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What would be the Less-lethal concept in X2?


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Chris had mentioned several times about the infiltration missions that you need to play in favour of a less-lethal way, and I'm curious that if so, would the less-lethal arsenal from X1 would be expanded. In the original game we only have batons, flashbangs and incapacitating agent (stun grenade), it works pretty well if you want to capture some aliens, but I wonder would they be enough for doing infiltration mission (especially when the human soldiers start to equip gas masks), and would the devs considering adding new weapons (e.g. Tranquilizer darts, riot guns, CS gas and tasers). It would be difficult to balance such weaponry as well, such as if you have taser that can knock out human soldiers instantly or a tranquilizer sniper rilfe that have a relatively long range, they would be too powerful in game as these weapons can work for early stage aliens as well.

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Key thing is to make the stun weapons different. Stun gas is really cool because no lethal weapon works similarly (even the chemical grenade in X-division has a more limited role). If they add riot snipers I will riot.

XCOMFiles has flashbangs that seriously enhance the stun game. They halve TUs, but they also halve melee dodge. You can also bleed out opponents or scare them into surrendering, both of which encourage a mix of lethal and nonlethal.

It's probably not "stealth" missions, because that just doesn't work as a mission unless you go Invisible Inc and add tons of mechanics.

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This is somewhat off-topic, but what about aliens surrendering if their position becomes hopeless?  Yeah, I know, the aliens are essentially lower animals with implanted pain stinulators, so they couldn't usually surrender.  But suppose some human discovers how to neutralize the pain stimulators.  I'd make the alien reactions unpredictable to some extent (e.g.: run away; join the humans; kill self; hunt for alien commanding officer if there's one on the field.

Aw, the balancing problems would probably be endless.

Flashbangs can make an enemy bleed to death?  Really?

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We will see. It comes in the next Beta. After testing it we can say something about, not before. We all only know that special Missions are comming and Stun will be a Main-Part for the advanced up to the superior Research & Development.

Everything else is an absolutely unnessecarry speculation.

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On 5/20/2020 at 10:47 AM, EurekaSeven said:

Chris had mentioned several times about the infiltration missions that you need to play in favour of a less-lethal way, and I'm curious that if so, would the less-lethal arsenal from X1 would be expanded. In the original game we only have batons, flashbangs and incapacitating agent (stun grenade), it works pretty well if you want to capture some aliens, but I wonder would they be enough for doing infiltration mission (especially when the human soldiers start to equip gas masks), and would the devs considering adding new weapons (e.g. Tranquilizer darts, riot guns, CS gas and tasers). It would be difficult to balance such weaponry as well, such as if you have taser that can knock out human soldiers instantly or a tranquilizer sniper rilfe that have a relatively long range, they would be too powerful in game as these weapons can work for early stage aliens as well.

I would seriously love a way to utilize the captured aliens using non-lethal weapons. The last game is just so disappointing with you executing any survivors. I remembered a session where using just gas grenades I knocked out like 4 sebilians and 1 ceasan, I thought I was going to get some new research options but instead all of them get shot after the mission.

There should be also some way of non lethal take down for civilians as well so that they wouldn’t get killed by reapers all the time.

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Yeah, so the plan is to add in tier 1 stun weapons which are the stun baton, the stun gas grenade and probably a relatively weak taser pistol, and then later on in the game you get the Electroshock (or just Shock) weapons which would be a grenade, a pistol and a rifle that all do stun / EMP damage.

The reason why I want to add pistols is because the new secondary slot makes them quite a handy thing to carry alongside a "proper" gun.

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Cool crap I've seen for a no kill run in other games:

Tazer pistol that goes from stun to incinerate (Syphon Filter)

Slow acting hilarious crossbow darts (Deux Ex)

Somehow drug laced harpoon (Terrifying World of Silence)

Witch/Mermaid/Cerberus Sleep and Charm abilities (Tactics Ogre)

Beating someone with a shield of lasers and drugged shotgun shells (Chimera Squad)

Palm Strike (Fallout)

Throwing tarot cards are people (Ogre Battle)

Straight up gas loaded rockets that go through metal (X-Division)

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/4/2020 at 1:25 AM, Coffee Potato said:

Cool crap I've seen for a no kill run in other games:

Tazer pistol that goes from stun to incinerate (Syphon Filter)

Slow acting hilarious crossbow darts (Deux Ex)

Somehow drug laced harpoon (Terrifying World of Silence)

Witch/Mermaid/Cerberus Sleep and Charm abilities (Tactics Ogre)

Beating someone with a shield of lasers and drugged shotgun shells (Chimera Squad)

Palm Strike (Fallout)

Throwing tarot cards are people (Ogre Battle)

Straight up gas loaded rockets that go through metal (X-Division)

I would love to see the Xenonauts battling with human factions like the NATO and Soviet forces with only non lethal weapons so that you can still complete your objectives and favour without worsening the relations too much. While capturing any alien we fought, interogating them for information like running an alien version of American black sites. A separation between EMP weapons and poison gas/bullets at first then upgrading to more advanced neural shutdown guns could be really cool.

Some different ammunitions that works by draining the enemy's TUs or constantly supressed them to the point that it forced them to drop their weapons and temporarily flee like the Dishonored 2 stinging bolts could be very effective as well.

https://dishonored.fandom.com/wiki/Stinging_Bolts

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  • 4 months later...
On 5/22/2020 at 6:51 AM, maxm222 said:

Flashbangs can make an enemy bleed to death?  Really?

Flashbangs are still explosives in a metal casing, just ones optimized to release blinding light and a concussive blast. Tasers generate debilitating electrical shocks capable of inducing cardiac arrest, and beanbag/foam rounds can kill if fired from too short a distance or strike the wrong part of the body. Thus why the technical term for them is less-lethal, not non-lethal.

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Grimbach said:  "Flashbangs are still explosives in a metal casing.."

Thanks for the info, but I was just questioning whether it was correct that in the game flashbangs could cause bleeding because I hadn't noticed it.  I have noticed that popping smoke can and does damage units standing too close in the game.  I don't know about smoke in real life (where, as you pointed out, flashbangs can injure people), but I assume something has to pop open the smoke canisters. 

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58 minutes ago, maxm222 said:

...in the game...

Very true, I am ultimately getting hung up about realism in a game.

Quote

...something has to pop open the smoke canisters. 

In the vein of realism, smoke grenades are actually a significant fire hazard, as generating the smoke is an exothermic process. There's no explosives though, so you're unlikely to get a penetrating or lacerating injury from a smoke grenade. In this case, it's actually unrealistic that smoke grenades would injure units standing too close, at least as depicted in game. That said I'm also unaware of any (infantry portable) smoke grenades that instantly disperse a large cloud of smoke, instead they emit a cloud over time and may take some time to build up to a useful thickness, and they're also highly subject to wind.

Having said all that, I'm now wondering of the Xenonauts purloined smoke canisters from a main battle tank, as those would have the instant dispersal seen in game... They'd also block thermal optics and be completely blinding to Sebillians... Perhaps it's best I don't deep dive and just accept the game as it is.

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8 hours ago, Grimbach said:

Perhaps it's best I don't deep dive and just accept the game as it is.

Heh-heh, probably so.  I've found the realism of some military games (Combat Mission, for one) sobering in terms of terms of the constraints of even approximate reality.  Although it sure is a challenge, by golly!

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