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odizzido

Struggling to find a use for the light machine gun?

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So I have only played three tactical missions but I have already dropped the light machine gun and I have no plans to ever look at it again. I find it has very limited use for my play style....am I missing anything?

 

The issue I have with it is if I set someone up to provide cover I don't move them often. That means with either the rifle or the machine gun I can get off five shots. They do the same damage with the same accuracy and same range. The higher capacity of the LMG doesn't seem to matter in actual gameplay?

The rifle offers aimed shots which are almost always better in terms of DPS.

 

I understand that theoretically if you were to assault a position you could move up and also get off five shots with the LMG and it could have the edge over the rifle in that way.....but is that something people use? The shotgun seems a better option to me in situations where that I could, in theory, use the LMG to greater effect compared to the rifle?

 

So do people use the LMG? Am I just not playing in a way that makes it useful?

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LMG are very strong at close range (run directly to the enemy to hit it with all 5 shots) and still somewhat usefull at midle range where shotgun doesnt work at all

Edited by Rusknight
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Okay, well as long as some people find it useful that's all that is needed. It doesn't need to be useful for everyone.

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You will get in a Situation once or later where you need such a guy or 2 of them. At the Beginning (1st Month to mid 2nd Month) I don´t use them very often, but I and many others get then in Situations where you need such MG-Guys (Men / Women).

In the first 1,5 Months 2 Shotguners, 2 Riflers, 2 Shield-Soldiers, 1 or 2 Grenadiers and 1 or 2 Snipers are enough. After that you need the MG-Guys (when the Robots and Sebillians and much higher Aliens are comming). In that Time you should have the Accelerated Guns for your Soldiers and the X-25-Interceptors.

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my team setup that I dont change as it works fine for me till the end game:
1x mars with rockets as recon and artillery
1x shield guy with pistol and stun weapon
2x lmg guys
2x snipers
2x infantry

Edited by Rusknight

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We can only test 25 to 50 % of the Game. We haven’t met the real challenges yet, where such soldiers get needed.

To make us Tests easier we get the light and normal Threat as Enemies yet. The real one we will see later after the implementations which get needed for the first 50 % of the Game runs stable.

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1 hour ago, Alienkiller said:

We can only test 25 to 50 % of the Game. We haven’t met the real challenges yet, where such soldiers get needed.

To make us Tests easier we get the light and normal Threat as Enemies yet. The real one we will see later after the implementations which get needed for the first 50 % of the Game runs stable.

Well in v12 or so in the second month I had a battle where 10 adrons attacked my dropship at once (it was a balancing bug obviously) 
I had to change my squad composition to 10x lmg guys to win that battle
I doubt final game will be that tough and except this case my squad composition worked really well for me

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The funny thing is that if the LMG-Carriers (Men / Women) within a PSI-Control can´t make to much damage to your own guys, than one with a Sniper-Rifle, Pistol, Rifle or Shotgun. Had this yesterday and was happy that I had 2 of that Guys with me.

The other thing is, that LMG´s have many advantages, esp. for Battles with many Aliens or like you announced hard Enemys:

1a: The Enemys get Shocked faster with to many Bullets in the near (they have only 50 % Moving the next Round). Means either a Shot and hope for a lucky hit or run away.

1b: Means that you save Shock-Grenades, which you need later in Rooms or UFO- / Base-Floors.

2: Harder enemys can be killed faster, because more Bullets or Engery is hitting (like the Androns we know atm). But I know that they are the lightest of the Hard enemys from many other Games (like X-COM or UFO ET).

3: The LMG is a medium to short range Weapon and can be used for Attack as well as Defense Roles with the Advantage of many Bullets / Energy Shots.

4: The Damage of the Soldier with in Alien-PSI-Control can be drastically reduced if you move him / her away from the others. If you get lucky he / she panics or get stunned. The best result is that he / she resist that attacks.

5: Yes, it is an support Weapon and you have to use it wisely about the 50 % Movement. The Advantage gives it right to have them with you.

The Weapon has Disadvantages too, that´s right:

1: The Weapon is Heavy and can be used only if you have not used more than 50 % of the Movement.

2: It can only be used from Soldiers with good weight Ballance.

