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Has the community dragged this back to being X1 with a new coat of paint?

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1 hour ago, TrashMan said:

Nah, the annoying gameplay gimmick aside, the concept itself is what I hate.

The idea of data having a physical form, ignoring the laws of physics and being defeated with bullets is so utterly retarded it offends me on a deep level.

Very much this. The entire concept reeks of contrivances and nonsensical lore breaking just to replace a concept like alien commander interrogation (which can be done far better) with some more more mindless combat with an extremely annoying enemy. Seriously if the advent can do this, why do they even need to be a physical species at all? Why can’t they just transcend their physical forms and live out their days in gigantic matrioshka brains and live out their existence in perfect paradise to the heat death of the universe itself? Their design is also generic as hell, just another humanoid with a gun and some terrible techno textures pasted on. Even the Typhons from Prey were more visually unique.

1 hour ago, TrashMan said:

That would be an interesting mechanic.

The game has the alien mothership moving around the map, nuking big cities, with smaller UFO's hitting smaller settlements and doing terror attacks.

You would be in a race against time to find a way to stop the mothership while there's still something left to save (and before humanity surrenders, although technically, you could still keep the game going after that, since you refused to surrender)

That’s pretty much what I proposed on the secret war thread for the second phase of all out war for the game. At first, the aliens only try attacking in remote areas to test our defenses. Then they start building bases and assassinating key VIPs and supporting certain third world countries to increase the DEFCON level and hopefully induced a WW3 scenario where they rule over the survivors. When that got foiled by Xenonauts, they would declare all out war with the Xenonauts desperately leading the charge to find a way to destroy their mothership in orbit while protecting the last remnant of the new world government (which based on your choices can be the NATO, the Warsaw Pact or even a new UN puppeted by Xenonauts). This will lengthen the game considerably and make the end game much less boring.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Xeroxth said:

I think it would just be far better to just make a whole new enemy with tweaks to its AI, vision cone and weapon/skill load outs maybe different versions of already existing aliens. For instance an enemy that’s can fly like a Harridan but heavily armored and specialized on assault weapons like melee stun clubs, shotguns that can make fast attacks into the middle of your group of soldiers. Or an alien with a  beam weapon/heavy artillery that can kill you soldiers in groups but is extremely lightly armored and need a turn or two to lock on to target, basically our version of a Doom Archville. Hell just an enemy that have two stages with the first being ranged and the second being melee focused would change the game base considerably. Or even a healer/mechanic alien. Or a trapper alien. The variety of game mechanics for enemies are limitless.

The problem with that, of course, is that it takes time to implement! And the natives are starting to get restless for a release date. Perhaps it's the time for them to start thinking about putting in a bigger "bang for our buck" and this just strikes me as one simple way of doing so. Someone lamented the disappearance of the Foxhound earlier, and yes, I totally understand this generic new F-16 retro-fit type mechanic (i'm indifferent to it because, although it means less diversity, we all know that the F-16 can carry Heavy, as well as light missiles). But for me at least, the focus of the work should be on the ground combat since it is the core of the game and what we are all really playing it for. More variation and better AI. And if there's a simple way to get that then so much the better. That's not to say, of course, that the air combat bit should remain as flawed as it was in xen 1 (it gets a bit dull toward the end of the game). I think Chris is doing his best to address that though.

Edited by ooey

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Folks, Comrade has a point about the direction this thread has taken. If you want to discuss new and exciting alien types for X2, it would be super cool if it had its own thread then everyone knows where to go to discuss cool new aliens. 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Max_Caine.

To end this Discussion, yes the Game will be a Mix from working Elements from X1 and completely new Elements with many surprises for the Xenonauts 2-Baseversion. This have to be done to get not a to big Time-Difference to the originally Plan. With the Reworks of the Base and testing several Airfight-Systems the Devs lost about 5 Month Development and 3 more Beta-Versions with new Gameelements for an working Early Access.

