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Milestone 5 - Official Feedback / Game Balance Thread


Chris

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This thread is intended for players to post their thoughts and experiences with Milestone 5. It'd be great to hear what people think of the new mechanics and the current state of the game - what they find fun, and what you'd still like to see improved.

Similarly, we'd like to hear thoughts about the game balance - if there's any parts of the game or specific enemies or items that feel overpowered or underpowered, post them up for discussion here.

In order to keep the thread on-topic, please try not to make general gameplay suggestions for entirely new features here (suggesting amendments for things already in the game is fine).

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Can you make an in-game xenopedia entry about the health of elite/preatorian tier units? the standard tiers already have xenopedia entries, but when playing with hidden health against higher tiers you kinda end up having no idea about their health/armor values without directly looking in the game files.

Edited by Grobobobo
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  • Ballistic sniper feels unsatisfying to use after the global damage randomizer nerf and needs a slight damage buff. 
  • I would move the first abduction mission further down the line to maybe day 50 or so. Let the players wait for the first contact and give cleaners more time and missions. Makes more sense when we are literally in a shadow war. I would even go further and suggest replacing most aliens with cleaners from all UFO crash sites until cleaners are dealt with.
  • Reduce or remove alloy rewards from abduction tubes. I'd like to starve from exotic materials in early game. Make them feel really special.
  • I don't like the board gamey "Alien victory if 2 regions lost" rule in the funding report. If you want to force player into submission faster, add a panic damage multiplier to the remaining regions. If 2 regions are lost, all panic damage is multiplied by 2 for example. This kind of more organic approach fits better in a "simulation" style game like X2.
  • UFOs need to land more.
  • I agree with Grobobobo that difference between light and heavy armor needs balancing, but I'd add more weight/accuracy penalty to the heavy instead of buffing the light armor. Same with MARS heavy armor. Currently it's a no brainer to use as the negatives are so small.
Edited by Skitso
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  • Does tactical module give the player any meaningful tactical choices (build variation wise)? I would love to get the armor plate module back to give more possibilities and build variations. The current armor system is fine as it is now, but just bring the armor plate module back to give +x armor. Then I could choose between additional accuracy, additional armor or more inventory space and strong units could take both. At least at the beginning of the game, there's so much inventory space that I can put the tactical module into pretty much everyone's inventory.
  • I still feel like the accelerated weapons become obsolete too quickly. I mean they are so easy to skip it's not even an option for me.
  • AI feels too aggressive which makes many of the missions very front loaded.
  • Gas masks are still not useful enough to consider. Fill crashed UFOs with smoke (and fire) and I would definitely start using them.
  • Demolition charge feels OP. For such a large explosive, you shouldn't be able to throw it so far.
  • Grenade launcher is pretty much spot on now. Really fun and satisfying weapon to use.
Edited by Skitso
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It's way too easy to gather intel on this map. Map is too small/compact and there's too many computer desks close to the entrance. As you can see from the image, I had 18 computers hacked before any reinforcements. This means reinforcements should have arrived at least 2 turns earlier. Should I have settled for the 10 hacks, I'd been long gone before reinforcements arrive. But on some other intel gather maps it a different story, so tweaking turn limits is not a remedy for this.

image.thumb.png.e73b71e82e2f796b9c204858c7142cd0.png

Edited by Skitso
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One thing I would like changed is to see the role icons instead of the soldiers' weapons on top of the screen in ground combat.

Mostly because I believe it makes it easier to select different specialists who carry the same type of weapon (mainly rifles).

Edited by Herr Kodax
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It seems like the Tutorial results in lower Operations points total during the intro part of the game due to the number of days before things really kick off. It seems harsh to "punish" new players with reduced resources when they start the game with advice.

Smoke grenades put out fires, not sure if intended.

The game does not allow you to take 0% gunshots, but does allow 0% grenade throws sometimes?

Knife weighing 8 seems high

 

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On 12/21/2024 at 5:55 AM, Skitso said:

Ballistic sniper feels unsatisfying to use after the global damage randomizer nerf and needs a slight damage buff. 

Agreed, I regularly hit standard cleaners only to have them get 1 more turn of shooting at me before they die to their wounds (35damage+5bleed). And while the range is different, I can hit for more with the basic starter pistol (40 damage on a mantid just now).

On 12/21/2024 at 7:26 AM, Skitso said:

Gas masks are still not useful enough to consider. Fill crashed UFOs with smoke (and fire) and I would definitely start using them.

I think the poison gas may change that if the poison actually stays in the squares where your units are hit. For now it has been safest to just sit in place after a poison grenade. And or spread out of course. But 10 damage a step is rough once you have to move, even for a single unit.