Edited by Alienkiller

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Like I said I make a mix from my Soldiers. At Start they are / get Equiped:

2x Infantry (Cevlar-Armor, Grenades, Rifle, Medi-Kit with Upgrades earlyer or later = Stun ect.) = Medium Range Fighters / Short Range Fighters

2x Shotgunners (Cevlar-Armor, Rebreather, Grenades, Shotgun, Medikit with Upgrades erlyer or later = Stun etc.) = Short Range Fighters / very good in Buildings, UFOs, Bases and other similar Things

2x Shield (Shield, Rebreather, Cevlar-Vest / upgraded Cevlar-Vest, Pistol, Grenades, Medikit with Upgrades earlyer or later = Stun, upgraded Pistol etc.) = Short Range Fighters and good blockers with the Shield for unprotectet Civilians / Soldiers or directly for the short range Fighters too [mostly changed from the 2 Standard-Riflemen]

2x LMG (Cevlar-Armor / Cevlar-Vest / upgraded Cevlar-Vest, LMG, Knife, Grenades and evtl. an Medikit with Upgrades earlyer or later = Stun, upgraded Knife etc.) = Medium Range Fighters mostly for giving fast fire Protection for the Comrades and very good in destroying Armored-Targets with the fast fire-Rotation

1x Sniper, later 2 Snipers (Cevlar-Vest / upgraded Cevlar-Vest, Sniper-Rifle, Pistol, Grenades, Medikit with Upgrades earlyer or later = Stun, upgraded Pistol etc.) = Long Range Fighters with the Duty of a Sniper with long Range Protection for the Comrades and killing Aliens

1x Roketeers, later 2 Roketeers (Cevlar-Vest / upgraded Cevlar-Vest, Grenade-Launcher, Knife, Ammonition for the Launcher, Grenades and evtl. and Medikit with Upgrades earlyer or later = Stun-Ammo, upgraded Knife etc.)

2x MARS-Vehicles (Steel Armor, Rocket-Launcher, SMG or Range-Finder for Vehicle 1 [as long Range Support and Recon] / Heavy Steel Armor, Cannon, Smoke Launcher for Vehicle 2 [as medium and short Range Support]) = Support Vehicles for your Soldiers

In planing: 2 to 4 Breachers (Cevlar-Vest / upgraded Cevlar-Vest, C4, Rifle or Pistol, Grenades) and other Types of Infantry to the above announced Standard-Variants as Specialists!

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1 hour ago, Komandos said:

I increase the length of the queue from a light machine gun to 9-12 rounds.

No, it will be a bust. But they can reduce the time spent on the snap shot: make 50% instead of 55%. It is also worth adding another sighting mode: 70-80% accuracy at a price of 95% TU

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@Alienkiller

Everyone creates the build he likes.
By the way, what benefits does C4 bring to you?

I have never used them and I still do not see the need to use them.

I have never used shields, but recently noticed that thermal pistols are too effective compared to kinetic, so they can be used after researching thermal pistols.

Edited by MrAlex

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4 minutes ago, MrAlex said:

No, it will be a bust. But they can reduce the time spent on the snap shot: make 50% instead of 55%. It is also worth adding another sighting mode: 70-80% accuracy at a price of 95% TU

Why the failure? The bad thing is that you can fire more bullets from a pistol with a few clicks on the trigger than you can do in a single burst from a machine gun. The machine gun must fire more bullets per turn than all other weapons.

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2 minutes ago, Komandos said:

Why the failure? The bad thing is that you can fire more bullets from a pistol with a few clicks on the trigger than you can do in a single burst from a machine gun. The machine gun must fire more bullets per turn than all other weapons.

The pistol can fire 5 shots provided the soldier is not moving. The rifle can fire 6 times (2 times by three shots). That's why I proposed to reduce the cost of TU for the machine gun to 50%. Although, it would probably be more correct to add a firing mode with more shots and a higher TU cost.

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5 hours ago, MrAlex said:

Although, it would probably be more correct to add a firing mode with more shots and a higher TU cost.

A machine gun is most often a stationary position from which the enemy pours intense fire. Shooting while moving and changing positions is rather a forced measure. 

Therefore, yes-the mode of conducting machine gun fire for all 100% of the action points should be.

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Nope, fully Disaggree. The History shows (see Full Metall Jacket and similar Movies) that light portabel Maschineguns are nice to have. The Moving and shooting is to handle like by all other Weapons. Either all have the same Move / Fire-Options or nobody.

