Base Defense

[sectoid]

I have some ideas on this topic.

My mindset is split into two parts:

1 mindset is:

I want to feel scared and sort of powerless because there is a more or less "huge" battleship unloading a huge alien attack force of unknown composition and power right into my precious installation.

i am supporting this idea. if i select the hardest gameplay difficulty, i would expecting invading alien to be outnumbered my soldiers. otherwise if say, 10 invading aliens vs 10 defending soldiers, i will yawn until my jaw drops.... seriously....

[sectoid]

Buildings destroyed in the base defence missions will be destroyed on the Geoscape. This has to be balanced carefully though, else whatever building is closest to the entry point is always going to be destroyed in every mission, which wouldn't be fun.

...

great! hindrance to my plan of spamming bazookas and grenades...

[Thann]

Another possibility would be, that buildings are not destroyed but damaged (depending on the damage they get in the ground combat). They would be repaired over time automatically, but damaged buildings do not work on 100% while damaged (e.g. laboratories->less research, crew quarters->less research/production/morale, hangars->ships cannot start some time, ships are damaged or ships cannot be repaired some time, radar->smaller radius or no radar for some time).

One idea for the base defense would be, that the aliens are not on the ground combat all at once, but they are coming through the entrances over several turns. Then you could also have many more aliens than soldiers, because the soldiers have the advantage of shooting first. The base defense would feel like a siege and you would always think: Is it better to hold position or should i retreat to the other rooms. Perhaps you could have a special defense room that has some cover for the soldiers, should be built near entrances and does not get damaged/destroyed that easy.

Concerning workers/scientists: I would suggest, that either the workers/scientists are evacuated before the attack or they are civilians in ground combat, that try to flee from the aliens (their AI could know the positions of the aliens, that are seen by soldiers because of radio or announcements from command room). Perhaps they should be away from work for one or two hours if they are evacuated.

[Sathra]

Chris did mention something about damaged buildings. Something like only some could be destroyed (radar, containment) with the rest only able to be 'damaged'. Damaged buildings wouldn't function till repaired (no manufacturing/hiring/research).

[aliencrush]

here a mine idees for base combat, but must say that i have not tried one . . . yet

1 i like what "Sathra" says

when doing a base defence it could be cool if the aliens could be able to damage the planes in their hangers and the buildings on the base. So after a base combat the planes and/or buildings need time and money to repair. until they a repaired they are not function

2 Building base defences sound nice. but i am afraid of it could easy bring the game out of balance

3 when doing a base defence it could look like you have been on the hole base, so you know how it look like, this will make sense to me, and a little advantage to you but not out of balance.

[thewatcher]

The fastest way to develop the feature of having base defenses shoot when the UFO approaches, would probably be to hook into the air combat system (as mentioned in the OP). Put the base in the middle (stationary of course) and let the goal of the UFO(s) be to reach it. Then give the player access to weapons on the right-hand bar, like when doing air combat.

So as a player you only have to choose when the weapons should be fired and at what. The problem I see with having less variables (that only one side is moving and has a set destination) is that it might lead to optimal strategies (such as fire one big salvo against large UFOs and fire in volleys against smaller).

Only damaging and not destroying a UFO should still give some benefit, such as slightly less aliens or some being wounded.

I like this idea and its along the lines of what I was getting at.

I really can't see that type of mission being interesting.

It would just be a case of selecting all the weapons, targeting the enemy then clicking fire.

As much as I do prefer to have some control over combat I think in this case it doesn't add anything fun.

So your saying that chasing down aline ships and shooting them down is not fun because thats what GrumpySage and my idea kinda is. The base fires at the alien ship. The alien ship could fire back (knock out your defenses). You have to select what kind of defense to put up just like you have to tell your interceptors how close to get to an alien ship. I think it would be a fun mechanic to add to the game but I fully understand about it being most likely a "luxury item"

[Max_Caine]

Arise thread, from the deeps! Awaken and hearken to your master. Shake off the dust of age, and come forth from the haunted tombs of threads long forgotten!

With the game now into beta candidate 2, it's too late to change things about base defence missions. There is going to be no minigame. Accept this and move on.

[Gauddlike]

So your saying that chasing down aline ships and shooting them down is not fun because thats what GrumpySage and my idea kinda is. The base fires at the alien ship. The alien ship could fire back (knock out your defenses). You have to select what kind of defense to put up just like you have to tell your interceptors how close to get to an alien ship. I think it would be a fun mechanic to add to the game but I fully understand about it being most likely a "luxury item"

No chasing and shooting down the alien ships isn't really a great deal of fun for me a lot of the time.

Removing the movement and positioning aspect to sit the base in the middle would make it less so.

If the enemy just had to fly over and land then it would also be over very quickly either way.

It would have no difference in effect over rolling some dice behind the scenes and wouldn't add any real gameplay benefits for me.

In that situation I would always go for the simple option.

Have to point out though that I don't really like the air combat as it is implemented so that is likely to just be my own bias speaking

I was also involved in the original discussion on the previous forum and couldn't really develop it to a point where it felt fun.

Think I even made a mockup of how it could look with little turrets and stuff...

[StellarRat]

Forcing the aliens to blow the doors would be kind of cool. Although, it probably wouldn't slow them down too much. If I get to place my soldiers ahead of the battle the aliens better bring A LOT of troops because they are going to get slaughtered. It will be a purple bloodbath for them. MAWAHHAHA! I definitely think the Xenonaut facilities should suffer damage if fighting takes place inside. That will make people think twice before using a lot of explosives.

[thothkins]

"Your unarmed Chinook has been shot down by the Alien Base Defences" why don't the aliens bother to defend themselves?

