Jump to content
Charon

[1.65/X.CE V0.35.0] X-Division 1.00 Beta (1.00.10)

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, Dr. Ethan said:

@Changeling_wil ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. btw have you found any bugs in my mod?

I haven't tried it yet. I didn't want to risk messing up my game by adding it ('specially since I'm already dealing with phase 2 mods) until others had checked it. Thus the confusion (and annoyance) about how your efforts were being reacted to. Apologies.

 

1 hour ago, Charon said:

@Dagar what provocations ? As always, im ready to improve on myself, so i would ask for concrete examples which can be improved upon ( use the quote function ).

I wholeheartedly disagree. All the people who ever had the faintest honest spark in their heart to contribute towards X-Division, on an X-Division standard, were able to.

...like the guy whose worked on integrating another mod, worked on it, and posted links to ask if it all works, only to get ignored? 

 

3 hours ago, Dagar said:

I just felt the need to give my 0.02$ to the situation here, and there are three things I want to adress:

- Charon definitely is not easy to communicate with online (I could use more unpleasant words, but I won't). Regulars here know this; PALU for example powered through this with his lore writing and is the workhorse for the Xenopedia now, even though Charon treated him the same way as he did with Dr. Ethan a couple of days ago. Charon is definitely not the type of guy to say "Oh, you want to do something on the code, well welcome to the team, here is your badge." Charon is the kind of skeptic who wants to see that you are doing it for the sake of doing it, that you are not stealing his time and that you can learn what you need to without him holding your hand. If he sees that you persist, and that what you do is good, he may ask you if you want to integrate it into the mod.

- That's how mod teams tend to work in general. You'll get one good dedicated person to work with forn a couple of dozen who just "had an idea" and are gone after a week. In the worst case, the latter can ruin your code base, in the best they have stolen your time better spent with the few people who stay.

- Dr. Ethan did not react kindly to Charons provocations, to say the least, so to me it seems reasonable of Charon not to react at all. I may have done the same in his stead.

So yeah, Charon does not do the best job to make it attractive and easy to contribute to X-Div, but he is the one heading the project afaik, so you either do your own thing or you integrate.

 From what I've read in the thread, that seems about right.

 

One person comes off as stingy and looking down the nose, the other comes off as 'well fuck you then' and easily annoyed by rejection.

 

TBH it's kinda dumb.  We clearly all enjoy the mod. If someone wants to work on a submod that adds new features, I don't get why it has to end up like this. Note I used the term 'submod' there. e.g., if people get their panties in a twist about work not being a good enough standard to add to the main mod? So what, it's an optional submod that you can add.

 

Admittedly, I am basing my knowledge of how mods and submods work on the practises at the total war centre, since I've been there far longer than I have here. Apologies if I'm talking nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see that some people are upset that Charon is not paying attention to Dr. Ethan. I'm not a mind reader so I can't explain the mind of someone else, but because humans are not vulcans I can make some educated guesses. People don't always get on together. People looking on the outside cannot understand why the people involved cannot get on. People cannot be made to get on. People who previously did not get on, may get on in the future. I would ask people to look at the friction they have had with other people in their own RL lives before they cast the stone of condemnation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:

I dont get it either. I can see how it has come to this, but why it has escalated to this point I dont really understand. The problem is though that the best person to ask for advice or help with this integration is @Charon , so the situation between him and @Dr. Ethan is not optimal I would say.

Absolutly agree, including fixing the LOS holes.

 

@Dr. Ethan How many of the ships are done, the first phase ? Would you mind if I try it out and test it ?