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The advantage of machine guns is the high density of fire (the number of bullets per turn) and the power of the cartridge. This should be implemented in the game. Now the density of machine-gun fire is even less than that of some less rapid-fire guns.

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LMGs often share the same cartridge as standard rifles. Not always, but often. The DPS issue is why I don't use them though. Standard rifles can do more damage when covering a position and shotguns do more damage when getting in close.

There are a couple advantages I can potentially see with LMGs one being that they can do the highest close range damage PER ACTION....meaning aliens can't survive the first action and then use a reaction shot as easily as they could with other weapons. The second is that if you move and shoot you can get five shots off with an LMG compared to only three with a rifle. These don't seem to be enough for me to actually use them though, but that might be just my play style.

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11 hours ago, odizzido said:

but that might be just my play style.

Me too.
For me, a machine gun is not effective compared to a rifle in combat at a distance, and it does not have enough TU to get closer than a shotgun. Although a laser machine gun is probably very effective against a group of nearby enemies. But in such cases, I prefer grenades and missiles.

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7 hours ago, MrAlex said:

Me too.
For me, a machine gun is not effective compared to a rifle in combat at a distance, and it does not have enough TU to get closer than a shotgun. Although a laser machine gun is probably very effective against a group of nearby enemies. But in such cases, I prefer grenades and missiles.

I used to dislike machineguns since they used a lot of tu and were somewhat inaccurate, but now I really like them. I swear the hit percentage is higher than what is shown to the player, I often hit enemies several times with the machine gun than I miss completely when the hit rate is at 10% which both cases should happen about equally if hit rate is correct. Even when I do miss completely I often suppress the enemy making it easier to go in and eliminate the enemy safely. 

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The LMG has gone through several iterations as the game has progressed. I have seen versions when the LMG was the only pick worth taking (that was an interesting time). It's my understanding that the intended LMG in-game use has always been to inflict the suppressed condition on a target. That is to say, the purpose of LMG is as a ranged debuffer, with damage caused as a secondary function. If the suppression damage on the LMG was cranked up so it auto suppressed a target on the first burst, would that be enough of a reason to keep it around? 

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I am not sure. I might use it then, but I would have to try it and see. It kinda wouldn't make sense though because they fire the same rounds but the rifle gets off more of them than the LMG which means the regular rifle should actually suppress better.

I am not sure there is a problem to solve though because some people really like the LMG.

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11 hours ago, odizzido said:

rifle should actually suppress better.

I think so it is. Looking at my experience, it doesn't matter what weapon the shot was fired from. It often happened that I suppressed the aliens with sniper rifle shots.

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Nice discussion, every Player is different. The one sees one direction, the second an other direction. It´s ok, but it´s the mix a Troop makes strong.

I use everytime a mixed Troop to be prepared for every eventuallys. If someone will do the Missions only with Shotguns, Rifles, Pistols, Knives and an Grenade-Launcher, then he / she can do it.

Sometimes the normal Shotguns, Rifles, Pistols, Knives and an Grenade-Launcher-Solution works for the first Aliens you meet atm. But we don´t know what the Devs have done in Ballancing, Armor etc. from the Enemys. What we know is the Effect from Alien Weapons to our exisiting Cevlar-Armors, Cevlar-Vests and unprotecable Standard-Clothes.

The interessting Thing are the big enemys, where you need real Firepower with an Rocket-Launcher (Vehicle) / Canon (Vehicle), Grenade-Launcer (Soldier) and LMG´s (Soldier). The Grenade-Launchers have 3 Shoots per Clip, Standard-Grenades are only Single, Rockets have Maximum 6 or 8 Shots per Payload.

The interessting Question is what do you if all of that is empty (Grenade-Launcher, Vehicle-Rockets, Explosive Grenades)? That´s the Question, which isn´t easy to answer with an light Equiped Troop. If you don´t have C4 left, it will be realy hard then.

There you wish an LMG-Soldier to help the Troop out of Danger. But yeah, the RPM per Shot of an Human LMG is low. The Aliens can Fire more RPM with her LMG-Variants (Ballistics, Plasma and whatever). 5 Shots from you to 8 from the Aliens is not Fair.

 

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