Modular UFOs - Discussion and Suggestions

[TacticalDragon]

@.@!

WTF is that?

[Ragnarok]

holy mow. How many aliens does that hold in total if landed ?

[Gauddlike]

I am toying with having either the battleship or dreadnought class ship much smaller but with more weapons and higher rank crew rather than continually increasing their size physical size as the challenge.

Most alien vessels have multiple roles, outside of the interceptors and bombers.

I see it as an alien ship that has the non combat parts left out and is purely focused on military actions.

Most other ships have science sections or space reserved for transporting cargo.

The front line combat vessel doesn't need to bother with this.

[KevinHann]

@.@!

WTF is that?

I'm not sure what you mean, TD? It's a Mothership, I see them as flying cities. It should be big enough if Carriers and Battleships go to them for recharging/supplies.

holy mow. How many aliens does that hold in total if landed ?

I don't know yet - but I'm open for suggestions. How many do you think would be required to present a balanced spread throughout the levels? Bear in mind there will be a third level, although it is significantly smaller than the second one.

I am toying with having either the battleship or dreadnought class ship much smaller but with more weapons and higher rank crew rather than continually increasing their size physical size as the challenge.

Most alien vessels have multiple roles, outside of the interceptors and bombers.

I see it as an alien ship that has the non combat parts left out and is purely focused on military actions.

Most other ships have science sections or space reserved for transporting cargo.

The front line combat vessel doesn't need to bother with this.

Fair enough, it is an interesting concept on its own and I'd be curious to see what you come up with. Although this direction is of little interest for me in my designs as the current game is balanced that way anyway and I'd like to see more enemies rather than just more of the same.

I have to say I went for Dreadnaught (what's the correct spelling on this one, I keep seeing it both ways?) just because the name was already in. I wanted to see a Mothership as a natural high-tier UFO upgrade and merged it with the alien base tiles as I feel they are brilliant and terribly underused in the vanilla game. I take it you don't like the concept? I could really use some additional feedback.

[TacticalDragon]

I'm not sure what you mean, TD? It's a Mothership, I see them as flying cities. It should be big enough if Carriers and Battleships go to them for recharging/supplies.

This is the most amazing UFO layout that I see in xenonauts. @.@

This remind me to the Battleship of original XCOM.

Is awesome!

[KevinHann]

This is the most amazing UFO layout that I see in xenonauts. @.@

This remind me to the Battleship of original XCOM.

Is awesome!

You have experience with adding and balancing new content in the game - I would really appreciate if you expand on your comments as to what would be needed to make it functional. What size of a crew and how many of each alien type would "fill" the submap without leaving large areas exposed like vanilla Carriers are? I am considering scaling down from say 4 Praetors in floor 3. Note I'm assuming the Mothership will go with new Psi-defense armors so Mind Control would not be an issue.

Also do you have any specific comments on the layout? I've done it at one take per floor and don't really have a fresh mind to notice any potential problems (and my bloody resolution doesn't allow me to make it playable so that I could actually test it!)

[Gauddlike]

Fair enough, it is an interesting concept on its own and I'd be curious to see what you come up with. Although this direction is of little interest for me in my designs as the current game is balanced that way anyway and I'd like to see more enemies rather than just more of the same.

I have to say I went for Dreadnaught (what's the correct spelling on this one, I keep seeing it both ways?) just because the name was already in. I wanted to see a Mothership as a natural high-tier UFO upgrade and merged it with the alien base tiles as I feel they are brilliant and terribly underused in the vanilla game. I take it you don't like the concept? I could really use some additional feedback.

Not really sure what you mean by more of the same, it would be a unique layout, just not necessarily simply larger than the one before.

Your concept is OK I just like the idea of more enemies in a smaller space as a challenging mission rather than the challenge always being a bigger ship with a bigger crew.

When you down a big transport ship you know you are likely going to be hunting a few enemies through a lot of space.

I want people to down a battleship and know that they will likely be fighting a lot of enemies closer together instead.

To recreate that feel with a ship design as large as the one you are working on would need an absolutely massive crew, which could be interesting in its own right, but not the sort of mission I was looking at giving.

I am not saying I don't like your concept though, it is a very impressive vessel and could create an interesting mission.

As TD says, it has echoes of the OG battleship which is not a bad thing.

Incidentally the term dreadnought comes from the HMS Dreadnought which was the first ship of the class to be built.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-fornv/uk/uksh-d/drednt9.htm

[KevinHann]

I stand corrected then! Though your comments have made me reconsider the name and since it's sort of original game content it's likely many mappers will offer their take at it. Maybe I'd better just go with the concept name "Mothership" as it translates well in the design.