On 12/21/2024 at 7:26 AM, Skitso said:

I still feel like the accelerated weapons become obsolete too quickly. I mean they are so easy to skip it's not even an option for me.

Yeah, it would be nice if this and laser weapons showed some increase benefits. Longer range before dropoff, etc. Laser weapons I think specifically mention being easier to aim, yet they aren't (by the numbers). Recoil also wouldn't be a thing that exists for a laser machinegun.

 

On 12/21/2024 at 5:55 AM, Skitso said:

I would move the first abduction mission further down the line to maybe day 50 or so. Let the players wait for the first contact and give cleaners more time and missions. Makes more sense when we are literally in a shadow war. I would even go further and suggest replacing most aliens with cleaners from all UFO crash sites until cleaners are dealt with.

Ditto, I have a secton captured, but there's no option to interrogate it until Xenobiology is researched. Also gives you more chances to train up TUs before needing to really sprint to free people on the harder difficulties.

 

On 12/21/2024 at 7:26 AM, Skitso said:

Grenade launcher is pretty much spot on now. Really fun and satisfying weapon to use.

Mostly, it's weird when a miss does happen though and the grenade flies off at a 45 degree angle from where I was firing. *Edited for image:

image.thumb.png.e552775375f99c1a60ae42b3f710f1e9.png

 

On 12/21/2024 at 5:55 AM, Skitso said:

I would even go further and suggest replacing most aliens with cleaners from all UFO crash sites until cleaners are dealt with.

I think this would be REALLY COOL in the early game to reach a crash site and find only alien corpses and cleaners.

 

Kind of a follow on to the discussion about penalizing doing ground combats, but when I started taking the bounties, it (not fighting all of the ground combats) led to my first wraith/andron fight being a Terror site (which was a massive escalation with ~7 aliens within shooting distance of the drop ship, in addition to them being new types (for a new player). Other playthroughs I encountered them at crash sites first.

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Kinda curious how many people bring/use C4 given the weight?

 

* also it would be nice if units did not preferentially choose paths that cause them the most environmental damage. I know it isn't really like this, but it really feels like it sometimes. I'd rather force them to enter those squares if I really need it.

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I lost a game on Veteran on around day 42 because the Doomsday Clock went over 100, which took me by surprise. It seems to go up very quickly, without obvious cause. I had to divert funds a few times to keep it down even though I completed all missions that came up and I shot down all UFOs I detected. It seemed to jump up sometimes for no apparent reason. Not sure if this was the result of undetected alien operations or a bug. Think it was in the 60s a couple of days before the surprise "You Lose" screen. Although it was an Ironman game, I can see that I still have a save from day 37 and it was in the 60s then at least.

  • If the increases are in response to known events, then it would be nice to improve their visibility or provide a log. It is easy to miss messages on the screen while fast forwarding.
  • If the increases are in response to concealed events, then it might be good to call this out somewhere.
  • It would be good to see a warning if you are in danger of the Doomsday Clock going over 100. I prefer the way region panic works, where it gives you a warning if the threshold is reached, and you have the opportunity to remedy it before the end of the month.
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3 hours ago, pwd said:

It would be good to see a warning if you are in danger of the Doomsday Clock going over 100. I prefer the way region panic works, where it gives you a warning if the threshold is reached, and you have the opportunity to remedy it before the end of the month.

Agreed, I had a thought earlier that it would be nice if the doomsday clock were color coded in some way. Red/green isn't great due to color blindness of course, but something to show some urgency when you are within X days of losing the game at the current rate.

As an aside, I found it very efficient to spend a few hundred OP early on removing the agents (red tiles) to reduce the up-tick. With that I never had to use any OPs directly on lowering the doomsday counter this playthrough. I just hadn't mentally associated "red plates" with +6 to doomsday counter.

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  • I've started 3 different playthroughs now and all the Scouts have had a mantid crew. I suppose this is not intended? Shouldn't there be a system in place that prevents this?
  • Delegation cost of Operation Points is not working. I just cleared my third scout UFO and it did not reduce my OP. (made a bug report)
  • Should bounty option be available at all before the UFO is delegated? (It's mentioned in the UFO delegation pop up that Xenonauts have now gathered enough data for detailed plans how to clear these UFOs, which suggest that governments and military shouldn't be able to do it before that?)
  • Should MARS take damage from Sebillian poison gas?
  • Suppressed sebillian doesn't fire their weapon
  • Units shouldn't plot movement through environmental hazards (fire, poison)
  • Being able to squish symbiots with MARS is perfect. Fun times! :)
  • Gas mask should be visible in tactical combat. I can't remember how wears it and who doesn't.
  • Shield bearers should provide more block value compared to a normal unit (20%). I'd say 40-50% would be more realistic so units behind them would be more safe.
  • Secton-Psyon combo doesn't play well together. Seems like AI doesn't fully understand their synergy possibilities and moves sectons first so they often fire without triangulation buff just to see a psyon move next to them right after that.
  • Mantid could use a slight accuracy nerf.
  • Mesmerize nerf was not needed IMO
  • Day 100 and the Supporter system starts to feel kinda one dimensional. I'm just changing red tiles to grey and grey to green. *yawn* Clearly needs something more to keep it engaging.
Edited by Skitso
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I'm just getting to the second phase of the game, so I'll give you some feedback.

