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SirAstral

Tighten up fire accuracy

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Some of the wild shots that happen in this game are too unbelievable. I am not asking that actual accuracy be improved, but it should not be possible for an aimed sniping shot to even be anywhere near 45 Degrees off so much that a friendly was capped in the bum. Not even a child shooting for the first time in their life has aim that bad, so make missed shots look realistic instead of like a clown juggling a loaded firearm. Not even a 0% chance to hit should solicit that level of clown accuracy.

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I will, to a point, agree with this. Although I would consider it a very minor issue to be worked out when compared to all of the other issues that need to be ironed out.

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It's a fairly major issue, there's *too much* friendly fire - sometimes it seems to be more probable than hitting the actual target, despite the friendly hit not blocking the line of fire. If there isn't one already, there probably should be an extra check, after miss-hitting a tile, for whether that miss would hit a person in that tile.

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One more thing that ticks me off - when the shot hit and kill the alien it continue its trajectory just like it's a missed. Or like the alien have just been scratched by the bullet right at his Achilles heel and then fall dead...

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Or like the alien have just been scratched by the bullet right at his Achilles heel and then fall dead...

Maybe the shots were incredibly lucky and severed a major artery near the surface of the skin?

But I do agree...it's kinda like the stupid CoD "Imma fire mah sniper from da hip cause it's no-scope tamh!" thing where even though the barrel of the gun is pointed directly at a target only 6 feet away, the bullet manages to fly three feet to the right and hit your buddy in the head.

Seeing as how these guys are supposed to at least be experienced with firearms, at least have the round fly a plausible distance away from intended Xeno (or Civi if they're not behaving...) target.

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Yep, totally agree, and I'll add that where the shots seem to suddenly "drop" and hit the ground seems a bit off as well...

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The game did have closer to "realistic" misses in an earlier build. But for some reason the hit and miss calculations got messed up. Shots that were designated as misses missed so narrowly that they still traveled through the tile and behaved as a hit and damaged the units.

(And then there is the nostalgia factor too :P)

SuichiNiwa: From which weapon? Is that from a weapon with a hypervelocity tag like a sniper rifle? or is it from any weapon?

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@SuichiNiwa: Thats the hypervelocity. Powerful weapons might pass through objects if damage is high enough. Its just great. Because you know, unless hitting bones or being slowed down by a vest or other protection this is very likely for a bullet.

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There is quite a lot of discussion about this, have a look at one of the other threads for more detailed explanations and some suggestions on how to fix it.

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Mave a maximum deviation. Problem solved.

No matter how bad you miss, you won't miss by more than 30°. Or whatever number oyu put in.

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Mave a maximum deviation. Problem solved.

No matter how bad you miss, you won't miss by more than 30°. Or whatever number oyu put in.

that still means that you automatically hit from one-two squares away...

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If you miss from 1-2 squares away, you deserve to get munched by an alien. It seems like a fair trade off to me, if the alien is tough enough to survive those shots, he's gonna smash your ass.

EDIT: I should note that I don't care much either way, if the shots are wildly inaccurate, that just makes it more satisfying when the stray shot manages to hit a different alien.

Edited by LesserAngel

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@SuichiNiwa: Thats the hypervelocity. Powerful weapons might pass through objects if damage is high enough.

Hypervelocity impacts actually cause fluid-like behavior in both materials, so the higher the velocity, the less intact is the projectile. Tank rounds outright enter as mostly shards (and that's a lot more effective than if they entered intact).

For hypervelocity bullets, they tend to disintegrate after impact.

that still means that you automatically hit from one-two squares away...

A target doesn't take the whole tile, so two checks are needed - tile hit, and % target hit in that tile. Or just target hit check.

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Hypervelocity impacts actually cause fluid-like behavior in both materials, so the higher the velocity, the less intact is the projectile. Tank rounds outright enter as mostly shards (and that's a lot more effective than if they entered intact).

For hypervelocity bullets, they tend to disintegrate after impact.

The hyper velocity tag works differently in this game compared to real life in that case. It's initially there to help the game shoot through windows (every weapon counts as a hypervelocity weapon as far as window tiles are concerned) as the inability to do so was quite jarring to players. It then also got added to the more powerful weapons so that they could hit more than one enemy.

A target doesn't take the whole tile, so two checks are needed - tile hit, and % target hit in that tile. Or just target hit check.

Do you know how the engine and game calculates collisions or are you assuming?

I admit that I was assuming, but since that was the problem as described...

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Do you know how the engine and game calculates collisions or are you assuming?

No, I'm just saying that hitting a tile doesn't have to be equivalent to hitting a target in that tile. Not sure if it's done that way already.

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Hypervelocity impacts actually cause fluid-like behavior in both materials, so the higher the velocity, the less intact is the projectile. Tank rounds outright enter as mostly shards (and that's a lot more effective than if they entered intact).

For hypervelocity bullets, they tend to disintegrate after impact.

You're going too literal about it. In this game hypervelocity just means if the projectile has enough force to penetrate the obstacle.

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Yeah, nvm, if it's just a tag name, that's that.

That's not the issue at hand anyway.