Anyway, a concern here is that it's a Base Defence mission. You're only having it because you got spotted and your defences failed. Having a mini game where people could feasibly reduce the attacking aliens to a handful, wouldn't look great. I guess you'd have a point where the damaged alien craft just retreats.

Question: If you shoot down a UFO that attacks your base, do you get the alloys and elerium for it, as it's just sitting at your front door?

[StellarRat]

Question: If you shoot down a UFO that attacks your base, do you get the alloys and elerium for it, as it's just sitting at your front door?

No, but I heard Sibellan tastes a lot like chicken.

[GizmoGomez]

I support the damage to base facilities idea. If, say, 25% of the tiles/props/whatever are destroyed, then it'll take 10% of the original build time to restore it to functionality. If it takes 50% damage, then 20% of the build time.

Numbers are probably off, but the idea seems sound, and fairly simple too.

[Sathra]

Getting the loot from the ship sounds like a good idea, but up to Chris really. You'd get some alenium from their clips and grenades though.

[thothkins]

I noticed last build that there was a ship that appears at a terror site, as if it;s just dropping the troops off. Perhaps a base attack should be like that. It doesn't land. It just drops off the forces, having evaded the defences, and will leave if things go wrong.

I thought that the facilities-broke-when damaged-enough thing was something that was considered likely to make it. If not decided, then I'm all for it, in that I try so hard not to damage anything in a base defence mission.

[Max_Caine]

I collected all the information known about base defence mission a while ago. I think this would be very helpful to people currently chatting about things like destroyed modules.

[Mandrake109]

Were you in turn based combat because in real time the base defences were so effective my troops never fired a shot because of the stations

Edited June 24, 2013 by Mandrake109

[Mandrake109]

One thing I found odd is the lack of security cameras in the base because a top secret base in charge of repelling an alien invasion and no one thought to put up security cameras? Makes no sence but it would make base defence less find and kill also i did not feel like the aliens were trying to get to the control center they just shot at bulkheads a lot.

[Grazgul]

Security camera vision is a pretty cool idea. I wouldn't mind seeing it tied to a module in the control center. Aliens destroying the camera's would be great.

A few more ideas that wouldn't be bad for a base assault. Can someone advise me on the doable-ness of them?

1. Modules spawn civilians of their type => scientists, engineers ect. These being killed would lower the count of a relative field.

2.Being able to purchase security forces from the employee tab.

They can spawn as two types:

Security guards - these in particular they should be protective of civilians in terms of spawns and behavior. (they aren't there to take on the invasion force, they are there to protect the human resources!)

Base Defense - Typical local forces behaviours but more armed and wearing combat armour (eg Spare Armour and weapons from the armoury)

3. Assigning troops to 'local guard' - This is a way to increase your squad size, without increasing it.

Soldiers would come in as local forces, with their gear and stats. They wouldn't be controllable, but they would assist.

[GizmoGomez]

The "civilian" technicians and scientists sounds like a cool idea, provided there are the proper sprites for them.

As for hiring people, or having local forces style people in the base, I say no go. I'd much rather have only my own guys in there.

Besides, it's a part of the game that you need to defend your own base.

[green slime]

For Base Attacks, I'd like to see;

Civilian protection a priority (The Engineers / Scientists in the base should be present on the battlefield, losing them should reduce their count)

Base defences beyond just interceptors; the ability to purchase anti-UFO missiles, Cameoflage -> later ghosting, the base. The base should also be defended by other, friendly forces.

As previously suggested; a purpose to the alien mission; base destruction, liberation of aliens, capture of research. The composition and size of the invading force would vary with the purpose, which in turn varies with how far the plot had advanced.

Various forms of Security Cameras (both mobile and stationary), microphones, and sundry information systems, which of course the aliens have methods to circumvent (Ghosting, EMP disruption, etc).

Given the expected level of tech, the aliens could actually have knowledge of the entire map; via insect-sized (invisible in the game) probes. Later tech could descover and produce a countermeasure, reducing alien effectiveness in Base ionvasions.

[Sathra]

There are anti-UFO missiles, its a room you can add to a base. They get automatically upgraded with certain tech to Laser/Plasma/etc Cannons.

Having Scientists and Engineers wouldn't actually add much. They're just numbers, and are likely to block doors with their silly movement. Replacing them would just be a chore of ordering new ones and waiting 3 days.

Apoc had it due to the scientists and engineers being unique. They each had a 'work-rate' stat so losing them could effect your research noticeably.

[green slime]

There are anti-UFO missiles, its a room you can add to a base. They get automatically upgraded with certain tech to Laser/Plasma/etc Cannons.

Having Scientists and Engineers wouldn't actually add much. They're just numbers, and are likely to block doors with their silly movement. Replacing them would just be a chore of ordering new ones and waiting 3 days.

Apoc had it due to the scientists and engineers being unique. They each had a 'work-rate' stat so losing them could effect your research noticeably.

Ah cool. I'll just have to get over this hump at work, then I can get stuck in!

[Mandrake109]

Quick question. You can salvage clips for alenium but why cant you break down their weapons for alloys? What I mean is why cant you have the choice toe sell them or salvage them.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Mandrake109

[Mandrake109]

There is also the problem of who cares if you knock out the life support in the ship. It's landing in the next few minutes, and all the aliens will disembark then. Same goes for weapons, and shields, etc. The simpler option of damage = dead aliens is much easier to grasp

Well the command crew will get the point when they break atmo.

[Sathra]

The newest version of my mod allows you to break down alien weapons for alloys and a bunch of other stuff. The various other stuff is used to make your own weapons.