Dranak Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Yeah I don't get this either. Condors can handle scouts and light scouts. You don't need fox's till you get to corvettes.Then again after reading in the experimental build that Fox's have been regulated to 2 torps and 2 missles I haven't tried it. The idea of not being able to put 4 torps on a single fox makes them next to worthless in my eyes. They can't dodge so I would never try and use them against a fighter or interceptor. And anything I need to hit with torps shrug off missles. It's 2 hardpoints only, with torps being vastly superior to missiles. In 19.2, Foxtrots are actually great for killing, well, everything including fighters. Simply fire one torpedo, watch the fighter roll, then fire the second as soon as it finishes the roll for a 100% kill rate and 0% damage rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cat Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Well as is in 18.x I can kill a corvette and 2 fighters with a single condor/fox combo. But that relies on dogfighting the second fighter with my condor guns. The 4 torps a fox can carry to down the corvette. Can a corvette be downed with only 2 torps now, and to add to that can a Landing ship be downed with 6 torps? Because I take out landing ships by letting my condor eat his anti missle with it sidewinders and then 2 fox's down it with 8 torps. 6 torps won't do the job. And last but not least I can also down a cruiser with 1 condor and 2 fox's. Is that now possible with 3 foxtrots carrying less torps. Because if I get to the point where I "Have" to make multiple runs on an alien craft before even reaching at least a frikkin battleship it will probably annoy me greatly. I worked hard to figure out how to fight ships in a single sortie. Having to kill that 2 hours rearming and refueling because the economy won't allow for keeping 6+ AC's in a region is a game breaker for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranak Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Well as is in 18.x I can kill a corvette and 2 fighters with a single condor/fox combo. But that relies on dogfighting the second fighter with my condor guns. The 4 torps a fox can carry to down the corvette. Can a corvette be downed with only 2 torps now, and to add to that can a Landing ship be downed with 6 torps?Because I take out landing ships by letting my condor eat his anti missle with it sidewinders and then 2 fox's down it with 8 torps. 6 torps won't do the job. And last but not least I can also down a cruiser with 1 condor and 2 fox's. Is that now possible with 3 foxtrots carrying less torps. Because if I get to the point where I "Have" to make multiple runs on an alien craft before even reaching at least a frikkin battleship it will probably annoy me greatly. I worked hard to figure out how to fight ships in a single sortie. Having to kill that 2 hours rearming and refueling because the economy won't allow for keeping 6+ AC's in a region is a game breaker for me. A landing ship can be downed with four plasma torps, I'm not sure how many alenium ones they would take offhand. I don't remember what it takes to kill a corvette in 19.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 All the UFO health and armour got rebalanced for 19.2. Guns work better against the larger ships, and it was done with MiG's having 2 torps in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 Air Combat discussion to the Geoscape thread please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Caesans need a schtick. All the other cool races get a schtick. Caesans are the guy at the party who ends up in the kitchen scarfing down all the food because that's the only thing who will stick around long enough for him to appreciate. We have psychic powers. Some Caesans get psychic powers. Why not distribute them a little more liberally? They don't need to be the top tier stuff. Utility stuff like locate enemies or low-grade panic stuff like fear for the peons would be more than enough to get the blood boiling and the veins popping. Talking about schticks, with the little numbers now floating above aliens whenever you do them damage, I think it would be a lovely psychological tool if little green numbers floated above Sebillians so you can see how much damage they healed in their turn. As it is, they may regenerate, but we don't know by how much, so we can't gnash our teeth as they heal up the three shotgun blasts the assault guy delivered in the previous turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I'm trying to think if a first time player, unsure of the controls on their first mission would lose 6 troops to a light scout of psychic aliens with panic... probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Having tried out what I think is the panic power and pretty much forcing Caesans to use it (no gun for you, my puppet!), the cause panic power takes a lot of uses to cause, y'know, panic. It drops the morale value by a percentage, but it seems to be a percentage of the current morale total, rather than overall morale value, so the panic power looses potency the lower the morale of the trooper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol' Stinky Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I'm trying to think if a first time player, unsure of the controls on their first mission would lose 6 troops to a light scout of psychic aliens with panic...probably not. It depends on how the alien plasma pistol turns out, really. At the moment, with its range of 10, it's only going to do anything if the player screws up. I don't think throwing a lone psychic in there would be too much for a newbie to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickboom Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Just a little funny fact I hate psi mostly cause today on xcom *old* I just fought about 13 ethereals in a terror mission. Mind control from a crazy distance annoys the hell out of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 27, 2013 Author Share Posted June 27, 2013 Adding more flavour for each of the races is definitely part of the plan - earlier psychics for Caesans will probably happen (not sure about on the light scout, that's perhaps a little harsh...). The psychic stuff needs more attention in general right now. That idea about showing the green healing numbers for Sebillians regenerating is great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cat Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Just a little funny fact I hate psi mostly cause today on xcom *old* I just fought about 13 ethereals in a terror mission. Mind control from a crazy distance annoys the hell out of me. Yeah that was one of my biggest gripes in TFTD. Watching my guys get mind f***ed in my dropships before they even left was very obnoxious. LOS for mind games should be required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 According to the xmls, there are 6 powers. Mind Control is one of them... but you don't see that until almost near the end, and even then it's really, really rare! (And aliens prefer their gunz). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I'm pretty sure there was no LOS requirement for Xenonaut Mind Control. I like that the aliens always have an extra trick. It makes things much more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskiVolkov Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I tried out the experimental version for the first time. Is there going to be anymore balancing done with accuracy? I just landed for my second mission and the moment i stepped out I saw an alien just chillin right outside, standing around in the open (about 10 tiles away in the open). Seeing the perfect opportunity, I lined up seven of my soldiers and had three (1 MG, 2 rifles) fire bursts, and the other four taking aimed shots. Only 2 bullets from the whole volley (~15 bullets or so) and suppressed him. Thats a 13% hit rate for a target in no cover at medium-short range, with soldiers who had time to crouch and aim their shots. If that is indented, then it's fine I guess. I just have to start equipping most of my riflemen with snipers (in order to hit something) and machine guns (for the suppression). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol' Stinky Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 The temporary fix for too-accurate stray shots bug is that they hit the square in front of the alien. Once stray shots work as intended, it won't be as bad because stray shots can still hit a target. At least, that's how I understand it, someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Whatever the case, you're not alone in finding burst fire weapons to be the weaker option right now. Suppression's also dodgy at the moment, so yeah, you've got the right idea: take a ton of snipers. And give them a load of grenades, because you don't want to use a shotgun in close quarters until stray shots are fixed, either. Grenades are pretty damn solid, throwing grenades straight through solid UFO walls aside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Couple of weapon balance ideas: would it be possible to alter shotgun blasts to be a wide angle spread fire where all pellets would be fired simultaneously. This way it could hit multiple targets thus differenting the weapon and making it better without just upping its damage. I think sniper is ATM too good all arounder weapon. It's accuracy should be good when target is far away, but be almost unusable in close quarters. Could it be changed to miss more frequently if target is too close to the sniper? You shouldn't be able to shoot and reload rocket launcher in one turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svidangel Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Unless you mean a "Rookie" shouldn't, you'll end up being wrong at some point unless you want to start with rookies being unable to fire or reload. 120 TUs is a lot without having scaling TU costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Apparently the TU cap is supposed to be 100 TUs, or so Chris said. That being said, I had an idea for making it so that RLs were very time consuming to load, and firing wasn't as time consuming, I don't think. I'll have to search for my solution, I liked it a lot, but I don't remember it. EDIT: It was making reloading cost 30 TUs, Snap Shots 30 TUs, and Aimed Shots 35 TUs. This would allow people to reload and fire in the same turn by spending 60! TUs. If you were ambitious, you could fire, reload, and fire by spending 90! TUs snap shots, or all 100 TUs with aimed shots. I still think that would be fair. Edited June 28, 2013 by GizmoGomez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I just get my troops to aim at the tile behind​ the alien, and they'll hit most of the time that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol' Stinky Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) Couple of weapon balance ideas: would it be possible to alter shotgun blasts to be a wide angle spread fire where all pellets would be fired simultaneously. This way it could hit multiple targets thus differenting the weapon and making it better without just upping its damage. Given the fate of the flamethrower property for weapons, changing the shotty to have an explosive radius is probably the closest safe way to get something like that going. If you're not playing a mod, try opening your weapons_gc.xml in Xenonauts\assets and paste this over the current shotgun code: <Weapon name="weapon.shotgun" bulletType="rocket" emptySound="Empty Click 1"> <props range="8" hands="2" recoil="0" weight="3" isHeavy="0" clipSize="8" reloadAPCost="30" reloadSound="Weapon Shotgun Reload" reactionModifier="2" hpLimit="80"/> <SingleShot sound="Weapon Shotgun Single" delay="0.6" suppressionValue="15" suppressionRadius="3"> <Set1 ap="20" accuracy="90" /> <Set2 ap="30" accuracy="120" /> </SingleShot> <BurstFire/> <GUIImage name="gui/weapons/Shotgun.png"/> <GroundImage name="grounditemimages/shotgun.png"/> <Ammos> <Ammo name="ammo.ballistic.shotgun" type="kinetic" damage="45" mitigation="0"> <Projectile spectre="projectiles/bullet/bullet" speed="99999"/> <Impact spectre="particles/bulletplume/bulletplume" radius="2"/> </Ammo> </Ammos></Weapon> Given the way that splash damage is weaker than direct damage, and on top of that, cover also lowers splash damage, I don't think it's impossible to balance. Play around with the radius, range and damage until you find the sweet spot you're looking for. With the range lower than 10, you can afford to up the damage to make it a close-range murder machine while only tickling enemies at mid range. Edit: oh, yeah, back up your current weapons_gc.xml. Edited June 29, 2013 by Ol' Stinky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 The flamethrower functionality is there... but, uh, it's not fully implemented. It's... interesting.... if you change the bullettype to flamethrower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawCode Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 accuracy shoud be fixed, pointblank shotgun just cant miss, but currently it have 56% hit ration and can miss a lot, it much more effective to spam grenades or snipe from outside when someone opened door from safe angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Ever fired a shotgun, RawCode? I used to have a double-barrel shotgun and I assure you, you can miss at point-blank range with one. They aren't blunderbusses which spew everything everywhere. You actually have to point the gun at the target, and if it's trying to get out of the way it might be hit by insufficent pellets to hurt it. Just try shooting at rabbits or another fast-moving object! That being said, perhaps the bonus for firing at short range could be upped significantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svidangel Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Not to mention it looks like the shotguns are being used to fire slugs, not buckshot. I'm not sure buckshot from most shotguns would do much to the aliens, and the fact that all the upgraded "shotguns" are actually Carbines supports the slug theory. That means it's just as easy to miss with the shotgun as with any other single bullet weapon. Main advantage to all the carbines is maneuvering the weapon around in close quarters, not firing cones of useless pellets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.