Quick Update on our Current Priorities!

[Tacobandit]

I think there is some variation but I am not sure.

I don't always finish a fight with the same percentage of damage even if I appear to get hit the same number of times but that is purely from my own observations.

So with the assumption that you will never top the best alien crafts available, the fact that weapon damage variation is minimal, and shots don't miss unless you dodge them, it is impossible to win any air scenario without at least trying.

There go my interceptors.

[lemm]

Is the enemy going to be using a lot of smoke grenades? When I played UFO2000, the first thing I noticed was that the good players threw smoke grenades... I mean A LOT OF smoke grenades... maybe 3 or 4 per turn in the opening rounds of the game, so that their scouts could advance and spot for their snipers in the backfield.

I'm asking because I've never seen enemies use smoke grenades in any of the Microprose XCOM games (I don't think aliens even had smoke weapons either) and I haven't seen aliens throw them in this game either. I'm also mentioning it because I think it could make the AI a lot trickier to handle without the use of cheap tactics like mind control or guided rockets.

[raziel1981]

I say leave the air combat as is, only add a kamikaze maneuver to it as well !

[Gauddlike]

So with the assumption that you will never top the best alien crafts available, the fact that weapon damage variation is minimal, and shots don't miss unless you dodge them, it is impossible to win any air scenario without at least trying.

There go my interceptors.

That would be because the air combat would not be balanced to be easily won without the player taking part.

If it was balanced that way then it could end up incredibly easy to win by anyone who intervened in the fight.

As I mentioned before though, just because the game has been balanced in a certain way doesn't mean you can't tweak it to fit your preferences.

Increased human craft weapon range, fire speed, damage, decreased alien craft health and so on can all be adjusted by you so that the air fights were over faster and required less intervention.

[HWP]

That would be because the air combat would not be balanced to be easily won without the player taking part.

If it was balanced that way then it could end up incredibly easy to win by anyone who intervened in the fight.

So your aircrafts' autonomous behavior should be improved from the level of a brick on the throttle to a level of, let's say... Maybe not a trained monkey, but at least an average dog. A couple simple checks to enable dodge behavior.

That will require more finesse for the player to be useful, but not too much.

[Gorlom]

HWP you wouldn't be able to mod that since it requires functions that are not in the game... Are you suggesting the current airbattle should change to include basic AI? (This to accommodate people like Tacobandit that doesn't enjoy the current AB at all and just wants to skip it??)

Wouldn't the AI and the player that wants to play the airbattle themselves end up give conflicting commands? I just don't see any neat solution to that particular problem. How would you solve that bit?

[Tacobandit]

HWP you wouldn't be able to mod that since it requires functions that are not in the game... Are you suggesting the current airbattle should change to include basic AI? (This to accommodate people like Tacobandit that doesn't enjoy the current AB at all and just wants to skip it??)

Wouldn't the AI and the player that wants to play the airbattle themselves end up give conflicting commands? I just don't see any neat solution to that particular problem. How would you solve that bit?

How about a button before you start the game that says "simplified air combat", similar to the OG, and "advanced air combat" as the current system? I don't know if it would even be possible to make simplified air combat, but there's an idea.

[Gorlom]

How about a button before you start the game that says "simplified air combat", similar to the OG, and "advanced air combat" as the current system? I don't know if it would even be possible to make simplified air combat, but there's an idea.

It is, I don't particularly like what it implies to the player though, and it means extra work for the devs. Time that they could spend on other things if we users fix it by modding the AirBattle balance ourselves. The results would essentially be the same, but for some reason you seem to be very opposed to mods?

[Betuor]

If you want easy air combat, give each sidewinder 4 shots, really easy.

[HWP]

Wouldn't the AI and the player that wants to play the airbattle themselves end up give conflicting commands? I just don't see any neat solution to that particular problem. How would you solve that bit?

Two methods. Either one can be used or both at once.

1) Setting for "Auto air combat: On, Off" or "Always, Smart, Never"

2) If the player doesn't give any orders, planes follow the auto script. If the player gives any orders, he's in charge.