@Svinedrengen i have added and tested the scout and the light scout, however, there are sub-maps for some of the higher tier ones like the cruiser the bomber corvette (and the other corvettes i think) and some of the landers that i added but haven't tested, and the mod is on the steam workshop which i posted a link to in a previous comment, if you want i could link it again or upload the straight file.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the thing that some people maybe are forgetting

@Charon is not charging us to play X-Div, we are not paying customers, so he is not obligated to answer anything if he dos not want to, just like the rest of us dont have to. He dos not owe us anything. It is quite simple and should be respected, no matter how weird you might think the behavier is. Yes I also think this situation is akward and will agree with Changeling that it is kinda dumb, and I will leave it at that as it is none of my bisness. However I will say from personal exsperience, that Charon has been extremly helpful and has shown alot of patience towards me, when I have been fumbling around with my files like a dumbass and messed stuff up. 

 

@Dr. Ethan I will take a look at it later today. 

 

Edited by Svinedrengen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dr. Ethan

On 2/22/2019 at 5:50 PM, Charon said:

If you have a corvette submap it needs to contain the right props, otherwise no datacore will be recovered

I can confirm this, the datacores are not been recovered, which is a pretty big deal. It is like trying to beat the game with no alloys, not gonna happen. Otherwise it works, except also the beautiful redecorations of the ships that Charon made are missing. I did not feel the need to test any further because of this, but if you can fix it I will gladly test all the ships for you. 

 

See this is what I was saying, Charon is the go to guy about this, he knows what he is talking about, so the fact that you two got started on the wrong foot is very unfortunate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:

I can confirm this, the datacores are not been recovered, which is a pretty big deal.

 

which maps?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, that was me. If it's not already clear, nobody should be reposting X-Division files without permission from the X-Division team. I also expect people not to say rude things to each other on these forums and I publicly gave Dr Ethan a formal warning about doing both of those things in another thread that is now hidden (hence why I'm making this post).

I therefore consider this matter closed and I hope everyone can move on from the issue. I would prefer a situation where everyone gets on with each other, but obviously I also understand sometimes people have disagreements or just don't like each other. If people don't want to talk to one another then that's not something the moderators can get involved with - we're just here to make sure people follow the rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Chris said:

Yeah, that was me. If it's not already clear, nobody should be reposting X-Division files without permission from the X-Division team. I also expect people not to say rude things to each other on these forums and I publicly gave Dr Ethan a formal warning about doing both of those things in another thread that is now hidden (hence why I'm making this post).

I therefore consider this matter closed and I hope everyone can move on from the issue. I would prefer a situation where everyone gets on with each other, but obviously I also understand sometimes people have disagreements or just don't like each other. If people don't want to talk to one another then that's not something the moderators can get involved with - we're just here to make sure people follow the rules.

@Chris I only said rude things because charon said rude things (which he may say weren't rude but they definitely were). But as I also said in that post, I lost all of the will to try anymore XD I just wanted more people to be able to play the experimental version because it is way less buggy and has way less spelling errors than the version they released more than 2 years ago. (BTW I didn't even upload the file at first, I first linked to the comment which charon made for the experimental version and he freaked out that i linked to it and deleted it which is why I escalated it to uploading the file) Anyway i don't care anymore, Xenonauts 2 is set to release soon and I just want to move on to that instead of being beaten down here XD. Perhaps even figure out modding in X2 ;) 

Edited by Dr. Ethan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dr. Ethan said:

@Chris I only said rude things because charon said rude things (which he may say weren't rude but they definitely were). But as I also said in that post, I lost all of the will to try anymore XD I just wanted more people to be able to play the experimental version because it is way less buggy and has way less spelling errors than the version they release more than 2 years ago. (BTW I didn't even upload the file at first, I first linked to the comment which charon made for the experimental version and he freaked out that i linked to it and deleted it which is why I escalated it to uploading the file) Anyway i don't care anymore, Xenonauts 2 is set to release soon and I just want to move on to that instead of being beaten down here XD. Perhaps even figure out modding in X2 ;) 

It doesn't really matter why you were reposting files without permission, you're simply not allowed to do it. Also, I only read a few interactions but I didn't see Charon being rude to you. Maybe I missed something but I can only moderate the posts that I see.

