Ground Combat Balance - V22 Experimental 9

[Max_Caine]

I don't think 12 turns isn't long enough before the big reveal in a terror site. Now terror sites aren't one big scrap outside the dropship, the maps take longer to play and I find myself getting to about half to two-thirds across the map before the rest of the map is revealed.

Additionally, with the cold war maps I see there are strongpoints, which would be great focusses of attraction, but strongpoints are only ever manned by one solider AI which quickly gets wiped out. Any chance the solider AIs could be all grouped near the strongpoints?

[ventuswings]

I'm still unconvinced that map reveal on terror mission should be mandatory rather than optional. As alternative, having it based on number of aliens alive rather than the turn spent would be also interesting and avoid encouraging cheese waiting tactics.

[KevinHann]

Why is it so hard to leave some options optional rather than mandatory? Is it that complex to code it or maybe it would cause plentitude of additional bugs?

[kabill]

I't mainly UI that's complicated, I think. It already is optional, in a sense, since you can quite easily mod the value (it's in config.xml, I think). But adding in UI to support it would be a lot of work relative to the effect, I imagine.

[KevinHann]

Why not just throw in an option in game settings menu? "Toggle map reveal on/off" will take that much work?

I wouldn't be so picky on these if I knew they could be modded in at some stage or at least there was a chance Goldhawk would revisit them in the future but either seems bordering impossible right now.

[kabill]

My experience with coding UI - albeit as someone who was trying to teach themselves to code at the time - is that it's more complex than it looks. (It took me longer to build a menu screen than it did to build a working algorithm for producing randomly generated maps!)

I imagine it wouldn't be a huge amount of effort if you're not doing it from scratch and know what you're doing, mind. But I also imagine there's ultimately more important things that GH could be doing a week before the game goes into lockdown. Especially as it's a 10 second edit in a game file to turn it off.

(I've not actually gotten around to playing a terror mission with the reveal map function, but ultimately it's not a feature that I imagine will add very much for me, so I'll probably mod it out at some point and could easily upload the file.)

[KevinHann]

I always imagined that would constitute a part of the polishing stage. It just feels much cleaner and professional to provide those options rather than expect all players would be aware they could "just mod it themselves in the game files" or browse for similar mods.

Of course you are right that there should be more important things, please excuse me if I'm getting carried away every now and then. I've been around for a short while so haven't had the time to gradually come to terms with those things like you guys.

[legit1337]

Coding UI is a major pain in the ass. In one of my programming courses we had to code a window with multiple buttons that executed different functions in C++ .

/wrists

[KevinHann]

Very disappointed to hear that Hope your wrists have healed!

[StellarRat]

It depends on what coding language you use and the UI tools it comes with. A good screen designer tool is very helpful. Beyond that there is an art to making them user friendly and functional. Believe it or not there are people that specialize in interface design. I can't imagine anything more boring besides security in the computer field.

Edited May 24, 2014 by StellarRat

[Skitso]

Believe it or not there are people that specialize in interface design.

*rises hand*

[kabill]

Some general, probably not very useful comments on GC:

In short, it's really good. I've not played properly in a while (and still have my testing hat on sometimes. Dash dash dash to the UFO!) but it's a good level of challenge and the missions are consistently engaging. I'm not feeling any of the tedium I recall feeling with the early game in earlier builds, which is excellent.

I'm generally very impressed with the AI. It still suffers from some issues, most notably charging forwards without actually attacking and passively refusing to do anything. However, when it's not suffering from these issues it works very well. Intentional or otherwise, I've seen it do some pretty smart stuff, like an alien spotting for another retreating after it's ally has taken its shots. It also seems to be making better use of cover and LoS blocking than I remember being the case, which makes for more interesting missions.

I've not found myself bothered with any LoS problems in particular either. While I'd like the oddity - if I can call it that - that I've harped on about previously fixed, I've not really felt any impact of it (although I've been playing almost entirely on Desert and Middle East maps which are fairly open).

Balance wise things feel pretty solid, but I think that's been more or less the case for a while now. I'm finding the game more punishing than previously, but I think this is a good thing. Where I was once able to ace missions very consistently, I'm losing at least one soldier per mission during the early game now and often more. Personally, I think that's fine; it wouldn't be an X-Com game if there wasn't a high body count, right?

