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Has the community dragged this back to being X1 with a new coat of paint?

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They are in, you haven´t seem them yet if you are Beta-Tester.

1. The Base-Buildup looks the same as in X1, but you can identify the Buildings much better now. And you can set Technicans as well as scientists to other Baseparts (like Workshop, Labs or Sikbay).

2. The Fighters get new Suspensions for Armor etc.

3. The Geoscape gets recruiting Missions for Scientists, Workers or if you are full you can choose Money.

4. The Geoscape gets spezial Missions too against the Aliens and spezial Alien-Missions which all are time limited.

And much more you have to find. The most things are still WIP, but there are much changes in the Game already and others which will come in for more Beta-Versions and first Early Access Versions until the Game is finalisied.

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Phoenix Point is good example of how introducing new mechanics that deviate from original for sake of change can harm gameplay.

Lot of combat problems there came from developer trying to mix things up by introducing XCOM2-based class and abilities, which unfortunately did not turn out to mix well with the design of UFO Defense. The battle is almost entirely skill-dependent at the cost of other tactical elements, and ironically leads to reduced variety in team composition (if you don't go with "correct" build of heavy/sniper or shotgun/sniper, end game becomes near unplayable difficult). Making power difference between rookies and veteran too strong has also led their difference in performance to be too different, making soldiers less disposable and making gamers less inclined to be favourable toward perceived unfairness of aliens. In short, Phoenix Point is suffering because it's been designed as realistic strategy game while new element has shifted the game towards gotta-nuke-everything-in-single-turn puzzle style of XCOM2 battle.

While sequel is good opportunity to add additional mechanics that support the original gameplay, I am glad Goldhawk Studio is choosing to build a solid well-proven foundation first, because then the developer can add new elements based on that foundation and also track how it affects game design.

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The Game isn´t ready yet and they have changed many things back to a working Process. Yes there are new Games which have a better concept or Programming, but this games are in the Future. XCom / XCom 2 and Phoenix Point are playing in 201x to 21xx.

But there are only 3 Games which brings the Story to the real UFO- and Alien-Story-Beginning. Xenonauts and Xenonauts 2 is doing that with a tactic / strategic Game (like the orignal X-Com). And XCom: Bureau, which is a Shooter and a Prequel to the new XCom-Series. They are playing in that time, where the cool UFO- and Alien-Time was (from 1950 to 1980s).

I wasn´t impressed of the changes which get in since the last versions too, but if that was needed to make the Game fully playable, then it has to be so. And the Community was asked about that. For that give the Community the blame, which botched that and not the Developers.

But we will get missing things implemented (which weren´t in the orignal X-Com-Series and Xenonauts 1), overworked Standards etc. Next year I think Feb. / March all "normal" Gamers can see what has changed to the original Xenonauts and Games which Xenonauts 2 is constructed on. And how good the Beta-Testers did their work.

 

 

Edited by Alienkiller

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I am very concerned about this game, its not even xenonauts 1.5 its just the first one in 3d. None bought the first one for the graphics and the second one looks like a game from 2004 so thats not going to be a selling point. So i have to ask. whats the point of this game ? same soldiers same buildings same aliens, weapons, research, geoscope, air combat, mission types everything is the same.

Here is what they could to differently. how about a game set in the 80 after a nuclear apocalypse. the aliens land their ships in the hotspots(randomly generated) and you have to fight them off.One thing that always bugged me about xcom is how convention military is pretty much absent but in a nuclear apocalypse this makes sense. Instead of underground bases make towns, buildings are actual buildings, you get funding from the civilians in your cities(that you have to rescue). add mutating soldiers,psionics and rad resistant power armour.

Yea i know its too late now but im seriously not going to buy xenonauts 3d , its pointless

Edited by fall19

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If you don´t like it, don´t buy it.

Frankly speaking I´m in some Parts not happy too about the Game-Change to some older Things with 3D Look. But if the Game is then stable, bugfree and everything works we can be happy about it. It´s better than an Game from a big Company which has everything new and you can´t play it. But therefore the Devs here tried new things, which were good but not stable / workable enough.

It´s like the good old X-Com and new XCom-Series. Take that what is working and upgrade the Game with Missing things and / or Changes on the Geoscape, Airfight etc. Xenonauts 2 remembers me exactly on X-Com 2 Terror from the Deep, which get the good things from X-Com 1 Enemy Unkown and Missing Things / Changes.

Actually it´s in Xenonauts 2 with it´s Beta-Version 10. You don´t have the cool new Base which were announced on Kickstarter anymore, but an cool Upgraded Base-System with 3D Look and other Features. It look like a mix from the new Base Concept (with some cool Features) and the old Basebuildup-Screen in 3D. If they have brought in the Limitation-Things which I said for the Secondary- and Tertiary-Bases (because the First-Base "ATLAS" is your Main-Base with Research, Attack-Soldiers etc.) then it feels much better like UFO:ET from 2007. 