I didn't mean anything bad by "more of the same", it was my personal opinion of the crew progression as UFOs advanced that they felt more and more like upgrading the alien classes rather than numbers. While the overall number of aliens undoubtedly was higher at each step, it still wasn't enough to compensate for the more spacious interiors. At first glance it's exactly the opposite of what you are suggesting, but in practice the lower number of aliens ended up piling together in a couple of junctions (most notably the command room, of course) which pretty much is exactly what you are looking to add, the major difference consisting of cutting the walking empty space within the vessels.

I should note my experience with massive UFOs in the current version is limited though as I just downed my first Carrier in 1.07 and I'm aware the AI has undergone some tweaks which might make my impressions irrelevant and your concept a refreshing change from the usual flow. Albeit if I'm not missing something it should be pretty much like the Operation Endgame rooms.

Which doesn't make me any less curious to see some images

[TacticalDragon]

@ Well Kevin my good friend Kevin,

In my experience the problem with the AI and the UFOs is that they only one parameters, is kid of difficult that only one poll set of combinations suite each UFO, an example: "Sebillian_Noncommander_Aggressive" will behave as he is in a scout or in a battleship, no parameter of the AI say the unit that he need to take care of nothing. Maybe if the map has some kind of markers like "Retreat area", "Shock point", "Ambush" or something maybe the alien will find logic in the UFO or map construction.

In this order of ideas, if you make a highly intricate interiors you will suffer something like Kabill's Fire in The hole, the aliens will find bad spots. The AI values say to the alien "Go search for a place with HIGH cover, very NARROW and try to dont get too close to other friends", well the aliens lets say "Ok! Each one will go to a different Rooms". When Xenonauts arrive they will find scattered aliens that are easy to kill, just open door, shot and close the door.

If you want to see a nice idea that makes the aliens more reactive in interiors? Take a look of "Door Portholes" that set for XNT, thats make a huge difference, because the aliens even scattered see the xenonauts and run to better position, or set an ambush, or stay using the port hole better.

If you use large spaces into the "Mothership" gun fights can be interesting, if you set places with narrow rooms, be sure to make some kind of addition like Portholes.

If you want to work with UFO interiors you are forced to work on AI too.

[KevinHann]

Yes, TD, I anticipated something like that would be needed. I'll try to tackle it or look for some assistance for those issues when I actually get a functional submap to run some tests with. Looking at the size of those interiors what initial bracket of numbers would you recommend to utilize them properly?

[TacticalDragon]

Yes, TD, I anticipated something like that would be needed. I'll try to tackle it or look for some assistance for those issues when I actually get a functional submap to run some tests with. Looking at the size of those interiors what initial bracket of numbers would you recommend to utilize them properly?

I love the first floor of the UFO, Im only worry about the second floor and the amount of narrow spaces.

If you want to test something, apply portholes and try using defensive and command scripts with sight 0.7, ambush -10 to -20 and shot potential near to -18. That would be enough to make very reactive inside narrow spaces.

[KevinHann]

And in terms of crew size?

[TacticalDragon]

Wao that a tricky question and a problem. I dont know exactly if Aggressive script aliens are excluded outside the UFO layout, the problem is that defensive script and command script is subjected to survavlbility check when the GC is deploy.

If you put a huge crew of aliens maybe can:

- Hang prpcessor calculations

- Long alien turns

I only run a test with 40 noncombatant caesans with XNT spine thrower (They can take down a full squad of wolf armor xenonauts easy). The game run good until 30 to 35 units... but that depends on the machine.

I will try something like 15 defensive aliens in the first plant and 10 in command in the second.

[Skitso]

I'm not a moderator, but to keep this thread at least somewhat clean, you guys should probably move the discussion about dreadnaughts and its crew to a separate thread? You know, it's pretty far away from the modular ufo topic.

[KevinHann]

Alright, I think I'm done. The top third floor of the Mothership is significantly smaller than the previous one as promised but it took - god damn floor tiles - the longest time to complete (and I'm still unhappy with the quality of some walls, it was also the first time I resorted to Layer 2 as some props simply refused to show naturally).

Let's take a peak, floor by floor:

Note: If you click "Open image" or "Open image in new tab", you will be able to see it full size.

It is the first genuine Mothership you encounter, being capable of launching a full squadron of Corvettes. But beware, the Mothership ground floor isn't just a hangar, it's where the Corvette crews reside in their sleeping chambers. They are fully stocked for urgent landing and the multiple exit points allow them to pour out of the UFO and overwhelm any threat. In addition, those exit points can turn into heavy barricades should someone be reckless enough to try and breach them!

