Max_Caine Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I'm not suggesting it because I fancy my screen filled up with negatives/posivitives - quite the opposite, but even a casual glance at the general forums and the steam forums strongly suggests that there's a lot of people who aren't drawing that link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llunak Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 There are people who aren't drawing many links, and it's a question if there's a point in handholding them for something that's rather obvious if you think about it in a game that requires a certain level of thinking for any good results. Or they could of course read the bloody manual, but that's so last century, nowadays it's much cooler to get confused even by games of the Super Mario Bros complexity (seriously). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 The rage is strong in this one. Too bad he is right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 There's a fine line indeed. On the one hand, this is a thinking man's game, and it's unsurprisingly like a game from the 90s. Reading the manual is pretty much required for anyone who has not played the original. On the other hand, this is not exactly a game with a self-explanatory interface, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 There's a fine line indeed. On the one hand, this is a thinking man's game, and it's unsurprisingly like a game from the 90s. Reading the manual is pretty much required for anyone who has not played the original. On the other hand, this is not exactly a game with a self-explanatory interface, either. Funny thing is, the manual's not even that long. It's what, about 35 pages? Compared with the novels that used to get produced for games back in the '90s it's nothing. (I miss the olden days. The Civilization manual is possibly the longest thing I'd ever read as a nine-year-old.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Yeah, that has also been a large shift, of course. But a manual of such depth is perhaps no longer necessary now - those olden-days manuals would try to cover every detail of the game, while a modern manual will cover things in moderate detail. Sure, Xenonauts could easily have a 150-page manual if it tried to cover all the details. And if you think it was tough to read manuals back then because they were long, well, I was trying to read them with a very rudimentary knowledge of English, and just being able to understand a complete sentence was an accomplishment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Well, if this suggestion is sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters it's no matter to me, I understand how the game works. It's only of import to those who can't make head nor tail of the geoscape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llunak Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 There's a fine line indeed. On the one hand, this is a thinking man's game, and it's unsurprisingly like a game from the 90s. Reading the manual is pretty much required for anyone who has not played the original. On the other hand, this is not exactly a game with a self-explanatory interface, either. Not here. The information that it's specifically UFO events what causes funding drops is unnecessary for gameplay. It is perfectly doable to get by with just "aliens are flying around and I'm not stopping them => funding goes down" (or even "funding goes down, so there must have been aliens doing bad things") and "I stopped aliens from flying around => funding goes up". If somebody is not capable of getting that, they're simply not using their brain, and if this "problem" is solved for them, they'll soon run into another one. Not to mention that the proposed change is problematic. "Warship Sunk:" -$3000" ? This is more of an internal game mechanism, Xenonauts do not get billed for warships sunk, nobody will come at the month end and say "ok, so we lost 2 ships, 3 forrests, 169 people, gained 5 crop circles, that'll be $184,000 less". And I expect some people this was supposed to help would get confused by the fact that they're not losing money immediately or something similar. Yeah, indeed Xenonauts could be like the Firaxis game and have everything no matter how trivial spelled out. But there's only so much time and it'd be better spent on things that do make a difference (like, say, making troop arrangement in transport easier to discover somehow, even though at first it might seem to be exactly the same category like this problem). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Man, and I thought I was cynical! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumangee Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Solver, you doing great job. Can I help somehow? Programming skills applied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 If you have professional C++ experience or a university degree, feel free to send Chris an application for source code access Programming skills applied, сходу различаю предложение человека с родным русским Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumangee Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Programming skills applied, сходу различаю предложение человека с родным русским Спалился Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Ragulin Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Here's another one: The new psionic defence value for armours... <PsionicDefence defence="0" points="0" degradation="0" /> Can we get something similar for items? This way, things like psi-shields, or preferably tin-foil hats, could become an inventory item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentelin Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 To expand on Mikhail comment or increased night vision like night vision sniper scopes or something in that