Modular UFOs - Discussion and Suggestions

[kabill]

Datacores are indestructible by default to avoid that very problem.

[KevinHann]

Yet another Saucer, this time Corvette:

As the first more advanced UFO you encounter, it's the first race specific one, too - in this example it is Sebillian.

If someone hints me which were the Ceasan race specific tiles I'll come up with versions for the other two races as well.

[kabill]

If there are any, they will be somewhere in the alien base tileset.

As an aside: Personally, I really like the idea of having UFO designs specific to particular races/missions. However, there's currently no way of actually doing that. It might therefore be a waste of your time to produce them unless you'd be happy with the ship type and alien type being randomly assigned. (Unless, of course, such a feature could be Solved.)

[KevinHann]

If there are any, they will be somewhere in the alien base tileset.

As an aside: Personally, I really like the idea of having UFO designs specific to particular races/missions. However, there's currently no way of actually doing that. It might therefore be a waste of your time to produce them unless you'd be happy with the ship type and alien type being randomly assigned. (Unless, of course, such a feature could be Solved.)

Oh my god, I didn't even think of that.

*Stares at the Mothership and picks up a razor blade*

[kabill]

Well, it's still worth keeping. As I said, it might get Solved at some point.

(Strictly speaking, there's a work-around you could use by using a system like I use in Dynamic UFOs to randomly choose between three UFO types which are distinctive only in terms of their crew composition and therefore interior UFO design. However, it would screw with any custom maps that didn't already plan for it, so it would almost certainly be too costly in terms of compatibility to make it worthwhile.)

[Solver]

I like everything that has been happening in this thread a lot - this is awesome to a ridiculous degree. So it goes without saying that you have my complete support with source code changes needed to pull this off.

[KevinHann]

I like everything that has been happening in this thread a lot - this is awesome to a ridiculous degree. So it goes without saying that you have my complete support with source code changes needed to pull this off.

That sound you just heard wasn't a Tornado coming your way, it was my sigh of relief. Thank you so much!

Well, it's still worth keeping. As I said, it might get Solved at some point.

(Strictly speaking, there's a work-around you could use by using a system like I use in Dynamic UFOs to randomly choose between three UFO types which are distinctive only in terms of their crew composition and therefore interior UFO design. However, it would screw with any custom maps that didn't already plan for it, so it would almost certainly be too costly in terms of compatibility to make it worthwhile.)

Thanks as well for pointing out the possibility, I didn't intend to give up that easily. Your answer caught me in the process of nit-picking the proper tiles for Ceasan version. Also refined the Seb ground tiles as the ones I picked were tremendously ugly.

It's been a struggle though, SubmapEditor keeps crashing for no apparent reason

Edited July 6, 2014 by KevinHann

[Solver]

We can also message on Skype to discuss the improvements you require, really. Whatever is convenient.

Are you really in Bulgaria BTW?

[kabill]

It's been a struggle though, SubmapEditor keeps crashing for no apparent reason

I could be completely wrong, but I think the submap editor has a memory leak issue somewhere. After using it for a while, especially when I do a lot of loading of things, it kills my computer and I have to hard-reset. I can usually get it to work for several hours before it does this, but if you're using a machine with a relatively small amount of RAM it guess it would result in more frequent crashes.

[KevinHann]

Here is the Ceasan Saucer Corvette variation:

Not very impressed with the props available for Ceasans but considering the player is highly unlikely to have encountered them by the time Corvettes appear, it would still offer visual variety. Opted for more distinctive variations of the walls and floor, too.

[KevinHann]

I could be completely wrong, but I think the submap editor has a memory leak issue somewhere. After using it for a while, especially when I do a lot of loading of things, it kills my computer and I have to hard-reset. I can usually get it to work for several hours before it does this, but if you're using a machine with a relatively small amount of RAM it guess it would result in more frequent crashes.

Yes, I'm afraid that is the case - I was freaking out some part might be going... very scary as getting a new one right now is just not an option.

We can also message on Skype to discuss the improvements you require, really. Whatever is convenient.

Are you really in Bulgaria BTW?

Yes, mate - I'm Bulgarian - curious why you find it interesting - hope it ain't memories of '94 I'll get on Skype, although I will have to organize my thoughts a bit about what changes might be needed so that I don't spam you with requests every now and then. I don't have any experience with adding new designs to the game yet and my knowledge of what is possible and where the obstacles are are kind of limited, I think a more experienced and articulate member like kabill or Skitso might be able to pinpoint them better than me by just looking at the designs. I still can't believe I didn't think if adding a race specific variation of existing UFO would be problematic!

Edited July 7, 2014 by KevinHann

[KevinHann]

Finally, the third Andron Saucer Corvette variation:

[KevinHann]

Okay, off the top of my head, here are a couple of things I'd like to see. I apologize in advance if any of these are already possible to mod in but not utilized yet.

1. Opportunity to add new types/sizes of UFOs, assuming the modder provides the necessary art;

2. Opportunity to assign multiple UFOs of any type to the same squadron, combined with support for two/three crashed UFOs in a single crash site;

3. Opportunity to assign new and existing UFOs to specific races/missions;

4. Option available for Fury to leave behind a crash site (it would be even better if there is a parameter that triggers a crash site so that Fury would annihilate some UFOs but only shoot down others!);

5. Opportunity to add new missions - for the sake of an example let's say Enormous UFO X cannot be shot down, but the player could catch it when landed, the mission could be that part Y needs to be destroyed or part Z needs to be stolen and then the player can retreat, prompting victory screen without having to clear the entire UFO (as that would be too difficult or simply impossible);