Anyway, I've now clearly told you what you're allowed to do and what you're not allowed to do so just follow the rules and everything will be fine. There's still a lot to do on X2 and I'd rather not spend any more time on forum moderation than I have to!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/19/2019 at 12:15 AM, Charon said:

dont threaten the peace of the thread. Especially not questions which have been answered before and/or which information is easily available by reading the first post

Misleading, wrong, and rude.

On 2/19/2019 at 12:15 AM, Charon said:

The thing with @PALUis an intern development discussion for everybody to read and participate in, as is the 1.00.10 version.

(just wanted to point this out that he said everybody to read and participate in so idk why he got mad at me for posting the link to his comment).

On 2/21/2019 at 11:59 AM, Charon said:

I could tell you if you ask me very nicely. Or you could add another "search for the problem 5 hours" to your list. What do you want ?

A bit condescending.

On 2/22/2019 at 9:50 AM, Charon said:

Im pretty sure you are wrong.

If you have a corvette submap it needs to contain the right props, otherwise no datacore will be recovered.

But you will easily see that once you try it.

4

Condescension disguised as being "helpful" (assuming i have no idea what i am doing)

On 2/24/2019 at 1:17 AM, Charon said:

@Dr. Ethan has never been given any permission to use anything and WILL NOT gain any permission of any nature whatsoever in the future.

Even though this is strongly worded i didn't take any offense but still a little rude (however if i had no permission to do anything with the mod whatsoever he shouldn't be allowing me to port fire in the hole for it seaming that it uses some x division assets but whatever)  

On 2/24/2019 at 8:29 AM, Charon said:

Said statement doesnt mean anybody who thinks they are "contributing" gets a free pass or access to anything. But i aknowledge quality and hard work, and take what i think contributes to X-Division and give credit where it is due, without regard to my own ego ( eg. what i personally think about the person )

5

First off a jab at saying I am not contributing at all I only think I am, secondly, his last statement is funny since he has stopped talking to/acknowledging me or my mod. 

On 3/11/2019 at 10:54 AM, Charon said:

I wholeheartedly disagree. All the people who ever had the faintest honest spark in their heart to contribute towards X-Division, on an X-Division standard, were able to.

Other than me ;)

So in total, that is all the times he was rude.

Edited by Dr. Ethan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys, looks like a massive mod, looking forward to playing.

Just a question on the rookie soldier stats in X-Division.

One of the only things that annoys me about Xenonauts is a) How crap your 'special forces' rookies are combined with b) How superhumanly good veterans can become. To me this effectively punishes not grinding every single ground mission, which can get tedious, and late-game makes any mission where you lose several veterans catastrophic. I think losses of experienced soldiers should hurt, but not to the point where losing an elite team cripples your game.

So I generally go to the config file and boost the recruit stats slightly, generally just the minimum values, not maximum. I had a look in the X-Division file, and they are changed from vanilla -

actionPoints min="40" max="65" />
    <resilence    min="35" max="65" />
    <strength     min="40" max="70" />
    <accuracy     min="30" max="60" />
    <reflexes     min="15" max="45" />
    <bravery      min="35" max="65" />

I guess this is for balance reasons, but they just seem really low to me. Is there a reason that the reflex value, particularly, has such a low range? Can I go ahead and bump these up without destroying some balance with the mod?

Thanks a lot.

Edited by Borak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Dr. Ethan said:

@Svinedrengen what redecorations are you talking about?

You havent noticed how shiny the ships look in X-Div ?

 

9 hours ago, Dr. Ethan said:

which maps?

I have only tested the lightscout, scout and corvette. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Borak My advice would be that you try X-Div out before you change something, simply because you dont know yet if it needs to be changed. When I first tried X-Div my biggest concern was the low stats of soldiers too, but once I started playing I very quickly realized how fast your soldiers gains stats. It is not uncommon that they will gain 20+ stats total per mission in the first missions which are just small ships, when you encounter the bigger ships you can easily gain 40+ stats total. You can still grind it if you really want too, but it is definatly not neccesary at all. 