In my Eyes (after I could test Phoenix Point and play XCOM EW / XCOM 2 Wotc) I can only say that Xenonatus 2 is the perfect implementation from both big Competitors. And that is only the Baseversion for Xenonauts 2. With planed DLC´s some of the makeshift things (like Base-Building) will then be overworked.

The only thing is, that UFO2Extraterestials comes in the next time, which will be the latest comparision, because XCOM 2 WotC gets slowly old for that.

Edited by Alienkiller

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In line with the original thread, I'm also kinda disappointed to see the game become less Xenonauts 2 and more Xenonauts the Remake. I'm not going to refund, I backed because I wanted more XCOM games in the world, not because I was sold on shadow wars and vertical bases. I was however, excited to see them in action and while the art shown off recently has been less than stellar compared to what was in the kickstarter, I believe there will be improvements. Games that reuse assets in development typically do so on a temporary basis after all.

Right now, though, my biggest hope is that Xenonauts 2 will be like War of the Chosen. It didn't fundamentally change XCOM2, but it did add on enough bells and whistles to be an excellent addition.

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Posted (edited)

I didn´t refound too, because I know that Changes in Alpha- and Beta-State are normal. But you are right, some Changes I don´t like too. My hope is that these Changes are only a makeshift to get the Main-Version of the Game running. That mean especally the Base Building-Screen. The orignal ATLAS-Base was great and most of the Testers loved her. Sadly she made Problems so that the Devs had to change to a makeshift similar to X1.

On the other Hand, Phoenix Point has an similar Base Building-Screen (it´s from the orignal Developer of the orignal X-Com). And I don´t think UFO2ET has an better System, which will come in September 2020. The only difference is that the Structures and the internals are better shown. 

Other Changes like a complete reworked Geoscape, the orbital Bombardement, Special Missions, Agents, Armor- and Weapon-Upgrades, Modulable Fighters and so on are great new stuff.

 

 

Edited by Alienkiller

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Hello all,

   I don't often write on the boards, but I stop by every now and again to check up on progress.  I played the original Xcom when it first came out, as i suspect many others have.  I played the other versions and incarnates as they showed up over the years.  The Firaxis Games versions being the least enjoyable.  The OP asked if it was just xenonauts 1 with a new paint job and I feel that  so far Goldhawk has done as much as they can to put forth new challenges and implement new capabilities.   There are things like the base structure and operations that are reminiscent of xcom 1, xenonauts 1 and so I voted for this style of base building over the a single ant hill style.. like what Firaxis implemented.  To me, letting a base assault mission though every now and again to test my troops and defensive capabilities is fun.  The first time the orbital Bombardement went off I was impressed and I was started of thinking of ways that Goldhawk was going to have me deal with this new challenge.  The new panic geoscape system is another new and exciting aspect of game play. The armor and weapon upgrades so far are i feel like great additions and step fowards in the realm.  I don't like to play too much of Beta's and Alphas other than to see how the path is looking at the moment. Right now I'm impressed and glad I was able to help back this game.  For me X2 isn't just a X1 with a new paint job it has more meat where it needs it with the same great flavor I've come to know and love. 

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Therfore the Game is still in the internal Betatest and not for Public. There are many Job Sites to be done, refited and overworked. The first big overwork of Groundmaps, UFO´s, Transports, Bases and much more get done in Beta 14. As well as the Special Missions should get playable which are atm only automatic.

The last 2 DevDirays here an in Kickstarter are very interessting and the complete Rework reduce the Problems the Game have at the Moment. If we get lucky an new Betatest with all new refits and overworks can start this Month, but from what I read it could be next month.

The Game has big differences to it´s predecessor.

1. You have less Materials to work with, you have to decide more to use upgraded Standardweapons (light Magnetic) / Magnetic Weapons / Standardlaser (Engergy Weapons) / Upgraded Laser (improved Engery Weapons) or Plasma Weapons (best Weapons at the End). The Same with your Armor, Vehicles and so on.

2. There are new Special Missions which more Materials, Snitches (Human / Aliens) and other things to find. Belongs on the Mission to eleminate or Caputre. That Mission are atm automatic.