The second level of the Mothership consists of three wings, each accessible by the designated hangar from the lower level. The left wing is a research division. It captures living specimen from around the globe for further testing and has a tiny security buffer between the researchers and the "cages" as a precaution against a breakout. The right wing is a pretty straightforward supply depot, similar to a Carrier. The core is race specific - it's the equivalent of the orlop deck of the slave ships. This particular Mothership happens to be Andron. I will re-design it for all three races when the entire layout is finished.

The third and final level of the Mothership is where Praetors reside. The most important props of the UFO are here and you will find one in each room. All three wings pass through a single room before connecting to the command area via corridors.

I literally don't know what to think of the UFO now the basic design is poured out but I'm pretty sure I'll find lots of details that need a polishing touch after I get some sleep. If you spot anything that seems out of place or have a general comment about the design, feel invited to share - this is the time to get picky and I'll take even basic suggestions of the "that chair doesn't belong there" type.

As stated before, I'll need some help getting this to actually work. The least of the issues is I can't set up the teleporters because of my resolution cutting them out, but in fairness I'd appreciate if someone experienced with submaps takes a detailed look for rookie mistakes. That's why I haven't painted the hull yet - it would make it much harder to look at the interiors.

The goal now is to get this to a functional submap so that it can become testable. If anyone is willing to lean a shoulder, stretch a hand or chop a couple'o'fingers it'd be great.

[KevinHann]

Seems I bored the thread to death with that gigantic Mothership, folks I still need your feedback on it.

In the meantime, here's a simple Saucer take on Light Scout:

[TacticalDragon]

Dont give up to mother ship! you have almost all the layout complete!

[kabill]

The Light Scout design you have there is similar to something I was going to try, but I was going to make it a bit bigger (don't know if that's a good thing, though).

In terms of the mothership discussion, I think the problem is simply that there's no point of comparison with it. It looks epic, for sure, but since there's never been anything of that size in the game it's difficult to have any idea as to whether it would work without being able to playtest it.

[KevinHann]

The Light Scout design you have there is similar to something I was going to try, but I was going to make it a bit bigger (don't know if that's a good thing, though).

The initial take was bigger than this but it felt empty and the aliens were going to be sitting ducks inside so I cut the size down. Perhaps you can handle it better than me though!

In terms of the mothership discussion, I think the problem is simply that there's no point of comparison with it. It looks epic, for sure, but since there's never been anything of that size in the game it's difficult to have any idea as to whether it would work without being able to playtest it.

You are absolutely right. I'd love to get it to that stage but the sad reality is I just can't access the necessary functions in the SubmapEditor If anyone wants to help I'll provide the file. Other than what I've already done I can just keep reshaping and polishing the outlook but it's really just beating around the bush.

[Ragnarok]

I would playtest it, but i cant help with getting it actually working ingame.

[kabill]

@Kevin: If you upload it, I can finish of the remaining bits for you at some point (maybe next weekend?)

Of course, there's other stuff that would need sorting out as well (a map to put it on, a crew list, mission listing, UFO stats and weapons).

[KevinHann]

Let's keep the Saucer snowball rolling with Scout:

I could have gone for a different entry point but wanted to use the original 3-tile door for it.

@Kevin: If you upload it, I can finish of the remaining bits for you at some point (maybe next weekend?)

Of course, there's other stuff that would need sorting out as well (a map to put it on, a crew list, mission listing, UFO stats and weapons).

Sure, just give me a wink when you have time, I might do some more work on it before then. Or if you prefer I can upload it now. Yes, there are a number of additional things to cover and I might need a helping hand on those, too

Edited July 6, 2014 by KevinHann

[spacebug]

Let's keep the Saucer snowball rolling with Scout:

That power source right at the entrance might make assaulting it a bit too hard, considering how early you fight your first scouts. Too much risk of blowing it up by accident. Otherwise, looks good.

(I think light scout and scout should both be somewhat friendly for new players, even in a mod. unless its a difficulty mod of course.)

[kabill]

Well, I'm very unlikely to look at it before Saturday next week, so if you get it uploaded at some point before the weekend that would be fine.

EDIT: I'd agree with spacebug about the power source placement. Swapping it with the datacore would probably work though.

[KevinHann]

That power source right at the entrance might make assaulting it a bit too hard, considering how early you fight your first scouts. Too much risk of blowing it up by accident. Otherwise, looks good.

(I think light scout and scout should both be somewhat friendly for new players, even in a mod. unless its a difficulty mod of course.)

I'd agree with spacebug about the power source placement. Swapping it with the datacore would probably work though.

Agreed, my initial thoughts were the same but I thought if the datacore suffered in the shootout it would be more punishing for the player than losing the power source. Changed and images updated.

Well, I'm very unlikely to look at it before Saturday next week, so if you get it uploaded at some point before the weekend that would be fine.

Sure thing!