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A standing human (I assume alien as well) is hit by a shot passing through its tile 100% of the time.

A kneeling target falls to 60% chance.

From the wiki:

As stopping value is derived mostly from the height of the object, this is to prevent a shot flying over a tall wall and then hitting a small object on the other side of it (which would be impossible). Battlefield units of any description that are not in cover have a stopping chance of 100%.

If a unit is in cover and the target is firing past them, the higher of the cover object’s stopping value and the stopping value for a crouching soldier (60%) is used for the combined ‘object’. If a shot hits the combined object, the cover save mechanic below is used to assign hits.

The game currently has a maximum deviation for a miss.

Any shots that miss but still pass through the target tile will therefore still hit the target (or at least have a good chance to).

If the deviation angle is too narrow (as it was in a previous build) then missing still gave your shots a good chance to damage your target.

It was noticed that shots with a 50+% hit chance rarely missed because of this problem.

The miss deviation was expanded to give shots a chance to actually miss their target.

With a tight miss deviation you would hit every shot (against a standing target) out to the range where the deviation angle covered two tiles.

At that point you would have a chance to hit equal to your accuracy but even on a miss you would then have a 50-50 chance to hit them.

When the angle covered three tiles you would have a ~33% chance to hit after rolling a miss.

The effect is much more noticeable when you have soldiers with low accuracy.

They may only have a 10% hit chance (poor accuracy, short range weapon, target in cover etc) but as long as the max miss deviation is tight they would still hit 50-75% of the time.

The mechanic needs reworking and suggestions have been made in several other threads on how this could be done.

Hopefully Chris will look at this sooner or later.

Edited by Gauddlike

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I think we should just apply the method favoured by the Orks of the Warhammer 40k universe to this game:

MORE DAKKA.

The Proposal: Equip all Xenonauts with automatic weapons which they can only fire in full auto.

Result: Lots more bullets in the air, so many in fact it doesn't matter if some go off at 45* angles as they're completely showering an entire area with lead.

This may or may not be a serious post :)

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that still means that you automatically hit from one-two squares away...

You make this sound like a bad thing, when in fact it is very well known that it is practically impossible to miss any human sized object at that range. when you are that close to an object you should not even need to use anything other than a snap shot with 100% accuracy.

Keep in mind this is not a bad mechanic as it provides increased risk of getting your bollocks ventilated by a reaction shot while you are trying to get up close and personal with an alien.

There should be no missing going on when units are just a couple of squares away from each other.

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You make this sound like a bad thing, when in fact it is very well known that it is practically impossible to miss any human sized object at that range. when you are that close to an object you should not even need to use anything other than a snap shot with 100% accuracy.

Keep in mind this is not a bad mechanic as it provides increased risk of getting your bollocks ventilated by a reaction shot while you are trying to get up close and personal with an alien.

There should be no missing going on when units are just a couple of squares away from each other.

Ofc there should. This isn't real life. this is a game and you have to balance it as such. If the devs find that its balanced then fine.

But the mechanics is flawed when it causes misses to hit.

Edited by Gorlom

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Ofc there should. This isn't real life. this is a game and you have to balance it as such. If the devs find that its balanced then fine.

But the mechanics is flawed when it causes misses to hit.

I'd find it pretty ridiculous if I did miss a shot on an adjacent enemy. Unlike some, I don't push for realism for the sake of realism since Xenonauts really isn't that game, but that would be on the scale of "tribals chucking spears and killing a MBT" of breaking my suspension of disbelief. :P

I think 45 degree deviation is a bit big and may force players to set up their squads just to avoid such crazy friendly fire.

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You make this sound like a bad thing, when in fact it is very well known that it is practically impossible to miss any human sized object at that range. when you are that close to an object you should not even need to use anything other than a snap shot with 100% accuracy.

Keep in mind this is not a bad mechanic as it provides increased risk of getting your bollocks ventilated by a reaction shot while you are trying to get up close and personal with an alien.

There should be no missing going on when units are just a couple of squares away from each other.

If an injured (assuming accuracy reduction) soldier was to be firing an alien heavy weapon (alien weapons are unwieldy so have penalties to accuracy, plus heavy weapons get an accuracy penalty when moving) from the hip while sprinting and at a target who is obscured by thick smoke standing behind a low wall it would still be impossible to miss.

That sounds like a bad mechanic.

And that is only in an extreme scenario.

Any one or more of those things should have an effect on your hit chance but none would.

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Hit chance should NOT be 100% for close range.

Even FO cut it to 95%.

But any possibility of hitting a target off by more than maybe 5-10 DOA, and that's in the most extreme of the extreme cases, should be eliminated. That doesn't happen with deliberate discharge and shouldn't happen in the game. The only way one could miss by that much is in panic.

Blind people do 1 DOA hits, you can aim that crudely by sound alone. Now, there's the target moving, so you can make a mistake with targeting, but you don't fire on friendlies in such cases.

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There have been suggestions on how to tweak the existing mechanic to make this sort of deviation less likely without making super accurate shots the norm.

Anyone who wants to chip in with new ones might come up with something that can be used to solve the issue.

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