's why im here giving feedback instead of just uninstalling it from steam.

I didn't realize the game needed to be "fixed". I've had a blast just playing the beta. I think $20 is bargain for what you get. This is a thinking game and graphics aren't really that important, IMO. Also, the game has gotten many good preview articles, so your opinion isn't the only one that matters. If you want your own game with all the features you want I suggest raising at least $10 million and getting to work. Skyrim had an estimated budget of close to $100 million.

[alcari]

I think we should chest-high walls everywhere, soldiers that wear grey/brown on grey/brown armor to blend in with the background and make them hard to see. Except where I want to customize them so they stand out a lot. Also they should only expose their guns around the corners so they can shoot without risking themselves. They should be able to see and hit across the map because real soldiers can do that too. Doing otherwise would be unrealistic.

You should also lose the hidden movement screen, so that we don't have any clue what's happening on the other turn and have to piece it out from the start of our turn because that will be much more fun and so much faster.

/snark

/sarcasm

[Orangehat44]

Also, I wasn't aware you were the ultimate arbiter of good game design?

Feedback is appreciated but there's no need to be quite so condescending about it. If you actually know as much about game design and development workflows as your posts suggest, you should consider making your own game. You'd make yourself a fortune.

my favorite part is in bold.

also to op's comment on fraxis making an hd og xcom for 5 $ hahahahahaha. fraxis wont get outta bed for 5$. DLC for xcom eu that added extra wigs and colors to you soldiers was 5 bucks... 3 more missions was$15. I doubt they copy+Paste for less than 5 bucks.

[Spyda665]

I love the hidden movement screen .. its what the Aliens Turn is all about ... Would be nice to see a few different screens tho' ... Just to change things up a little ...

Edit: Actually, I'd be quite willing to make a few if someone could throw me the screen specs, format etc.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Spyda665

[Orangehat44]

that would be sweet. maybe have a timeline to em have a hidden movment screen progress relativly with your tech level and the soldiers getting more and more confident and bad ass.

[thothkins]

all for having multiple Hidden Movement screens (any excuse to mention it). Accessible from a little folder in assets so you can add/ meddle with them as you please.