The Devs then decided to use stable things from the first Game which are working without Problems, because the Beta-Testers are doing her Job great up to now. If the Beta-Testers say that and that don´t work after XXXXXX-thounsend fixes, reworks etc. then it´s better to use something older that works. And that has be done so far and will be done in further Development in some Parts.

And the Base-Concept in 3D is going back to a Q&A-Thing from the Devs which were asking the Community. And I think 80 % wanna have the old Buildupbase-System back. That we have now in 3D, which looks cool. Same with the Airfight-Concept, which the Devs have to fix some things there to make it perfect.

 

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Personally, I've pretty much given up with this game now. It really is X1 in 3D. Lots of good suggestions along the way have been ignored or batted away by the devs. Such a shame, because it could have been a fab game. I wouldn't contribute to another kickstarter project based on this experience. 

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You're saying this as if an improved Xenonauts is a bad thing and it has to be something completely different.

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That was my impression too after the ATLAS-Base was gone (the Base which is shown in Kickstarter) in the last Chances from the Beta-Versions. But there are much improvements already in the Game and many more are still comming.

The Game won´t be 100% Kickstarter-Promised about things not working correctly which were sheduled for Xenonauts 2. So it will be 60% new (special Missions in the Geoscape, Upgrades for Weapons and Armor, Secondary Weapons etc.) and 40% overworked (Basebuilding, Airfights, Standard-Groundmissions). If the Game runs fine then, instead to have a unplayable End-Version (like in the most big Companys), it will be so. It´s better to have a 40 % overworked Game and 60 % new Things / integrated things, then a 0 % playable Game.

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I feel like the trajectory of the project is going where it needs to so far, based on how features have evolved. 

Ant farm base was neat, and my vote had been to keep it. That being said, the current base system feels a lot less awkward, and setting up base defense like original XCOM really got me excited. 

Other features seem to be getting spruced and planted across the board, so no complaints from me. I wanted Xeno with better presentation, mod potential, and more interesting options, which seems to be happening. 

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I'm also disappointed by all the changes that got dialed down or cut back... but I also felt that way about some of the changes made during Xenonauts development, so I'm trying to give Chris/Goldhawk the benefit of the doubt and wait to see how it all shakes out.  The end result will probably still be a pretty good game, even if is more of a remake than a truly original work.

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Something I would like is being able to know what the androns truly are. I love the fluff there is on the first game, plus what the Lore+ mod adds, and I would love to see that area expanded on the second game. As long as the game feels different enough without making radical changes I'll be happy. Also, this is a crazy idea of mine, but it would be amazing if I could "hack" an andron and use it for my own purposes, since it's hinted they're sentient beings that were reprogrammed as war machines (I don't know if that's on the base game or in the Lore+ mod)

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Posted (edited)

Well what is a 2 game supposed to be?

It is supposed to be similar to the first game. So of course Xenonauts 2 should be very similar to Xenonauts 1. It should have been a continuation of the story in Xenonauts 1 with new features and gameplay arising naturally from that continuation of the story.

Instead the original plan for Xenonauts 2 looked like a really bad version of Xcom: EU. But people got behind Xenonauts 1 in the first place because it wasn't like Xcom: EU. So really the problem was that Xenonauts 2 wasn't originally a continuation of Xenonauts 1!

 

From what I saw of the original changes it was Xcom: EU with worse graphics and worse gameplay. When they made Xcom: EU they decided to heavily focus on making the game a turn based squad game and so creating things like an action cam, soldier abilities, awesome graphics, etc. Xenonauts 2 however would have none of that. It would only have the superficial changes everyone hated about Xcom: EU. Specifically the change to a single base being constructed anthill style and air combat that boiled down to RNG.

 

A good upgrade from Xenonauts that would make satellite bases useful is to allow satellite bases to hold troop units that be used to auto resolve ground combat and create heavier restrictions on the ability of Xenonaut crews to run back to back missions. This would require the player to maintain multiple units ideally in multiple locations to combat the multiple downed aircraft. And since most of the battles will be resolved via an automated system the player won't get bored and tired of resolving the multiple downed UFOs. Nor will they feel they are missing out if they auto resolve the UFOs and therefore feel like they have to play through every single one. This was a huge fault in Xenonauts 1.

Edited by Shahadem
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Personally, already played beta more than I've played first game. Small little changes here and there made it more enjoyable.

- Like ability to break UFO walls make ground mission feel much less grindy as exactly the same UFO can now be breached in a different way

- New way of management of Scientist/Engineers feels more engaging, previous version was more of "how much money I spend on these guys" type of thing

- I'm loving new sounds, weapons sound like they have a good punch behind them

- reworked aliens and characters look pretty good in 3D and it's easier to read "specials"

There are other things but this is just what jumped immediately to mind.

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Considering Xenonauts is one of my favourite games of all time (even surpassing UFO: Enemy Unknown), I'm eager to see Gold hawk's finished product. Remember that things can be added by the mod community.

It would be, perhaps, nice to see some alien weirdness (such as floating eyes) thrown in though...

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