If you look at the armours in the x-pedia, you will also see that they give stat bonus to certain attributes. In general my advice would be to read all the info in the x-pedia and the tooltips, lots of helpful information is there.

Good luck with the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Dr. Ethan said:

Misleading, wrong, and rude.

(just wanted to point this out that he said everybody to read and participate in so idk why he got mad at me for posting the link to his comment).

A bit condescending.

Condescension disguised as being "helpful" (assuming i have no idea what i am doing)

Even though this is strongly worded i didn't take any offense but still a little rude (however if i had no permission to do anything with the mod whatsoever he shouldn't be allowing me to port fire in the hole for it seaming that it uses some x division assets but whatever)  

First off a jab at saying I am not contributing at all I only think I am, secondly, his last statement is funny since he has stopped talking to/acknowledging me or my mod. 

Other than me ;)

So in total, that is all the times he was rude.

...and now compare all that (which imo was not all that rude, mostly a) roguish and b) very clear to what he thinks about the situation) to what you did, and then ask yourself again why Chris (I'm not linking him on purpose here, let them work on Xeno2) took steps against you and not Charon. If you can't find anything wrong with your behaviour, think again harder.

That said, I'd still love to see breach points on UFOs in X-Division. But if it's not happening, that's also okay. X-Div has enough content already and Xeno2 is not that far (and with better mod support, it seems - Yay!)

@Borak: Later in the game, equipment becomes much more impactful than stats, meaning that even rookie soldiers can do good work on the battlefield. The rationale for "bad" veterans in the beginning is that it reflects a new, powerful enemy and new rules of engagement to be learned for the soldiers.

Edited by Dagar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies guys - I'll take your advice and trust the mod has balanced this, and it sounds like it has.

Just to satisfy my curiosity - why the reflex stat is set significantly lower than the others - is this to lessen possibility of reflex fire and alien reflex is also lowered? Or does reflex raise much faster / it's balanced for equipment multipliers?

I guess now I am like that guy who wants to know the end of the movie instead of watching the movie..

Edited by Borak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Borak said:

Just to satisfy my curiosity - why the reflex stat is set significantly lower than the others - is this to lessen possibility of reflex fire and alien reflex is also lowered? Or does reflex raise much faster / it's balanced for equipment multipliers?

The reason for the "low" reflex stats are many, here are a few:

  • To avoid having to give certain armour reflex mali. Coding wise there are many side effects for "mali" which behave differently than "boni".
  • The baseline for the trainable reflex stats has to be 100. Additional boni and mali are not counted towards that. So different armour can give you inbetween 70 to 150 reflexes. Reflexes are a delicate part of the armour system in X-Division, and has to be balanced as such.

The stats may look low, but the basic "no" armour gives you a 20 reflex bonus, because we try to reinforce the idea "Less armour means more reflexes". If you count that towards the base line you get a range of 35 to 65 reflexes on recruits. That is "above average" as far as stat ranges go. You will also find that all early researchable armours have big bonuses towards reflexes, while the later generations of armour radically differ in use and function.

The first aliens reflex stats are only 10 points above your maximum recruiting range, if you play on NG+2. If you play on NG the alien stats are considerably lower than yours. Now if you take into account that you can actually train your guys, while all Phase 1 enemies stay the same i would say its something you can play with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Charon

Which file determines the interval for terrorcarriers ? And what determines when they start to show up ? 

What I want to do is to make them show up an interval earlier than it is now, somewhere around mid september. 

Thanks in advance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys, it's been a while (aka: I was a newbie to xenonauts and xdivision and I wad active here for a few weeks a couple months ago, until I finished my first month with a debt of 2 million and took a break after realizing how much I sucked at the strategic layer).

