StellarRat Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Last night they were actually coming after me from all directions! It was awesome. I was really sweating the base attack mission. Good work and two thumbs up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Not sure how new the AI really is, but I have to agree here, being surrounded by 15 bastards is what makes the ground combat great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 Trust me, I've been with the game for a couple years now. The AI is vastly better than it was. At one time it wouldn't even move the aliens. Just sat there and shot at whatever happened to wander by, like a Venus Fly Trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Yes, when I'm stalking an alien from a downed corvette, I hurry the fuck up because I know its buddies will be closing in. First time I ever had to put out rear and flank defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemm Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I think the aliens could be a lot sneakier and attempt to hide behind corners more often instead of just hiding behind cover props like they seem to do most of the time. They also need to send scouts and flankers around the outer edges of the map to try and come up behind the Xenonaut force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 The improved AI in the last few builds mainly comes from a fix Giovanni made that forces the AI to load appropriate script types (aggressive, defensive, passive etc...) for the mission. Previously in a base attack mission the various AI units were still setup as if they were a UFO crew, so about half of them were defensive/passive and hence would just hide or lurk about. We have bigger AI improvements coming up soon, which should improve things even further. Out of curiosity, are many people encountering Reapers? If so, how are you finding their behaviour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcomnaut Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Out of curiosity, are many people encountering Reapers? If so, how are you finding their behaviour? I'm in the middle of march. Didnt see any reaper yet. Is this some bug? v19.6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Aliens would previously also spend more time trapped in walls, reducing their combat abilities somewhat. This has also been fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) If it gets much tougher, we'll have to talk about GC balance some more. I've gone from taking just about zero casualties per mission to between 1 and 4 per mission that's on "Normal". I think a beginner might get their ass kicked many times before they caught on now. Please don't dumb down the AI though. The problems can easily be solved by reducing the alien numbers or alien stat changes (accuracy, etc..) That being said, if the aliens are getting too many TUs and the sight ranges were wrong (as Aaron said) the balance might be OK once these are fixed. Edited August 8, 2013 by StellarRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 Can someone please take a look at TU consumption by the aliens? I still think they are "cheating" and getting too many TUs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) Trust me, I've been with the game for a couple years now. The AI is vastly better than it was. At one time it wouldn't even move the aliens. Just sat there and shot at whatever happened to wander by, like a Venus Fly Trap. What I meant was that, I got surrounded in 18.5, meaning its not a 19.6 thing. Im sure the game has come a long way since it started. Insane 19.6 without the hotfixes(I deal with escorts and I can live without xenopedia for a while). Jan 20th not a single chryssalid yet. (Fought them in 18 stable and they were comical, 3 are supposed to swarm me? They also got supressed too easily.) Average loss ratio is one soldier per mission, mostly because of "Wraiths teleporting behind me and shooting in a sigle turn" or "Sebillians breaking cover by a blaster, then harridan sniping my ass." Edit: Just had 2 reapers in a sebillian base. They ran in and died to reaction fire... doesnt help me much in judging their behaviour. At least I can confirm you can encounter them in January. Edited August 8, 2013 by ViniJones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcomnaut Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I'm in the middle of march. Didnt see any reaper yet. Is this some bug? v19.6 Can anyone answer my question please? Is this normal in v19.6 I didnt encounter reapers for that long ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 That probably means I need to make Reapers spawn in more mission types, as they should be a big part of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Can anyone answer my question please? Is this normal in v19.6 I didnt encounter reapers for that long ? I wouldnt say it should be normal, but I only fought 4 total and its February. And thats 4 total in 2 sebillian bases. That probably means I need to make Reapers spawn in more mission types, as they should be a big part of the game. Most definitely, I would also suggest putting more than 2 in a mission... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Reapers are supposed to be freaking scary. Up their TUs so they can move more, but increase their attack TU cost as well so they can't attack as much if you'd like. I'm thinking they are kinda like hunters from L4D. Running fast, slashing and zombifying people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Reapers are supposed to be freaking scary. Up their TUs so they can move more, but increase their attack TU cost as well so they can't attack as much if you'd like. I'm thinking they are kinda like hunters from L4D. Running fast, slashing and zombifying people. Umm...have you played a base assault lately?? With more aggressive AI they're already "freaking scary" even without Reapers! I'm already concerned about the difficulty for a beginner on "Normal". Lost half my guys on the last one and used every grenade and rocket I was carrying. I'm really worried about what's going to happen when the aliens start tossing grenades. Edited August 9, 2013 by StellarRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol' Stinky Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Umm...have you played a base assault lately?? With more aggressive AI they're already "freaking scary" even without Reapers! I'm already concerned about the difficulty for a beginner on "Normal". Lost half my guys on the last one and used every grenade and rocket I was carrying. I'm really worried about what's going to happen when the aliens start tossing grenades. Yeah, the AI improvements could be a game changer and reapers shouldn't get buffs without testing them now that the aggressive script seems to be, well, aggressive. I actually lost a newbie to a caesan who charged around the corner with no sense of self-preservation, something that would never happen before, since both passive and aggressive aliens spent all their time hugging rocks. If that had been a reaper, well, things would have been a lot worse... I'll probably add more reapers in to try and see how they are. In the .xml files it t looks like they only really show up in medium/large alien bases and terror missions, I'll include them in corvette+ scouting/research/ground attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mytheos Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Reapers are melee and they should be built as such. Which means a lot of TUs to compensate as well as super high bravery...really you should kill a Reaper before you ever manage to suppress it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Reapers are melee and they should be built as such.Which means a lot of TUs to compensate as well as super high bravery...really you should kill a Reaper before you ever manage to suppress it. An excellent point, someone here also mentioned increasing their attack TU costs, so they run fast, but dont kill 3 people in one turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol' Stinky Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 They already get 80/100 TUs, with a 20 TU attack that's a guaranteed one hit kill. I'd rather have more of them per mission than making them faster, and that's if they even need any buffs once their AI's in better shape (or if their AI is in better shape, I've not encountered many in my 19.6 playthrough so far). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mytheos Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Well once you start seeing them you'll have to be more careful I suppose. Really as long as you have a decent formation (Preventing shooting yourself) you can take one down with reaction shots. Granted if one runs around a corner you're 1 tile away from you might loose a guy. (Should have looked around the corner before bunching your guys up) But lets be honest here, they have no ranged, and can be suppressed with a single Flashbang or by shooting with 1 soldier if it has decent TUs (Which it will by the time you see them), so as soon as you see one, they are basically dead. Originally they had a bunch of TUs and a 1 shot melee kill, and could take quite a bit of damage. They were rather scary in urban environments. I havent seen one yet this round, but last I did, it ran behind a box, and sat down and cried while I leisurely took pot shots at it and killed it, I'm less scared of them than a Seb NonCom...which is sad...considering with 20 reflexes you can take your whole squad and dance around one while unsuppressed holding hands in a circle for 30mins before they raise their gun to take a reaction shot. Their stats seem ok, they just need bravery changed from 100 to 200+ and AI that make them do what they are supposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 So, on that base attack mission I was REALLY wishing we had a area denial weapons like the old proximity grenades in the OG. I think we're really going to need something like that to survive once the AI is fully turned up even on normal. I don't feel like I have enough guys to adequately protect the flanks and rear in a base assault specially against Reapers or Androns. In the OG I would have used proximity grenades to accomplish this. Something that could work is an incendiary grenade that produces a fire in every tile. You could at least force them to walk through an inferno to get to your guys then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Gas grenades would work well as area denial, at least against aliens which aren't immune. It's the main reason I'd like to see tox-grenades or whatever they were back in. I guess you could use C4, as well, but you'd need to guess good with the timing. (Or, shoot it when the aliens are in range?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol' Stinky Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 It'd probably help with balancing if stun gas grenades/rockets were moved to a later tech, and instead we got tox grenades/rockets from Alien Biology. You'd have to use the baton for a while that way. A tox or incendiary grenade would also fill a hole in the close quarter combat arsenal. In long range combat, there's the option of using sniper rifles for a slower way of digging out an entenched enemy, or you can use the overdamaging rocket launcher. Frag+ grenades are overdamage, kinda making them the close-up equivalent of the rocket launcher. What's the slower but "proper" way to deal with an alien squatting behind a bunch of base control panels? Currently it's stun or shock grenades, but we all know that's not going to last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventuswings Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Bit late to the party, but I agree with the sentiment that should Reaper be adjusted, at first only bravery stat should be adjusted to make suppression truly difficult. Being suppressed seem to make Reapers frequently useless, but that doesn't mean they should have enough TU to make being suppressed redundant. Also concur Stun grenades & rockets should be pushed further back. However their suppressions value be adjusted, barring drastic changes latter two will always be more tactically useful than Stun baton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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