Let's talk about Xenonauts, shall we?

[Fishman]

Or more specifically, the v18 beta candidate, dear America... ekhem, I mean dear beta-subscribers and developers.

I've downloaded it, played a couple of missions (2? Because the pregenerated crashed ufo reports were upopulated one-turners). There are some things that I need to share with all of you.

The things I liked:

• The look and feel of geoscape. Map instead of globe was a surprise, but a cat is fine too.
  
• The base UI is quite nice. It needs some improvements though - I mean, why the hell are all scientists/technicians not added to new project immediately? There should be at least an option/checkbox.
  

The things I didn't like and should be reworked/changed in the final release:

• Flat maps. Seriously, you really shouldn't do a remake that's actualy worse than the original!
  
• Lack of cover on the maps - the maps are flat AND empty. That's a big no-no for a game that gives big defense bonuses for cover and a big aesthetic issue. By no means I want you to do another cover-system-shooter like XCOM:EU - just make it good.
  
• As there is no map rotation, the soldiers hidden behind obstacles (Chinook) are invisible. You should at least add some kind of transparency "bubble" for them - classic Fallout style.
  
• The battle intreface needs some major rework. Why the hell can I not select "spend all AP on aiming" from the weapon menu?
  
• Why there's no running option for soldiers? As it's a turn-only game, there should be an option to let your soldiers move/flank faster - with some drawbacks as decreased accuracy/spot/sight range.
  
• The kneeling/prone option should also be independent from movement for ergonomics sake - if I tell my soldier to run from cover to cover, he should automatically stand up, dash, and then go prone behind cover. There's a lots of space on the UI for such switches.
  

The things that I'd suggest:

• Make ingame vehicles manned - it would be nice to have drivers gain experience and drive/pilot them even better in time. In the original (and the remakes) they're just a cheap Chryssalid baits as soon as your soldiers gain some experience and/or psi skills.
  
• Make smaller UFOs more prone to destruction instead of crashing, as new aircraft weapons are developed or at least add (researchable?) option like "aim for the reactor" to interceptor attack menu. I'd rather see severely reduced income/loot from scavenging destroyed wrecks (freelance agents option? letting the country that got crashed UFO share most/some of the loot based on country/x-com diplomacy rating?) than purposely shooting smaller ships into the sea or going through 800-th boring scout mission just to avoid the drop in ratings. I've dropped the UFO: Extraterrestrials after it began spawning massive fleets of ships and my geoscape looked like a face of a 14-year old with severe hormonal problems.
  
• Storage space on the transport ship - it should be reasonably weight constrained, but neverthless it's needed there.
  

More to come

[Sathra]

Base UI is being changed soon. There's a post about it somewhere.

Flat maps - due to engine there can't be slopes.

Lack of cover - I agree with this, but having too much would draw out battles unnecessarily due to any cover in the shot path having a good chance to block shots.

Transparency - It does exist for walls, but having it for props (train cars and such) would be good.

Aiming - Right-clicking or scrolling will cycle through the aim levels. Different weapons have different possible aim levels, with Precision rifles having the most at 4 or so.

Running - They actually do run, and since the movement range is actually quite small compared to the maps I don't mind it much. Especially since you don't have to wait for movement to finish on one soldier before telling the next to move. I.e. you can have multiple soldiers moving at once.

Autokneel - Kneeling has tactical implications since in some cases it reduces hit chance as props get more 'in the way'.

Later ingame vehicles are unmanned I think. Also balance issues. You can upgrade the weapons though.

Smaller UFO's stop coming after a while as the game ramps up. Be glad of the early light scout and scout spam. It gets much harder, and the waves and UFO upgrades come increasingly fast and bigger. Shooting down more UFO's actually slow how fast the invasion ramps up which is why the early game seems so slow.

Storage space on the chinook is a long running argument. Here: http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/3324-Dropship-storage-space-and-worldmap-structures?highlight=storage and in a few other threads.

[Fishman]

Flat maps - due to engine there can't be slopes.

Maybe it's time to improve the engine and not use it as an excuse?

It looks really lame right now.

Lack of cover - I agree with this, but having too much would draw out battles unnecessarily due to any cover in the shot path having a good chance to block shots.

Again - it's only a matter of coded coefficients, as it can be avoided by adding a chance to destroy/penetrate cover.

Aiming - Right-clicking or scrolling will cycle through the aim levels. Different weapons have different possible aim levels, with Precision rifles having the most at 4 or so.

And I'm down to tens of clicks every round.

It's really easy to add markers on weapon's image that will let me choose more permanently.

Later ingame vehicles are unmanned I think. Also balance issues. You can upgrade the weapons though.

If you can balance regular soldiers and unmanned tanks, you also can balance manned vehicles.