  • I feel like shields have low durability, I lose one in every mission.
  • Mantid larvae are cool.
  • The laser weapon research process should probably be up soon. When I made the first accelerated weapons, I had laser weapon research available.
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10 hours ago, svidangel said:

Agreed, I had a thought earlier that it would be nice if the doomsday clock were color coded in some way. Red/green isn't great due to color blindness of course, but something to show some urgency when you are within X days of losing the game at the current rate.

As an aside, I found it very efficient to spend a few hundred OP early on removing the agents (red tiles) to reduce the up-tick. With that I never had to use any OPs directly on lowering the doomsday counter this playthrough. I just hadn't mentally associated "red plates" with +6 to doomsday counter.

Thanks. Didn't realize that you could remove infiltrators to remove the Doomsday Clock accumulation. Also had assumed it was plus six per month and not per day. 

I was ironman, but a save survived from a few days previous so I've picked it up from there. Did one mission with an outcome of reducing the counter, and it worked as expected when I observed it. 

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On 12/21/2024 at 2:52 PM, Skitso said:

It's way too easy to gather intel on this map. I had 18 computers hacked before any reinforcements.

 

1. Hacking costs zero time. Manipulation should consume time, 8 or better 16. ( anyway, number which can be divided by 4) So in case of 16TU we can say,: "Hack a computer costs 4 tiles of movement. ". This kind of approach can be used for mission tuning. Simply  by add setting that hacking consumes another tile of movement,  makes mission more difficult. It would be nice to have a fancy animation of using PC, writing on keyboard. Best would be a full  animation sit on a chair and use PC. So it is an interaction, something else than just run&shoot. This animation can be  reused for control camera on base defence&assault. Also, change sound when operate PC to the 32kbit modem handshake sample.

 

2. Mission briefing talk about Hacking, but in upper left corner mission log says : "Sabotage Cleaner computer desk". Consistency would be nice, do we do hacking OR sabotaging ?

Edited by gG-Unknown
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I have been playing 5.4 version on Commander difficulty (first 150 days currently)

 

Pacing of the game is too fast for me (I would prefer much slower progression) - there are very little missions / things to do especially early game

New globe and operation point / supporter system is a cool idea but I think it´s a bit too simple...

I would prefer more sophisticated system than just "press button (spend 100 points) and infiltrator is killed". There could be a mission associated with this operation.

It seems Infiltrators don´t influence panic.

I will update it later.

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I got back into Xenonauts 2 a couple weeks ago after a long time away from it. I really like what I'm seeing!

I only have a couple minor comments: (I'm playing on regular difficulty if that makes a difference.)

1) The popup when an alien base is discovered, maybe I read it too fast, but it would be nice if more attention was brought to the fact that the base will continually raise panic in the region.

2) No major AI complaints, but IMO the unarmed civilians should, like, run away from aliens, or away from the landed ship, or even try to hide behind my dropship. Instead they just run around in circles and either get in the way or wait to get shot. Giving them a move destination and having them move from and to cover would be nice.

3) When autoresolving an intercept, it would be nice to get an "after action report" from the pilot, giving some visibility to the underlying math. Like "if I had a wingman I could have gotten 'em" or "my weapons barely made a dent", "my plane was outclassed in every way", "the torpedoes were useless", "the weapons were overkill" or whatever, would all be useful feedback that we as the commander could use to prioritize resources, research, etc., as well as learning how many and what type of interceptors are needed to deal with what type of alien ships. I know it sounds training-wheels-ey, but I guess I'm in n00b territory at the moment. Obviously experienced players would probably want to be able to disable them.