Not really a lot that's useful in that, I know. In short, I have my fingers crossed for the last few AI related things, but even if they're not fixed I think the ground combat is in a good place.

[AvistTorch]

Believe it or not there are people that specialize in interface design. I can't imagine anything more boring besides security in the computer field.

Currently doing my Master's project in something like this. It's a massive pain in the butt, especially since I'm doing it in HTML.

[Max_Caine]

Regarding that mitigation increase for Heavy Plasmas. Could the Predator go back to having 80, or even 90 armour? 70 sounds awesome, but the Heavy Plasma makes a mockery of a suit of armour self described as being able to walk through lava or withstand a small nuclear explosion. In other words, the Heavy Plasma writes cheques the Predator cannot cash. I've no problem with the sniper being able to pierce Predator armour at will - that's counterbalanced by the relatively small amount of damage it does. But the Heavy plasma has the mitigation and the damage, whereas I feel PCannons should be the foil to Predators.

[Skitso]

Does higher ground provide any bonuses to accuracy or cover?

[kabill]

It used to provide an accuracy bonus, as I remember a bug where accuracy went up above 95%. Don't know if that's still the case, though.

[kabill]

I just killed a zombie with reaction fire, after which the reaper which spawned took a go as well. Two questions:

1) Is that supposed to be happening, or is it a bug?

2) If it is supposed to be happening, should it be from a balance perspective?

[KevinHann]

I think it is, kabill. Has happened to me a number of times and I considered it fair. After all if you kill the zombie in your turn you'll also have a go at the reaper that spawns from it.

Or if it isn't I wouldn't want to see it changed.

[Max_Caine]

If I remember correctly, newly spawned Reapers from a killed zombie should have half AP.

[KevinHann]

Does Reaper attack cost them TU, Max? Is it possible that they could reach you but not have enough TU to convert you?

[kabill]

If I remember correctly, newly spawned Reapers from a killed zombie should have half AP.

Ah, ok. That's cool. I remembered something like that, but I thought it was when you killed them on your turn or something. This makes much more sense. (Also explains why my soldier got a second reaction shot as soon as it started moving.)

@KevinHann: Yes, a Reaper uses 33% of it's TUs to attack, IIRC.

[KevinHann]

@KevinHann: Yes, a Reaper uses 33% of it's TUs to attack, IIRC.

Thanks, haven't ever seen them come near and not attack. Though it's been a while since I last encountered them, have any idea when they appear in Veteran?

[kabill]

Corvettes, apparently. I think it used to be landing ships, but they got moved forwards. Apparently it's a long time since I last saw a Sebillian corvette (usually get Androns).

Different topic: psionics!

The AI's use of psionics seems odd at the moment. There's been several missions where there's been a psionic alien - either a Caesan Psion or Officer - but the use of psionics has been limited or even non-existent. The small few times I've seen a psionic attack, it's occurred only once during the mission, while I'd have thought that they AI would be spamming it every turn to disrupt me. So, again, two questions:

1) Is this intentional behavior?

2) If so, is it good?

(For what it's worth, I'm operating under the assumption that powers require no actual sight on target. Oddly, the few times I've seen Fear used has been when an alien has had LoS on me on its turn, but then I've had a soldier paralysed when there was definitely no LoS.)

[Solver]

A few general observations for this build.

- I would either increase combat shield HP to 100 or give pistols a bit extra range. The shield-carrying soldiers are a tad weak.

- Love the recent increases in alien variety, they all feel different, but out of the two early races, Sebillians seem far stronger. I am relieved when I see a Caesan. Seb regeneration requires me to only engage them with concentrated firepower, not slow shootouts, and they can see through smoke meaning it's difficult to get inside a Sebillian UFO. Caesans just don't do anything special beyond using a psionic power once in a battle (bug?).

- Did perhaps the armour change also weaken vehicles? Seems like the Hunter car is very easily destroyed.

- Real nice HP increase on the light drones. They no longer blow up when someone sneezes.

[kabill]

- Real nice HP increase on the light drones. They no longer blow up when someone sneezes.

Second this. They were a bit like clay pigeons before but they've got a fair amount of resistance now.