Besides, it makes much more sense - if the aliens are more technologically advanced, they could easily take control over remotely-controlled vehicles. Besides, in the original game and remakes, they actually played only a role of scout drones later in the game - why use it to kill enemies with no experience gain, while your troops can kill any foe a map away with their blaster launchers and gain exp/accuracy or just use mind control and let aliens kill themselvs?

[Sathra]

Didn't gain XP from blaster launchers though.

Sniper rifles can penetrate cover sometimes, the rest can't. And cover CAN be destroyed, it just takes quite a few shots.

The issue with vehicles is that they can move further, have much better armour, more health, don't have weight penalties and don't take time to repair (not so sure about this last one, but its much shorter than healing time if they have to be repaired). Balancing that if they can also become even better would be troublesome.

[crusherven]

I'm fairly happy with the amount of cover. No offense, but after two missions you can't possibly be competent to comment on how much cover [all] the maps have. Some maps are fairly empty or have large empty spaces. Other maps have a lot more. And you can definitely destroy and/or bypass cover.

Aliens and soldiers being hidden by objects has been brought up by a number of other people. Hopefully we'll see it addressed soon.

I don't want my soldiers to automatically kneel, ever.

I'd agree that air combat could use some tweaking. It's too easy to just use max firepower on everything.

[Assoonasitis]

I'm fairly happy with the amount of cover. No offense, but after two missions you can't possibly be competent to comment on how much cover [all] the maps have. Some maps are fairly empty or have large empty spaces. Other maps have a lot more. And you can definitely destroy and/or bypass cover.

Aliens and soldiers being hidden by objects has been brought up by a number of other people. Hopefully we'll see it addressed soon.

I don't want my soldiers to automatically kneel, ever.

I'd agree that air combat could use some tweaking. It's too easy to just use max firepower on everything.

I dunno. Try intercepting a Corvette with only two craft. It's possible, but you need a MiG and an F-17 or better. And the MiG had better have four torps. But it's certainly not safe every time.

[Sathra]

Doesn't 4 alenium torps drop a Corvette in 1 volley?

[Assoonasitis]

Nope. You need at least another missile, probably two. A MiG with two torps and two missiles and an F-17 with two missiles and a Gatling laser can't take out a Corvette. Damage seems weird in air combat right now.

[crusherven]

I'm sure I've sent a single MiG after a corvette successfully. Vs 2 fighter/1 corvette setup I send a MiG with alenium torps and 2 Condors to deal with the fighters. Is it randomized at all?

To be clear, I'm talking about 4 alenium torps, not 2 torps/2 missiles.

[Assoonasitis]

I've never had four torps take down a Corvette all on their own. The missiles always connect right after the torps and take down the ship.

[crusherven]

I just tested this. Four alenium torpedos will kill a Corvette. This was on normal, though that shouldn't make a difference at this point.

[StellarRat]

I totally disagree with the statement that "all maps are big and open". There is plenty of cover on most maps. In fact, there is too much cover on a lot of them. I don't really care too much about hills. I'm not exactly sure what that would add to the game. A hill is really just the same as a building or other type of cover. All the other points seem to be fairly minor.

[Fishman]

I totally disagree with the statement that "all maps are big and open". There is plenty of cover on most maps. In fact, there is too much cover on a lot of them. I don't really care too much about hills. I'm not exactly sure what that would add to the game. A hill is really just the same as a building or other type of cover. All the other points seem to be fairly minor.

Well, it might be right, as I said, I really played only two full missions and they seem to be the same desert type.

[Assoonasitis]

I just tested this. Four alenium torpedos will kill a Corvette. This was on normal, though that shouldn't make a difference at this point.

I may sit corrected (because there's no way in Hell I'm standing).

[Gauddlike]

Just like to point out that the only way to 'improve' the game engine would be to replace it.

That would be a bad idea at this stage of the game.

It may be possible to work around some of its limitations but major changes cannot be made.

[GizmoGomez]

Maybe it's time to improve the engine and not use it as an excuse?

It looks really lame right now.

Yeah, because redesigning the way the engine works is a simple fix.

Probably unbeknownst to you, as you appear to be relatively new here, the company that owns the engine that Xenonauts uses has refused to give up the source code for the engine so Goldhawk can improve it. Moreover they haven't even returned any of Goldhawk's attempts to contact them.

And I'm down to tens of clicks every round.

It's really easy to add markers on weapon's image that will let me choose more permanently.

There's a UI update coming. If you ask nicely (like many of us have) then maybe we'll get that. (I'd like that too, honestly, but considering the unfinished state of the game I don't mind it too terribly, as long as there's a fix coming.)

If you can balance regular soldiers and unmanned tanks, you also can balance manned vehicles.

Besides, it makes much more sense - if the aliens are more technologically advanced, they could easily take control over remotely-controlled vehicles. Besides, in the original game and remakes, they actually played only a role of scout drones later in the game - why use it to kill enemies with no experience gain, while your troops can kill any foe a map away with their blaster launchers and gain exp/accuracy or just use mind control and let aliens kill themselvs?