Edited by dave_the_nerd
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  • Mantid missing with a symbiote weapon causes frustration as it's not always clear where the symbiote lands. Maybe make the symbiote "bullet" larger and fly slower or consider making it more like a grenade? Should new symbiotes also show the "new enemy detected" popup? (might become too annoying?)
  • I'm not sure if the symbiote weapon offers enough threat. Maybe make the weapon less accurate but with lower TU cost so mantid shoots more of them?
  • Reapers are still completely useless. They don't do nearly enough damage to reliably one-shot units and needs three or more consecutive hits to even pierce an upgraded shield. Buff their damage and make them have a "small, fast and agile" trait to make them much more difficult to hit. That, or up their AI a lot.
  • Reapers should ignore MARS and prioritize organic material.
  • Sebillians need something more too. Make them have more health and make their armor regenerate slowly too.
  • Terror sites' penalty of 20 panic seems too low. It's an easy pass most of the time. Make it 30 or even 35.
  • There are too few UFOs flying around. While slowing down the progression, add more UFOs and change delegation to be after 3 UFOs.
  • The first observer crash site mission against wraith/servitor crew was too easy. Didn't feel like a step up from destroyers. 13 aliens.
  • Servitor AI isn't good enough. It should try to avoid Xenonauts and keep it's distance, hanging close to other units to be able to heal them. Should fire more often, even with very low hit chances to suppress more actively.
  • If I remember correctly, I've not had any abduction missions after the first one. High panic regions should probably spawn these more.
Edited by Skitso
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20 hours ago, Skitso said:
  • Mantid missing with a symbiote weapon causes frustration as it's not always clear where the symbiote lands. Maybe make the symbiote "bullet" larger and fly slower. Maybe consider making it more like a grenade? Also, I'm not sure if the symbiote weapon offers enough threat.
  • Reapers are still completely useless. Make them have a "small, fast and agile" trait to make them much more difficult to hit. That, or up their AI a lot.
  • There's too few UFOs flying around. Delegation after 3 UFOs would be better.
  • The more I play, the more it feels like the game rushes forward way too fast. Stopped playing and waiting for further balance updates.

On my milestone 4 game I found that reapers' efficacy depended on the map. When they spawned amongst a bunch of shipping containers they were a challenge and gave the impression of applying effective guerilla tactics.

I like the fast pacing, especially in the context of ironman games. Seems like something that could be configured at the game start as individual preferences vary.

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5 hours ago, Komandos said:

It's a sword by weight.

Knife should wieght about same like assault gun ammo clip.

BTW I like the new rule, reduction DEX on Suppression. Small rule but significant gameplay change.

Can we get two attack modes on knife ?

stab - make bleed, slow (higher TU consumption)

slice - no bleed, higher chance to hit, quick (lower TU), low  dmg

also add rule bleeding melee makes suppression

 

 

Edited by gG-Unknown
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On 12/21/2024 at 1:26 PM, Skitso said:
  • Does tactical module give the player any meaningful tactical choices (build variation wise)? I would love to get the armor plate module back to give more possibilities and build variations. The current armor system is fine as it is now, but just bring the armor plate module back to give +x armor. Then I could choose between additional accuracy, additional armor or more inventory space and strong units could take both. At least at the beginning of the game, there's so much inventory space that I can put the tactical module into pretty much everyone's inventory.
  • I still feel like the accelerated weapons become obsolete too quickly. I mean they are so easy to skip it's not even an option for me.
  • AI feels too aggressive which makes many of the missions very front loaded.
  • Gas masks are still not useful enough to consider. Fill crashed UFOs with smoke (and fire) and I would definitely start using them.
  • Demolition charge feels OP. For such a large explosive, you shouldn't be able to throw it so far.
  • Grenade launcher is pretty much spot on now. Really fun and satisfying weapon to use.

Have accelerated weapon not need production, just replace base equipment. Smoke and fire should be outside the UFO, you need mask to open door and throw your own smoke, also then cant snipe all aliens with soldiers all equiped with flashbang. I like the cleaners on earlier crash site missions, this is essentially 'cleaning' being visible.

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I'll just give another feedback about the front loaded missions, excessive spawning around landing zones and over aggressive AI.

Nine enemies at the start of the mission and 5 more rushed me on the first AI turn. I had absolutely no chance of survival:

Image1.jpg

I reloaded the mission four times and gave it just about everything I got. So many enemies on three fronts, so close... Bullet sponge androns and suppressing servitors (which in turn neither can be suppressed) combined with sniping wraiths and few grenades made this mission start absolutely impossible. (this was on day 151, second terror site on veteran) Huge difficulty spike. My first terror site just 30 days before (?) against sebillian/mantid/reaper crew was a complete cake walk with 0 casualties.

Edited by Skitso
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I like when they rush you at the start. Shields, liberal use of explosives and snipers can counter it.

Had one where there were 28 wraith/andron/reaper enemies on a terror mission and probably 20 of them were killed before I left the area around the ship. Most of my squad had non recharging lasers and ran out of ammunition by the end. 

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