3. You can help the Founders to reduce the Panic with special things (which I don´t name about the surprise). The new and secret Alien-Space-Station raise the Panic with her Orbital Bombardement.

4. Terror and light Terror Mission get overworked to come in more Eras. That will be done with Point 1.

5. You have Outposts which gives you Personal and more Money on the Geoscape. The Outposts have to be in Range of a Base from you with Aircover and have to be build up which costs Money and Time.

6. And many more which is comming, esp. for Research Reports, Production, Basemanagement and similar things.

Most of that we could test, but with the third refit / rework of some Main Game Elements we Betas have to beginn von 0 on again.

 

Edited by Alienkiller

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Yep Windows is the System for Gameplay. If you wanna Play Computergames you have to use Windows or play on Consoles with a CD / DVD / Blu-Ray like the Playstation.

To import such Games for IOs or Linux is to heavy and costintensive, because you have to reduce contents or Graphics if you lucky. If not you have to rewrite the complete contents for IOS or Linux which no Devstudio will do, esp. the little and medium ones.

Firaxis tried this with the first XCOM incl. DLC. XOM 2 isn´t for Linux and IOs. You see what I mean. It´s easyer to make a Game for PC and Console about the same Programming Code.

So you have 2 decissions now:

1. You use a Console or a PC with Windows for Gaming.

2. The other way you can do is that you make on the same PC an Linuxpart for Working and an Win10 Part for Gaming. I did that long time ago, to play Games which were running in Win XP and Games which better run on Win 7.

 

Edited by Alienkiller

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On 9/15/2020 at 2:31 PM, dasufo said:

The biggest challenge I had with Xenonauts 1 was that the tactical battles attracted me to the game but the strategic layers was far more important in order to get victory ...  However, the strategic layer had not been given the same detail and attention the tactical layer had.

Personally, my inclination would be for the game to have parity in the importance of the strategic and tactical layers of the game. That said, the point you raise is interesting. When the player is losing interest in the tactical missions, that is a pretty bad sign. I think part of the problem is in the interaction between the two. In the strategy layer you spawn the missions and gear up your soldiers. In the tactical layer you complete the mission and bring back artefacts for research. But that is about it. Most of the consequential actions stay in their respective layers e.g. soldier survival, aircraft weapons tech. If there were more scope to play a ground mission in such a way that it would positively impact the strategic game, I think that would solve both problems. e.g. if you hit a certain secondary objective on the ground, then it would affect the spawning of the next wave of UFOs. That way, you have some flexibility as to which layer of the game you want to put more effort into.

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Oh belive us hard working Betatesters. Surprises and many Type of variable Missions you will get enough. Not only like in the predecessor shoot down UFOs and getting Artifacts to research as well as Terror Missions.

There will be Missions like save him / her (politican, Soldier and so on), investigate an unkonown location, arrest an interrogate an human Traitor (Mind Controled or Voluntary) and so on to the normal Missions you have (big Terror, light Terror, UFO Crashsites, landed UFO´s, Alien Base and Defend your light to medium build up R&D and Soldier-Bases as well as the fully Main Base).

Then you have surprisses in the Ground Missions if you are to slow after doing some special things as well as in the Geoscape (which are announced in an other Dev Diray some time before).

Like said your Ressources are very very limited against the Predecessor so you have to decide wisely for what you use them. Build up better Weapons, Armor or the Tank / Airforce first after the Standard Upgrades for existing things are done at the beginning?

And more surprises for the R & D-System as well as for your Bases comes too. It´s more then a refit from the Predecessor. Everything the Devs couldn´t bring in in Xenonauts 1 is now in Xenonauts 2 as well as more Ideas and not finished thingkings from competitors. If we can show the Public some Vids with the frist new Impressions then you all know what we hard Working Betatesters and the Devs mean.

That means too, the Game need more Time of Development, because many more or less working things have to be reworked / refited and upgraded, like the fully Maps and the Mars / Fighters and UFO´s for example.