Personally, I'm more concerned about killing the aliens then about getting XP. You can decide not to use the vehicles if you want, and try to get XP for all of your troops, but I'd say that it's better to keep your troops alive by letting a drone take the hits, then for your soldiers to gain a rank posthumously.

Also, humans cannot use psionics in the game. As you mentioned, mind controlling aliens made it way overpowered (there's no blaster launcher in the game either, for similar reasons).

[Assoonasitis]

I was going to say, "just get a decompiler!" but then I remembered what happened last time I decompiled one of my own programs: I couldn't read it and I wrote the damn thing.

[Gauddlike]

Plus releasing the game only to get hammered by a law suit for illegally altering the software would not be fun for Goldhawk.

[Assoonasitis]

Plus releasing the game only to get hammered by a law suit for illegally altering the software would not be fun for Goldhawk.

There is that. I hadn't considered.

[GizmoGomez]

I knew earlier, I had simply forgotten. Ha, rotten Diner Dash engine...

[Max_Caine]

Fishman, there have been quite a few threads asking for XP for vehicles (damned if I can find them at the moment). Chris' response was that he wants the game to focus on the troopers, rather than the vehicles. It's not so much a question of balance (although, yes it is that as well), it's a question of theme. The intention for vehicles is to act as scouts, as heavy weapon platforms, as mobile cover, as many things, but they are thematically intended as supporting cast, not stars. You'd have to make a good, well reasoned argument why it's appropriate for vehicles to gain XP, beyond "it would be nice". There would have to be something about it very compelling to ask for a change in intention and direction.

You'll be pleased to know that "older" UFOs do get phased out. As the game escalates, previos UFOs are replaced for newer ones (the underpining narrative is that Xenoauts shares its technology and knowledge with the rest of the world. As nation get better at taking down lighter aircraft, the threats that pop up are the ones that nations can't handle. This also spills over into ground combat. Slowly, over time the friendly AI will upgrade its weaponry from machine guns up to lasers). In previous builds earlier UFOs got phased out very quickly - you didn't see light scouts after the first 10 days of the game! The balance for that hasn't been struck yet, but if you head over to the Geoscape balance discussion, you can bring up your concerns there.

There's also been requests for storage space on the dropship. You're not the only one to ask for that.

[Commissar Pancakes]

Also, think of it this way. There's really no way to improve the stats of a vehicle unless you completely overhaul it.

Firing accuracy depends on the accuracy of the gun.

Reactions depend on how fast the chassis/turret is able to turn.

Speed is dictated on the power of the engine.

Strength? Suspension.

[erutan]

I hear you on being able to sprint/duckwalk/prone - I championed the cause months back but it'd require way too much sprite rendering given the engine.

[Fishman]

Yeah, because redesigning the way the engine works is a simple fix.

Probably unbeknownst to you, as you appear to be relatively new here, the company that owns the engine that Xenonauts uses has refused to give up the source code for the engine so Goldhawk can improve it. Moreover they haven't even returned any of Goldhawk's attempts to contact them.

Wow, weren't expecting that! I was under impression, that Xenonauts are an independent project written from scratch by the current team, so it would be logical that they could modify the engine. Is it a third-party one or dig Goldhawk overtake the project from a previous designer?

Anyway, having an outdated engine with badly limited options for modyfing it doesn't show a good final outcome for the game

There's a UI update coming. If you ask nicely (like many of us have) then maybe we'll get that. (I'd like that too, honestly, but considering the unfinished state of the game I don't mind it too terribly, as long as there's a fix coming.)

That was the whole purpose of my post

Personally, I'm more concerned about killing the aliens then about getting XP. You can decide not to use the vehicles if you want, and try to get XP for all of your troops, but I'd say that it's better to keep your troops alive by letting a drone take the hits, then for your soldiers to gain a rank posthumously.

Well, theres one thing - I tend to treat my soldiers personally in turn-based combat that emphasizes on survival. Aliens in x-com series are basicly near-mindless biological engineered drones/weapon carriers (with the exception of high-rank commanders), while humans are the collection of individuals that wage their lives to protect Earth. With unmanned vehicles it basicly boils down to throwing money at aliens until they die...

Also, humans cannot use psionics in the game. As you mentioned, mind controlling aliens made it way overpowered (there's no blaster launcher in the game either, for similar reasons).

I demand artillery support!

[Fishman]

Also, think of it this way. There's really no way to improve the stats of a vehicle unless you completely overhaul it.

Firing accuracy depends on the accuracy of the gun.

Reactions depend on how fast the chassis/turret is able to turn.

Speed is dictated on the power of the engine.

Strength? Suspension.

You could always just treat it like an armour suit (Panzerkleins! YES! ) that gives certain bonuses/maluses to the soldier "wearing" it. Not that I know anything about the current engine, but the idea doesn't seem to be hard to implement.