line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 There are some extra complicating factors when you try to do stuff like that with items. One of them being, when is the effect active? Item in hand, in inventory, or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Quick suggestion related to psi protecting armour. Is it possible/desirable for the degradation to be linked to strength of the powers? That would probably mean the psi degradation value being moved from the armour to the individual psi powers if so. For example fear might have degradation 1 while mind control has degradation 3 so it protects against fear attacks 3 times longer than it would against the bigger psi assault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Ragulin Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 There are some extra complicating factors when you try to do stuff like that with items. One of them being, when is the effect active? Item in hand, in inventory, or what? Is it possible to have the effect active when it's in the inventory, or would it be restricted to hand-held use? The former would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Mikhail, yeah, having them in inventory would probably work. But I am not yet ready to go there with items Had certain parts of the code been better, it would have been easier to apply effects generically, no matter whether to armour or items, but that is not the case. Gaud, yeah, that can be done. Even without moving anything out of armour, it could be just multiplied. Set degradation to 1 on the armour, and then some degradationMultiplier to 1 on fear and 3 on mind control. Doable, but I don't know if there is much value in that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Yeah, by the way, you noticed that this now lives in a subforum of its own, which also means you can make threads regarding features Some features end up being a bigger discussion than 2-3 posts, and it's kinda overwhelming and chaotic all in one thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Yeah, by the way, you noticed that this now lives in a subforum of its own, which also means you can make threads regarding features Some features end up being a bigger discussion than 2-3 posts, and it's kinda overwhelming and chaotic all in one thread. Would it be useful at some point to trawl through this thread to compile a list of all the features that have been requested? This might be useful for you/others doing the coding, but also help avoid repeat suggestions (especially if something has been ruled out for whatever reason). (I'm not suggesting you specifically do this, to be clear. I'm just asking whether you think it might be useful. It might be you already have a list like that or something.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Yeah, I also have an issue tracker, but I am pretty sure that some features have been overlooked due to the sheer amount of posts, not to mention that I've also been receiving so many PMs one might think I was offering naked pics of Mila Kunis. So in addition to starting new threads for potentially bigger features, yes, it helps if someone wants to do some other organization Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I might add it to my worklist for next weekend, if no one does it before hand. I might sift through all those messages I sent you as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Doable, but I don't know if there is much value in that I don't really know either to be honest. I just had the thought that it might be nice if being protected from the big powers was kind of a double edged sword. Mind control will break through your defences pretty quickly but fear can bounce off your armour all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inios Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Sorry, here are more details: Xenonauts v1.07 with CE 0.24 installed. No other mods installed. Final mission with all objectives cleared. Save game crashes to desktop after clicking OK on mission briefing. Save game doesn't work on a vanilla Xenonauts install (loads to geoscape instead of ground combat). Could you elaborate, are you using vanilla Xenonauts, X:CE 0.24 or any of them combined with mods? Has anyone experienced a bug where, for the final mission, it just crashes after click 'OK' on the mission briefing screen? Here is my save game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumangee Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Mikhail, yeah, having them in inventory would probably work. But I am not yet ready to go there with items Had certain parts of the code been better, it would have been easier to apply effects generically, no matter whether to armour or items, but that is not the case. There is one more option available, good for weapon upgrades. Make 2(!) variants of 1 weapon, for example: rifle. Player see it in weapon list and can add to inventory. Also, he can find separate item, "night sight scope". Then he drop that item onto slot with weapon, we replace that weapon to "rifle with night scope". Now, soldier will gain night visibility range bonus, but, also a penalty to reaction! This way it is possible to implemet lots of weapons vaiations and not to fill up weapon list. For example: subbarrelled grenade launcher, night scope, laser sight, etc. And weapon maniacs can take "all in one", it will be just about 5-6 kilogramms ))) Yeah, I also have an issue tracker, but I am pretty sure that some features have been overlooked due to the sheer amount of posts... I think it would be a great to pull out that tracker outside, so everybody will be able to see how much work you need to do ))) If your tracker is not a thing you can trust to, maybe better to replace it with something... Edited July 7, 2014 by Jumangee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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