Ragnarok Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Personally i see nothing wrong with them. People usually get loud when they dont like something, but keep quiet when they are fine with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I'm liking them, particularly the design for the Landing Ship and the Scout 2.0. However, I think there's a danger everything is just going to end up being an oval at this rate. I think your original Scout design was OK too, because it had quite an interesting shape. As an aside, I notice that the original game had diagonal walls in a way that Xenonauts does not. They're probably not impossible to add though...in fact you could probably just set them to be a full-tile blocking object with a diagonal wall image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 I'm liking them, particularly the design for the Landing Ship and the Scout 2.0. However, I think there's a danger everything is just going to end up being an oval at this rate. I think your original Scout design was OK too, because it had quite an interesting shape. Yeah, that's why I backed off from doing the Corvette as the next step because I was at risk of making it just a slightly larger version of the others but otherwise the same shape and design. Going to try something a bit different with that then (no idea what yet, though), and the same with the Cruiser (I don't know if it was intended, but the Cruiser design felt to me like a homage to the OG terror ships and - personally - I'd quite like to keep that influence). As for diagonal walls: I've been doing these designs under the assumption that diagonal walls would be possible (and a full-tile blocking prop seems fine for this, yes). But I think the designs could be tweaked if this proved to be a problem by squaring them out a bit. @Ragnarok: That's what I hope's the case, yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I have nothing against round/square ufo's. It's a classic shape for a ufo. Liking the landing ship a lot. Love the balcony. I think I'll give it a try too to design few ufos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) I've just added a download to the OP for anyone who fancies doing some playtesting of the Light Scout, Scout and Landing Ship maps. I've not actually tried them myself yet, but they'll definitely be functional. I don't recommend actually playing a proper game with them, though, as I've not set the datacores different between landed and non-landed UFOs. Probably best to do a quick battle or some such. EDIT: Just realised that the Landing Ship won't work properly as I didn't set up the teleporters. Don't have time to fix it right now; will do so later if I have a chance. Edited June 28, 2014 by kabill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Corvette this time... Without exterior walls: With exterior walls: Managed to get something that looks a bit different with the corvette. At least, it's not just a blob. Again, two entrances in the side, which lead into a central cargo bay. Like the Scout, securing one side of the ship is difficult while also ensuring you're not attacked from the other side (in theory). Also, I've updated the link in the OP with the Corvette and fixed the landing ship so the teleporter works. EDIT: Seems like the UFO floor needs setting so it doesn't disappear. It's not a big deal, but I'll include it in future uploads. Edited June 28, 2014 by kabill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) Okay, here is my first take on a Corvette. You will notice the SW and NE rooms are mirrored, also you can only reach the NW room from the SE one. You must effectively use both entry points to clear the entire UFO. There are also a couple strategic walkarounds - neglecting them should put your team in a dire situation. What do you think? Edited June 29, 2014 by KevinHann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I had a shameful surrender after numerous attempts to place a datacore on a single tile rather than across four of them. Let this Light Scout image be the eternal proof of my incompetence: The general idea was to make it relatively hard to attack through the front door, although there are two side doors allowing you to overwhelm whatever aliens are in the back room and then in turn overwhelm the rest by assaulting from two entry points simultaneously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) Did I kill the thread? Anyway, here is a more conventional take at Corvette, looks simple at first glance but should be pretty hard to go through it unscathed: The corner rooms are exact mirrors if you are wondering what's cut off thanks to my fine resolution. Edited June 29, 2014 by KevinHann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 I was collecting my thoughts, but some initial impressions: Not sure I like the Corvette. To go back to the point of form-over function, it feels more like a death-trap maze than a functional spacecraft. I think it's the long, single-tile corridors which are for me the main problem: they don't seem to have any reason to exist other than as coverless death-traps. Also, some of the prop placement is a bit untidy for my preferences, for example around the engine room. That said, there's some bits I do like. I'm actually quite partial to the central corridor and with some tidying up it could be a good idea. I also think the side doors leading into the rooms rather than a central cargo bay could work (although in my own design I was trying to avoid that a bit so it wouldn't end up being a larger version of the Scout). In terms of the light scout, I think it's serviceable but I'm tempted to say that an interior partition is a bad idea. Light Scouts can only hold up to two aliens inside the UFO in any case, so providing the opportunity to pick them off individually probably isn't a good plan (as much as I like the idea of partitions in principle). But I do like the navigation room in the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) I was collecting my thoughts, but some initial impressions:Not sure I like the Corvette. To go back to the point of form-over function, it feels more like a death-trap maze than a functional spacecraft. I think it's the long, single-tile corridors which are for me the main problem: they don't seem to have any reason to exist other than as coverless death-traps. Also, some of the prop placement is a bit untidy for my preferences, for example around the engine room. Due to the lack of more varied ufo props currently, I had to do with what was available so I understand why it might feel that way. I was trying to recreate something in the spirit of "they know you are coming and have set up a perimeter for you" - you aren't assaulting a functional spacecraft, you are assaulting a barricared last stand of desperate enemies who don't necessarily think like we do. The long single-tile corridors are actually supposed to give you an advantage in attacking an otherwise very hard for frontal assault position. They are there to ease you, not to serve as a death trap. I was thinking in the lines of maintenance tunnels when adding them. I actually think the concept of service tunnels (so nicely employed in movies like the Alien franchise) are not only not counter-intuitive, but desperately lacking in Xenonauts. Perhaps it's a personal preference though? Of course it doesn't mean I've translated those ideas on