6. Assuming 2. and 5. are possible, I'd like to see a "Rescue" mission unlocking at certain ticker value which would spawn when the player shoots down an UFO and attempt to beat the dropship to the crashsite. If it does so, it could create a merged landed/crashed UFO site for specified time, forcing the player to fight both in GC. If the time expires, mission is successful and the crashsite disappears. This might be possible to implement without 2. by just merging the crews in a single crashed UFO submap;

7. Bombers attempting to bomb crashsites to deny tech to the player past certain ticker value;

8. This one is a bit tricky but very important: Let's say I assign a crew of 30 aliens to a UFO. I'd like to be able to break them down to several teams which could perform different tasks, but so that different teams can perform the same task in different areas. For instance team 1 guards area 1 and never leaves it, team 2 guards area 2, team 3 patrols between area 1 and 2, etc. I'm unsure if this works now but it would be nice if these can be painted on blank tiles outside the UFO, thus allowing specific teams to patrol in and out of the UFO and put possible multiple exits UFO layouts to use by flanking your team after you've cleared the general map and entered the UFO thinking your back is safe.

9. I haven't seen any of the anti-psionics armors yet but I presume the mechanic available gives a straight boost to Bravery. Would it be possible to code in something that enables switching a successful Mind Control attempt (or Berserk occurrence) to a simple panic event? It would be pretty important as I intend to use multiple Praetors and I'm not sure even higher Bravery would provide adequate defense against several psi-attacks every turn.

10. Are third-party friendly aliens an option in both GC/Geoscape?

Edited July 7, 2014 by KevinHann

[KevinHann]

I just can't get to sleep

So instead let's try something more complex - a Saucer Landing Ship, with Sebillian flavor. Of course you could object Landing Ships are already saucers so I had to tinker quite a bit with the design to make it different. That or I have a thing for claustrophobic interiors.

There appear to be some flaws with the hull intersections between doors and second floor and I don't know how it would look in the game. Hopefully it won't leak LoS in or out!

[kahvipannu]

Here is some amazing looking ship designs Kevin (That mothership looks sick). Did I get it right, if you guys can execute this, we could get classic ufos which could be breached from walls or roofs, just like any building? That with the more classic ufos would be just amazing.

Also what does the download consist? Is it something one can just throw in game files and try out for feedback, or something for more advanced users?

[Gauddlike]

we could get classic ufos which could be breached from walls or roofs, just like any building?

Probably not through the roof, I don't think that works too well a lot of the time.

A floor tile tends to remain a floor tile even after it is destroyed.

The walls should be breachable though.

[kahvipannu]

Oh right, I didn't even think about that, floor stuff is quite broken atm indeed. Well even just walls would be quite fantastic, and seeing crashed ufos with wall damage in-place would make them so much more unpredictable.

[Chris]

Some nice designs there Kevin, particularly the saucers! Landing ship with the multiple entrances is very cool.

[KevinHann]

Thanks for the kind words!

Also a small update - Saucer Landing Ship second floor for Andron and Ceasan:

[TacticalDragon]

Love the red and green zones of this layouts.

Amaizing!

[KevinHann]

This took much longer than anticipated, but it was time to break away from the predictable pattern. Saucers don't have to be monotone!

Cruiser is the first UFO with multiple exit points the player encounters. Breaching it requires careful tactics not to have some soldiers exposed to crossfire. Since my earlier Saucer UFOs already have multiple exits, I've given some serious thought how to recreate this tension without employing the same techniques over and over again. The end result is likely to bring nightmares to tactically inept players!

Edited July 8, 2014 by KevinHann

[KevinHann]

Small update - the Sebillian version of the Saucer Cruiser 2nd floor.

Note: You will notice the Cruiser datacore isn't present in the Andron version screenshots. This has been fixed after I took them.

[kabill]

@Kevin: I've really enjoyed seeing your designs get better over these posts. The recent ones you've done look really good. (The cruiser especially, actually. I really like the shape of it and the horrible death-trap down the centre as you approach the entrance. The only this missing for me is gun-ports in the level above to allow aliens on the top-deck to shoot down!)

I can't decide whether I like the half-and-half splits with the alien specific sections, mind. Not because I don't like the alien-specific bits, but because I don't like the sharp contrast been those sections and the 'generic' sections. The only solution I can think of for this, though, is turning entire levels into alien-specific bits, which I'm not sure would work either. This said, I don't want to discourage you putting them in. I'm raising it more in case you have any ideas about how the contrast could be reduced.

(Perhaps, as an experiment, you could try redesigning the top deck of one of the cruisers replacing the left hand section with alien-specific equivalents if possible. It will probably be rubbish, but it might be worth an experiment in case it works. Or, alternatively, try just replacing the floor and walls? I don't know. Also, for what it's worth, this is something that bothers me about alien bases, too).

[KevinHann]

Here's the final variation of the Saucer Cruiser 2nd floor - the Ceasan version:

@kabill

First of all thanks for the positive feedback, it means a lot coming from a capable modder like you.

I've been considering giving the aliens a chance to shoot down a deck for the Carrier and Battleship designs to up the difficulty scale even further, thought it's a bit early for Cruisers. I'd be interested to see an example of how you see this design-wise (maybe a quick mock-up of just that element screenshot?)

Yes, I've been thinking about the contrast but I figured I'd go that way to spook the player a bit and give the sense of entering a different, maybe harder area of the UFO, much like colonial marines would walk around a Colony and all of a sudden enter an alien infested section with all that biomechanic stuff on the walls and floor. I don't really have any ideas how to reduce the contrast naturally without giving it priority over the entire design of the level and I'm reluctant to do so.

Is it a big problem for others as well?

[Chris]

To be honest, where possible I'd do an entire floor in the special race-specific tiles. I think it'd look more coherent.

I'll also see if I can get Aaron to do a better tile to go next to the doors so we don't have to live with those "gaps" in the current designs.