 

Edited by Alienkiller
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On 9/16/2020 at 12:55 PM, dasufo said:

Another thing I hope for is better native Linux support.  I went and bought another copy of Xenonauts 1 from GoG to try and get the community edition working on my linux box.  After a lot of messing around (and getting the firm belief that I need to do more online linux courses) I thoughtfully considered the fact that Xenonauts 2 Early Access will be Windows-only, that Xenonauts 1 doesn't run very well on linux (as the forum posts suggest there are often graphical inconsistencies and save game corruption) and that the Community Edition is apparently aimed at Windows-only, and as a result have got together a windows box to run Xenonauts-XYZ on.  I don't know how long I can justify such a set up, but for the near future I think it will work.

I appreciate that the majority of players, at least at the moment, are on Windows and that the development has to aim at the platform its core market is running the game on.  Unfortunately, the administration that runs Microsoft (I did a bit of research before I changed to linux) has profoundly changed since the Windows 7 days and I cannot agree with what they want for their company anymore.  I say this incase anyone misunderstands this post, it's not because I'm "that type of person" who wants to inflict a cost on everyone else because of their preference, but instead it is because I don't feel comfortable about where the Microsoft Corporation is going and what using their products will entail in the future.  

I already play X2 on Linux, and it works fine despite the lack of official support. Unity games really tend to work quite well on Linux as long as they do not use any graphical features that are too fancy. DXVK takes care of getting the graphics working on Linux, while the core game code can be expected to work because it's .NET. Unity has for a long time targeted the Mono redistributable for .NET support, so that should work as well on Linux as it does on Windows (and of course MS .NET is also cross-platform these days).

I would have released Linux versions of X:CE if I could. That was never possible unfortunately. I have the source code to the game itself, written by Goldhawk, but I don't have the engine's source code. It's only available as a bunch of libraries for Windows (I think Mac versions exist), not Linux, and only in binary form. Goldhawk never had that source either. As a result, building native Linux versions wasn't possible, not easily at least. The game is finnicky enough as it is, and only compiles "as is" with a particular version of the MSVC compiler, too.

In fact X:CE was also the reason to keep a separate box for me - I released a small X:CE patch earlier this year, which required me to boot that box for the first time in over a year. This inconvenience is a major reason why there will probably be no more X:CE updates.

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On 9/15/2020 at 8:31 PM, dasufo said:

However, the strategic layer had not been given the same detail and attention the tactical layer had.  It really felt awful having to spend all my attention on the less detailed, less loved part because frequently I would lose if I didn't.  The killing blow for me was when I started to want to autoresolve the tactical fights because they just felt far too much work for far too little reward.  It led to me modding the game (quite significantly) to swing the balance towards the tactical combats and away from stressing upon the economic gameplay.

This is a really good point. I think the strategic layer of the first game had its faults in that it offered to little options in playing and because of that railroad many players who are not really fond of the dogfights into a dead end. I think their could be some good foundation for fixes already established in X2. For instance the ability to build non base structures. This can offer huge possibilities for players that hates the air combat by simply replcace air coverage with static missile bases that can be upgraded with more advanced weapons and defenses as time go on and relations with the regional faction improves (ie having soviet or Nato troops garrisoning or energy shiels to negate bombardment entirely). The biggest difference will be that the placement of these structures will not change at all and is bought from a friendly region. The air defense with static structures will then force the aliens to concentrate on attacking to missile platforms by landing troops and capture them which in turn will make the game more focused on ground combat. If you dislike such a thing then the structures can serve as debuffing for the alien vessel fighting above their zone of influence while buffing your own aircraft by showing the UFOs stats and health.

Even the secret agent mechanics at first teased by early versions of X2 can be further expanded as a gate way for special factional missions (assassination, protection, kidnaping VIPs; foiling alien deals; wiping out gangs smuggling of alien tech; sabotaging Nato/Soviet efforts to gain relations with their opponent or increase your control in the two factions,...). Or something as simple as adding another level of complexity in interogating alien prisoners which always disapointed me in the first game where redundant captured aliens were just unceremoniously put to death rather than used as moles, snitches,...