 

@PALU , would you happen to know about the technical feasibility of changing having a pedia entry unlocked immedieately upon completing any research of a defined set?

I haven't reinstalled the game yet so correct me if I remember things wrong (or they have changed since), but currently the Rifle pedia entry of each alien weapon family is the one with the longass description of that alien weapon family's technology AND the also verbose explanation of the shots-limiting protocols and alien magazine workaround (to justify the gameplay-balancing low ammo capacity of looted alien weapons and not being able to redeploy them on subsequent missions).

I was thinking it it wouldn't be neater to 1. Remove the ammo count part from all alien weapon pedia entries and put it on its own pedia entry, "Alien weapons protocols and reload bypass" or something similar, unlocked automatically a bit after the first succesful mission, and

2. Move the description of an alien weapon family's general workings from its Rifle's pedia entry to a new entry, unlocked automatically alongside the pedia entry of the first alien weapon of that family that you research.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Mr. MisterYes, it is possible to have an entry being unlocked by one research in a set (that's how the Caesan/Sebillian specialist entries work, for instance).

It's a limitation of the structure that you have to make a guess at which order most players unlock things in, as the entries themselves are fixed (and even if it was possible to select entries based on what other entries have been unlocked, it would bloat the entry count a fair bit).

I believe it's technically feasible to introduce new entries that have their own prerequisites, and I believe it's possible to have the "research" be automatic (that's how a number of entries show up currently, e.g. alien craft). However, introduction of new Xenopedia entries has to be done together with new/modified Research entries (or they would never be triggered to appear). Since my work has been Xenopedia entries exclusively, I've had to work within the existing structure. Also, as far as I understand, changes to research that has been unlocked or addition of research that would have been unlocked can lead to the complete inability to get those researches (i.e. screw up your game), so it's something I won't get involved in (I'm close to the end game, waiting for the RNG to drop the final piece of the puzzle, and the game is getting rather long in the tooth).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Svinedrengen

1. gameconfig.xml. Remember to check which mod may overwrite it.
2. AM_Terror.xml

52 minutes ago, Svinedrengen said:

Thanks in advance. 

Ohohoho. Is this the retribution of all that shit getting thrown at me ? I appreciate it.

Edited by Charon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Dagar said:

...and now compare all that (which imo was not all that rude, mostly a) roguish and b) very clear to what he thinks about the situation) to what you did, and then ask yourself again why Chris (I'm not linking him on purpose here, let them work on Xeno2) took steps against you and not Charon. If you can't find anything wrong with your behaviour, think again harder.

That said, I'd still love to see breach points on UFOs in X-Division. But if it's not happening, that's also okay. X-Div has enough content already and Xeno2 is not that far (and with better mod support, it seems - Yay!)

@Borak: Later in the game, equipment becomes much more impactful than stats, meaning that even rookie soldiers can do good work on the battlefield. The rationale for "bad" veterans in the beginning is that it reflects a new, powerful enemy and new rules of engagement to be learned for the soldiers.

@Dagar Like I have said I know I blew everything out of proportion and I never said I didn't do anything wrong I was just blown so far off guard by the relatively rudeness of Charon (not saying it deserved backlash) that I flipped out and attacked. @Charon I am truly sorry for getting this crapfest started and I hope we can treat each other with respect. I really just want to be respected by Charon and the modding community that when I got the opposite I lashed out to try to get that respect. I really don't want to continue this argument anymore so I will most likely not talk about it again.

Edited by Dr. Ethan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:

You havent noticed how shiny the ships look in X-Div ?

 

I have only tested the lightscout, scout and corvette. 

@Svinedrengen First off I would like a specific instance (idk how to spell that) of artwork so I can change it.

Secondly I have tested the light scout and scout and both of those have the correct datacore, unless the normal light scout datacore is something different but I couldn't find a reference to it in x-div before.

Edited by Dr. Ethan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×