the submap well enough at all. Edited June 29, 2014 by KevinHann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) Alright, let's try something different for Corvette 2.1: You will notice it is very hard to clear the UFO in the conventional way without constantly exposing your soldiers to crossfire from multiple possible directions. On the other hand using the vents should give you tremendous flexibility and rooms can be attacked one by one without any risk of being flanked. I've also picked more appropriate props for visual appeal. For comparison you can look at Corvette 2.0 which is the same design without the vents: What do you think? Edited June 29, 2014 by KevinHann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) I have also revisited my initial Corvette design - let's call this Corvette 1.1. Hopefully this will address kabill's concerns: I've made the maintenance tunnels look the way they are supposed to, and there is no risk to meet aliens in there - they now give your soldiers a much better position to assault the respective rooms if you choose to use them. Hopefully they no longer seem like self-purposed death traps that have no function in a spacecraft. I have also tidied up the corridor and engine room. The final change is I've cut the SE room from the bottom entry, it is now connected to the NE room via a teleporter. The purpose was to give both entry points an equal portion of the UFO. Here is the original Corvette 1.0 for comparison: What do you think? Edited June 29, 2014 by KevinHann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thixotrop Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Hey kabil, have you thought about something like this: level 0 level 1 level 3 All from here: http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Battleship Just wanted to say, that the main UFO area does not have to start at ground level. I guess you can find lots of different shapes and split-up base levels. So have different kind of ships in same class (Corvette A, Crovette B and so on). If not possible or too tough to realize, forget it. Now I will go back to do mapping... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I always loved the tile based UFO designs and although the Xenonauts ones look prettier from outside I would much prefer using OG style ones. I think I have some graph paper and a pencil somewhere, might have to knock up some designs on my break... How does the alien ship work with alien spawning? Do they also have to spawn at ground level only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 1, 2014 Author Share Posted July 1, 2014 @Kevin: I think I like the 2.x designs more than the 1.x designs. What you've done with 1.1 makes the 'vents' more obviously distinct, but I'm not necessarily sure it would work very well still as I'm not sure the vents would add a great deal (or, possibly, might take too much away by making moving around the UFO too safe?). @thixotrop: I actually had a look at the old UFO maps before I started for some inspiration. I'd thought about having a ground entrance leading up into the main UFO as an idea, but I think it would work better with later UFOs (maybe the Carrier or indeed Battleship). Also, I'm not sure how the AI works with multiple floors at the moment; from my understanding of the AI variables they tend to be weighted towards the bottom floor so it might not work well. Be worth an experiment though. @Gauddlike: Basically, you paint "objective" tiles all over the UFO floor which indicates where the aliens spawn (basically, it makes all the tiles in a UFO a possible spawn point for a defensive alien). That allows them to spawn on levels above the ground floor, although whether they choose to stay there is another matter entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I wanted to try something more traditional in terms of shape, so here is Alternative Corvette: kabill will certainly notice those damn awful vents again but this time they only provide minor advantage when attacking the side rooms and you'll have to destroy assets (suffering reduced $) to gain more significant tactical advantage assaulting the rear room, which is set up as a tough last stand for the surviving aliens. Feel free to bash this one to the ground, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'd also like to offer a general observation: UFO assaults might feel much more varied if the game allowed to simply rotate the existing models. Thus, just for fun, Alternative Corvette Reversed: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Another alternate take, without doors. Alternative Corvette 2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Personally I would leave at least one tile between the access door and the edge of the submap, just in case something gets randomly placed along that edge and blocks it off. I know you should be able to breach the walls but aliens shouldn't have to rely on that just to get out from a bad parking space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Another alternate take, without doors. Alternative Corvette 2:[ATTACH=CONFIG]4708[/ATTACH] I really like this one! Awesome! The only problem is see the reaction of the AI programming to this enviroment, in most of the cases result in a real handicap for aliens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Personally I would leave at least one tile between the access door and the edge of the submap, just in case something gets randomly placed along that edge and blocks it off.I know you should be able to breach the walls but aliens shouldn't have to rely on that just to get out from a bad parking space Yeah, this is good advice (although, IIRC, the current Scout and Corvette submaps do have the doors up against the edges). @Kevin: I quite like the alternative corvette layout, although personally I'd suggest giving the rooms a more obvious and clear function than they have at the moment (it's also lacking a navigation room/bridge, which I'd argue is a staple). Also, you'd need to add in a torpedo tube to be consistent with current game balance (the torpedo tubes contain alenium). EDIT: TD's point about AI is actually really important. I've not been able to do a proper test of any of the designs I've done yet, but I'm concerned about how well the AI will be able to use them as I'm still not finding them mobile enough and therefore I don't know whether they'll take advantage of the flaking opportunities provided by the layouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'm gonna get Aaron to do some semi-placeholder tiles for you guys to use for the outer UFO hulls. Shouldn't take him long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Nice! I'll start thinking the layouts right now then! (should we keep the sub map dimensions?) Edited July 2, 2014 by Skitso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Cool. Really wish I wasn't busy with work stuff at the moment. EDIT: For anyone else working on this, it might be worth downloading the link I put in the OP as it contains copies of a number of the alien base props which can be used for UFOs. Might be a time-saver for anyone else wanting to use them. (Although I don't think I've set all the image paths to the new directory as I was doing them piecemeal.) Edited July 2, 2014 by kabill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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