Gorlom Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 A different channel / inner circle / whathaveyou gives the impression of entitlement.Having lots of pocket change is no guarantee of producing useful ideas and I can tell you from personal experience that Chris has no problem with ignoring even Most Awesome Ideas™ so I don't know how well this would work. =P I agree. After reading around a bit there seems to be some concern on different sites that donors will feel "entitled" and exhibit Mass Effect 3 rage if they dont get what they want.That kind of model might work on a game in the concept stage, but most likely won't work on a game that has gone as far as Xenonauts has and where the developer has a clear vision of what he wants to do. I don't even see the point in the time-limited exclusivity.It's not like I get anything from someone else not getting something. What's the point? Tbh I have no idea. I'm guessing shadowruns idea was to give backers something special, but like you and tothkins say it just doesn't feel right to keep content from other consumers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstormer Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Actually, have oyu considered giving donations the chance to be the manufacturer of the weapons. "The Hellstormer close assualt shotgun" has a nice ring to it for example... I have to admit that does have a nice ring to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Why would you want the PDF artbook if you have a printed copy as well? I'm sure it can be arranged but it just seems a bit redundant. I don't think having a "Premium" mod would be a good way of delivering premium content even if we wanted to do it, either. It kinda would seem quite bolted-on then. But we don't want to do it anyway, I don't really agree with the principle of it. And yeah, there's always a danger that if we give higher-tier donators a direct line to me Gazz could buy it and I'd drown in a sea of text (although I think several of your ideas have already made it into the game) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 "The Hellstormer close assualt shotgun" has a nice ring to it for example... Unfortunately that cuts both ways - to pick an example from Page 1 of this thread, you could get a "Strange Guy Close Assault Shotgun" which sounds more likely to end in a restraining order than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 it's possibly the same with soldier names, especially starting soldier names. You want your troops to have names that have plausible cold war type names. Seeing a donator name might spoil that. I can,t really see Farquar Milketoast out saving the planet. Apologies to all forum members who have real names of Farquar Milquetoast naturally. Sgt Thothkins on the other hand...yeah, that too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I'm assumeing that Chris will reserve the right to refuse any name that isn't the given name, like internet handles? (refusal if the name doesnt fit could be applied to the hypothetical weapons manufactor reward too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 you'd hope so, but then you have an issue that the donation has been made, but aspects of it won't be implemented, which won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 you'd hope so, but then you have an issue that the donation has been made, but aspects of it won't be implemented, which won't work. Darnit I forgot to type out the standard "donor may continue to send in names untill one is accepted" didnt I? At least that's how every other kickstarter has solved that particular issue. (there must be some way to confirm that the name provided is the real name. scan a photo id perhaps?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstormer Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Unfortunately that cuts both ways - to pick an example from Page 1 of this thread, you could get a "Strange Guy Close Assault Shotgun" which sounds more likely to end in a restraining order than anything else. Well... feel free to use Hellstormer for anything you'd like then Though I agree it could get a bit odd. I mean what if someone's forum handle was "Brony?" Then we'd have like Brony armor haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 ok but which one was it? =S Neither. As I said it was a comment on how content could be delivered, not a suggestion to do so, or how to offer it. But since you asked, my personal preference is for content that everyone would get, even if it was as mods after release. Probably best used when the target is reached and you want an incentive for people to keep giving. "Additional funding over this point will let us work on a second version of each armour set in a different colour" rather than "Anyone giving us $1000 will get their own special dropship" for example. I only mention that example because I am quite partial to having a 'Red Shirt' version of the armour types to stick my rookies in. Lets you (and the aliens) spot them a mile away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Sgt thothkins: Right, Rookie Bob. You get to wear the new red shirt armour that the lab have come up with. Rookie Bob: I'm not putting that on. Sgt thothkins: Look, just put it on. It's armour. Youre going to need it. Rookie Bob: Don't care. I'd rather go out buck naked than put red shirt armour on. Sgt thothkins: Bob, the rest of us can't leave the ship until you get that on and go out first. Rookie Bob: That's another thing. Why do I have to go out first while you all stay in here and play poker? Sgt thothkins: Because you're a Rookie, Bob. It's tradition. You know that. Inspiring Roookies always get to take point. Rookie Bob: And the neon sign.....? XNauts lose the mission due to continued squabbling in the chinook... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szabtom Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Why would you want the PDF artbook if you have a printed copy as well? I'm sure it can be arranged but it just seems a bit redundant. People who appreciate the luxury of a hardcopy book, and are willing to donate extra for it, are at the same time users of tablets, e-readers, laptops, etc. It is normal and expected today that electronic versions are provided along with the higher priced hardcopy. If you don't believe me, you will see the questions on the Kickstarter page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstormer Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I personally would always rather have a REAL book - I stare at screens enough over the course of the day to want to stare at another one to read in my free time. Gimme dat real book of paper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I like having both. It means I don't have to cart a ton of books around every time I fancy a game of Call of Cthulhu, but can enjoy reading the books at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostwell Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I personally would also prefer both PDF and physical copy. If I am traveling and want to look at the book, I can pull up the PDF on my tablet, whereas I would probably never bring the book with my on a trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 Fair enough. Providing a PDF copy with the physical copy wouldn't be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilrathi Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 On a Kickstarter related issue, Chris, have you given thought to what you'll say about why the Kickstarter funding is needed and what additional funding will mean to the game's progress? I think people like hearing that, especially for a game like Xenonauts which is already coming along nicely. Another thing to consider is additional goals/levels - the "stretch goal" concept you see in a lot of successful Kickstarters where the designer is able to say "well, if we raise an extra $50k, you'll each get a new wallpaper" or "the game will then have [extra missions/a full orchestra doing sound/Vikings invading Seattle]". I'm not sure how well the stretch goal concept works for the Xenonauts project but just something to think about since it seems like a helpful carrot to dangle and give people reason to up their pledge to help make it to that next goal (and then you come up with another stretch goal and people push for that one afterwards, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The New Romance Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 It worked very well for Order of the Stick and Banner Saga, for example. I think the funding thermometer that was discussed a month or two ago should definitely be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 +1 with the above. A guide to where the cash will be spent gives a lot of confidence that it will be used for a purpose and not for the extra lapdances that you can now afford. Clever developers should ensure their game has a lapdancing themed level, putting down such expenditures as 'research' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilrathi Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Following up on TNR's comment above, I totally agree - graphics and thermometers and charts with goals seem to go over really well, as do frequent and informative updates. It does seem like it's a lot of work but if you can get people used to actually checking the Kickstarter page and commenting on what's going on, the drive seems to gather a lot more momentum. Just asking for cash in a vacuum may or may not work, but building momentum - coupled with accountability for where the money is going and a sense of a new achievement - really seems to work. I'm always amazed/surprised by how many people seem willing to up their pledge when there's a new goal in sight... (says the guy who just signed on to the Shadow Days Kickstarter and now really hopes it hits $19,000 so I get a poster - no idea where I'm going to put signed OoTS books, random card game posters and 14 lb. boxes of Ogre in a small NYC apartment but we'll figure that out when it shows up, I guess!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 I think I'm going to play that one by ear when it starts. I have one stretch goal in mind but that's if the KS goes really, really well so I'm not going to discuss that now. For the rest of the stuff, I'm loathe to promise anything up front because telling everyone we'll implement X or Y feature because it might turn out to be a bad idea in practice and I'll feel bad about cutting it as a result. Part of the reason I think Xenonauts has been successful is because I'm so anal about controlling everything on the project. While I imagine this is quite annoying for the rest of the team, I think it's made the game quite cohesive in style so far and I'm sort of reluctant to do anything that might risk losing that. However, the community feedback on the KS stuff has been immensely helpful (far more than I was expecting it to be), and as a result I'll run my thoughts past people before I do anything stretch-related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Whatever you do don't make it look like random money collection, you need to some kind of "proof of purpose" so to speak, a direction. It's a bit ironic actually. KS is little more than an over glorified pre-order system but people have quite a different attitude when it comes to KS. Whereas one might be content to just pre-order a game because he/she likes it, and not pose further demands/questions, one making a KS pledge feels more like an investor and expects to see a "future plan" of some sort. Not that players don't have expectations of developers in general but it's more pronounced with KS I think. People aren't merely buying a game, they are paying you to make one for them so to speak. There's a subtle difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecaptain Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Will there be kickstarter options for people who have already purchased the game? I got a premium preorder ages ago, and would still like to support development, but don't need a second copy. I've seen a few kickstarters with tip jars and the like. (It looks like there was a $5 option removed?) Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Give the extra copy to a friend for their birthday. Or to a random stranger in the street because they are wearing a funny hat. Both ways help the project anyway because that person may mention their new game to others who will buy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Pancakes Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Ditto to thecaptain's question. Also, would the rewards for the $30 option be granted for free to those who've ordered the premium version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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