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V22 Experimental 6 Released!


Chris
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Gotta agree with kabill. I can understand the reveal in alien bases when command center is captured or in base defence missions if there are units camping in command center using the surveillance cameras. Terror sites... well maybe if a pop up like kabill suggested above is used. I'd also prefer this to be toggleable or at least somehow dynamic. (More than 3 turns gone without alien contact while less than 3 aliens left)

Edited by Skitso
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I hate to say it, but day 1 Corvettes are definitely not a very fun addition to the game. I know we're aiming for a "fighting a losing battle against a vastly superior alien horde" atmosphere, but having ships you don't actually have enough firepower to shoot down appear on day 1 would be a terrible introduction for a new player.

Could we at least hold off on the Corvettes for the first week, to give the player time to research Foxtrots at least?

And I'd also like to add myself to the list of people asking for the auto-reveal thing to be an option you can turn on and off in the menu at least. I understand the idea behind the feature is to streamline gameplay, but a lot of this game's target audience are going to want to be able to turn it off for an "authentic" experience.

Edited by Troublechuter
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I'd also prefer this to be toggleable or at least somehow dynamic. (More than 3 turns gone without alien contact while less than 3 aliens left)

That's a good idea actually. Though I'd imagine peeps would learn to abuse it. Maybe it should also be affected by how far away a group of soldiers are from the transport.

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As I've said, I'm not going to change anything about the auto-reveal feature until it's actually in the game and people have had the chance to try it. I think in reality it's going to be less obtrusive than many of you think.

I'm also starting to have second thoughts on day 1 Corvettes. I think I might delay them for a couple of weeks / UFO waves, so the Foxtrot has at least been researched before they arrive. It can indeed be a bit overwhelming when literally your first UFO is a Corvette.

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Could the 'reveal' be worked more organically into the game as I think it suddenly magically happening spoils the immersion a little bit?

Ie link it to technology tree. Such as a battlefield drone you can build and take on terror missions that sweeps/scans the area but takes between 12-15 turns to work (so you get to choose if you build it/activate it).

Or once you exit the landing ship the captain of the ship could be asked to do a sweep of the area to try and spot aliens for you (again this would take 12-15 turns). But in those 10 turns you can't escape of course so there is some risk to the strategy.

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^Chris

Yep. Encountered a Corvette as my first UFO. My condors limped home from that encounter. They won, but it was probably a hollow victory considering the repair time. Heh.

Have yet to send my fresh faced recruits down to it. Looking forward to that. ;)

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My worry about the day 1 corvettes is that the game ticker is set up for progressive roll out, with corvettes rampaging around the map unchallenged the ticker has the potential to advance way too fast early on setting us up for a rough time.

The ticker doesn't go up for anything other than time any more, I don't think. So it shouldn't be an issue.

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I'll throw in my word against day one corvettes as well. In my first game on v22 b6, the first two waves consisted of nothing but corvettes, and I was unable to shoot down a single one of them (not good at air combat, and didn't want to risk 25% autoresolve).

I'd tie UFO progression during the first month to certain conditions; at first, the aliens send some light scouts, and if you shoot down 2-3 of them, regular scouts are deployed. Once they've lost a few, they begin sending in fighters to protect them, and if you do really well against those, corvettes will start to appear toward the end of the month.

Edited by TasothCommander
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At least three weeks:

week 1: light scouts

week 2: light scouts + fighters

week 3: light scouts + fighters + scouts

Week 4: light scouts + fighters + scouts + corvettes

I'd prefer even longer. If you ask me, the old pace was fine until scouts. There was just a bit too long wait until corvettes started appearing so I'd probably just push them ~2-3 weeks earlier. Adding those fighters is all good!

Edited by Skitso
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Skitso, I remember your friend who said:

He felt the game didn't progress that well at the beginning and forced him to play "pretty samey" missions too many times. I kinda agree with this: The light scout/scout -phase drags on too long and the ground missions feel dull as there are so few aliens roaming about the map.

Wouldn't having only light scouts for 2 weeks (roughly 2 waves), then if the RNG frowns having mostly light scouts for the best part of a month be super boring for your friend?

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Yeah, maybe you are right... but on average this pace should be a notable improvement vs. the old. How exactly were the ufo spawns spread earlier?

EDIT: And as you see in my old quote, the main problem was light scout/ scout phase that dragged so pushing corvette a bit earlier should do the trick so the game doesn't feel stuck.

Edited by Skitso
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It completely messes up the tech progression (and therefore game balance), for one. It also eliminates the sense of progression - this is new alien, new rank, new weapon! - a lot unless developer is willing to speed up the game a lot.

I mean, psion and the officer from the very beginning...? Not withstanding Reaper and Androns which are supposed to be mid-game threats instead of late-early game... I think having Corvette appear at second month (~30 days) is probably the best.

Edited by ventuswings
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@Skitso. Looking at the v21 files, the earliest corvettes could turn up was when the ticker hit 200. Which is... 0.1389 ticks per game hour, 3.336 ticks per game day, which is about 60 game days, yowza that's a lot! The problem is with the RNG deciding "light scout day!" Would it not be better to phase out the "training wheels" light scouts early on, leaving the Scouts?

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@Skitso. Looking at the v21 files, the earliest corvettes could turn up was when the ticker hit 200. Which is... 0.1389 ticks per game hour, 3.336 ticks per game day, which is about 60 game days, yowza that's a lot! The problem is with the RNG deciding "light scout day!" Would it not be better to phase out the "training wheels" light scouts early on, leaving the Scouts?

Could that not happen in month 2? At the moment, it's not impossible to go the entirety of the first couple of weeks and not get a chance to intercept a UFO at all. If you phase out Light Scouts too early, you might never actually even see one.

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I think it is just a fundamental of the game that it needs a slow start, without a slow start there is no progression.

To jump in at what used to be the end of the second month is like saying an RTS would be better if each game started with a base and unit production already sorted out for the player.

This kind of game is all about the escalation and the slow sinking feeling.

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