If both 1 and 2 are implemented, the second option is used if Smart is selected. If Always is selected, planes perform scripted actions unless that specific plane was overridden by player. If Never is selected, combat works like now.

The auto script should be really basic, just make the planes less suicidal - dodge if any missile has been launched and under enemy fire.

[StellarRat]

I'll make GJ talk about the AI on the forum in a couple of weeks. It's the biggest missing puzzle piece and I'd rather he was working on it than writing about it at the moment.

Is it time yet? Is it time yet? <jumps up and down with anticipation of news>

[ooey]

Um... air combat is integral to the game. There is no point in automating it.

[alcari]

There's no point in boring us to death with hundreds of unlosable matches either, right?

[ooey]

There's no point in boring us to death with hundreds of unlosable matches either, right?

I used to like unloosable matches in the original. Kind of made up for the ones where you got slaughtered. I've found that, in many games where this option is available, unless you micromanage situations such as this, you tend to come out the worse for wear (i.e. take some damage whereas normally you wouldn't). This could make all the difference in certain situations.

Maybe it's something Chris will think of afterwards to refine the game a bit, but it's certainly no biggie.

[Tacobandit]

Um... air combat is integral to the game. There is no point in automating it.

Air combat was never integral to X-COM. Why do you think it was an amusing minigame?

[alcari]

I used to like unloosable matches in the original. Kind of made up for the ones where you got slaughtered. I've found that, in many games where this option is available, unless you micromanage situations such as this, you tend to come out the worse for wear (i.e. take some damage whereas normally you wouldn't).

True, I liked the occasional scout in the original x:com late game. Free materials that you badly need and some XP for the rookies

But, i'm already seeing that in xenonauts the (so far) best way to shoot down scouts is to send a MIG with 4 sidewinders. In 99% of circumstances (all that aren't a head-on intercept) you literally don't have to do anything. Wait a while, MIG shoots 4 missiles, UFO goes down without having a chance at a shot. In 1% of cases, you might take a single hit and suffer a few hours worth of damage.

The same goes, in a way, for a MIG vs 1 fighter combat. You still have to stagger your missile launches, but it's really hard to lose.

I wouldn't mind a little routine like this

IF Number_of_similar_fights >= 10

AND Arbitrary_strength = $somevaluethatmeansyourestronger

THEN EnableAutoresolve = true

[ooey]

Air combat was never integral to X-COM. Why do you think it was an amusing minigame?

Yes, it's much more sophisticated in xenonauts that it ever was in the original, but it still added something to the game. Of course it was integral! That's why Chris has seen fit to include it in the updated verson of ufo:EU. Unless you're talking about the new xcom that is...

Edited January 24, 2013 by ooey

[Gorlom]

There's no point in boring us to death with hundreds of unlosable matches either, right?

That's why there aren't any planned for Xenonauts. I'm pretty sure that weak UFOs stop showing up at certain points on the ticker system.

[thothkins]

I wonder if there's a point where you get "local forces have downed a UFO" type boxes, in addition to the smaller ones vanishing. Perhaps the medium ones begin to vanish too.

[ooey]

That's why there aren't any planned for Xenonauts. I'm pretty sure that weak UFOs stop showing up at certain points on the ticker system.

Boy, this is going to be one tough game when its finished!

[Tacobandit]

Boy, this is going to be one tough game when its finished!

The only tough thing about the game I find so far is the OP fighters. Other than that, the battlescape is easy; I've only lost men so far to friendly fire.

[Jean-Luc]

The only tough thing about the game I find so far is the OP fighters. Other than that, the battlescape is easy; I've only lost men so far to friendly fire.

Yes well, playing an unfinished game with almost no balancing done any barely any AI would be easy but things will change.

[thothkins]

what Jean-Luc? You're saying it's not my tactical genius that makes my interceptions go so well?

Still, when a man in a Bicorne, staring out to sea, tells you to do better, you've really got to listen...

[Gauddlike]

Or knock his hat off and giggle all the way to the brig, depending on how long you have been at sea.

[hdewulf]

I always ensure that a couple of my XNs have stun batons for dealing with the local ground forces.