On 9/17/2020 at 9:56 AM, dasufo said:

Now, part of this is because of the narrative.  Realistically, any organisation set up to counter a world wide invasion would have unlimited funding and more manpower than you could fit in a military base.  You wouldn't have to build bases, you'd be given charge of entire locations pre-established with extensive resources at hand for you to command.  Aliens would be fought with tanks and artillery, entire buildings would be demolished to stop some of the more deadly creatures that get sent.  Hundreds if not thousands of men would descend upon a group of 8 to 10 aliens and pile on top of them, literally, if required to stop them.  In short, you'd never bother with the absurdity of an international counter-terrorist-alien special forces unit.

Ah but this is on the context of the setting comes in to play. The aliens pretty much have full space superiority and has used it to wipe out most of the two main super power's military with their orbital bombarments and any further mobilization is still crippled due to power play and paranoia of the cold war. Xenonauts was stuck in the middle of this and only proved their effectiveness at the first stage of the invasion but still looked at with suspicion by the two major benefactors. The aliens clearly don't want complete annihilation of Earth because they would have done so from the start, so maybe they only want to colonize Earth and subjugate the native populance the same way major British corporations started the colonization of India. Which mean the actual funding of Xenonauts is kept secret from the rest of world and the invaders. Which means any actions of the Xenonauts is disavowed by both powers. That's my take on the event anyway.

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If possible we show you pictures from the new Version and the refit / rework as well as other improvements which have been done after Beta 14 is stable as possible.

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Sorry - not reading through the trhead chain just posting to the title: I hope it is Xenonauts with a new coat of paint and extended/improved mechanics

I enjoyed Xenonauts 1 quite  bit but it had some rough edges (inconsistent art) and a simplification I didnt like (ammo) so my etalon is still the original XCOM

The games that were trying to capitalize on the original all concentrated on MGMT of a small squad instead of MGMT of an actual army on a strategic layer which I could never get behind. Though I enjoyed the Firaxis remakes, they are far too simnplified and streamlines for console for me to have replay value

Maybe I am in a minority but I really didnt care abouth reanming and pampering solderis in the original and was usualyl sending 4 fireteams to missions with around 50% accepted casualty rate. This gave the game a much more interesting strategic feel as I was not managing soldiers but an army with resources and equipemnt and funds was more important then who gets shot - no save scumming needed for this which is also a plus

When I read abouth Xenonauts 2 and the concepts going in the direction of the Firaxis remakes I lost interest of the project: for me the first game was interesting as it kept the strategic mechanics of the original and extended upon them especially in air combat. When I was thinking of Xenonauts 2 the improvements that could be made seemed obvious:

0. Better coat of paint :)

1. More mechanics involving countries and/or regions - diplomacy, resource production (oli, metals, rare metals, food, supplies) or even supporting locla forces so they can defend, fight back and assist during missions in their own region

2. More base MGMT options with various types of defenses, base types, building upgrade options and having to repair them after invasion causes damage during bombardment or in the tactical mission

3. Pilots gain EXP, pilot suit upgrades to increase reaction time, precision or simply enable them to survive when plane is shot from under them

4. More beefy research enabling building of drones, droids, weapon/ammo upgrades etc...

5. Damaged UFOs and destructable hull

6. More mission types: defend diplomats, scientists, kill enemy commander (there are some ideas that can be picked and refined from the remakes: see behemoth idea from Poenix Point)

Now having stumbled upon the recent pictures posted on Steam I am very much interested in Xenonauts 2 again: both the new armor and airplane model look more consistent and the mars pattern tank concept sounds interesting

Despite what some were saying when the Firaxis remakes came out, I dont think they streamlined the original: they created a new game that has totaly different approach to how it is played. Those games are abouth super-heroes killing of hordes of aliens and looking cool doing so. For me the original was a gritty attribtion war agaisnt a superior enemy force and a race against time to reach their level of tech to be able to stop them - I thin that this game was only realyl remade by Xenonauts 1 so far and as of late by Phoenix Project which I will try I as soon as it leaves Epic. But will also be very much interested in Xenonauts 2 if it is realyl "just" a new coat of paint and more in depth mechanics from the first game :)

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