Higher weapon accuracy test

[lightgemini]

You get +15 for each tile closer than 5.

If target is:

5 tiles away = +15

4 tiles away = +30

3 tiles away = +45

2 tiles away = +60

1 tile away = +75

Beware breaching an UFO and ending turn close to an alien!

Edited August 1, 2013 by lightgemini

[Mytheos]

Thanks Max and lightgemini

[Aaron]

I can't recall exactly, but I think "short range" is about 8 tiles. It's hard coded at the moment, but I'd like to change that.

EDIT: Or maybe I should read and it is 5 as above

Edited August 2, 2013 by Aaron

[lightgemini]

Im a bit late to make a proposal for an accuracy revision since it has made into the beta, but Im posting the settings I have been developing this days as its a bit different from what theres is in last beta.

First I will explain what means the diferent aim levels for this settings. Know that I have been thinking in this to be "balanced" for both noob and veteran soldiers.

S1 --- This represents a quick reaction shot, were theres little to no care in aiming. Typical of going around a corner and finding a reaper or a plasma rifle pointing at you colse quarters with no time to aim properly and retreat.

S2 -- This is an average shot, were care for aiming is taken but not too much time is spent in it. This is the kind of aiming a soldier does when trying to fire more than 1 shot in the same turn to the same or multiple targets. This is also the main aim level for veterans who have high accu. skill and can get reliable hits with this level and fire 2 or 3 shots in the same turn.

S3 -- This is the most accurate aim level, were the soldier is using all the time he needs to adjust the sight, lead aim and wait for the perfect moment to fire with the highest accuracy possible. Its easily the main aim level for noobs who will score reliable but are too inexperienced to shoot effectively in the S2 level. Its very time consuming and is meant to be used by a crouched soldier already in fire position.

Burst -- this is not taken as just a spray&pray mode, but a serious attempt to be accurate while shooting in auto mode, compensating the guns recoil and leading aim as best as possible. Its not as accurate as a single controled shot but its not a fire "blind" mode. This is to be taken as a serious alternative to normal aim levels. Although in ballistics its not very effective in energy weapons that have little to no recoil this mode is king. Laser weps are the best example of this as are a point and shoot guns with nothing deviating the shot such as gravity or wind, and have no recoil that needs compensating in burst fire mode.

The TUs usage in the aim levels is not always lineal. This hopefully encourages using the right aim for the right job rather using the best aim your TUs can buy at a given moment. While firing an S3 to a target in the open to ensure a "fail proof" shot can be a good decision, using that S3 shot in a target behind cover or behind smoke could not be worth the cost in TUs for the hit % you get.

Now the wep stats.

Ballistic.

[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]

[tr]

[td]Rifle[/td]

[td]Aim levels[/td]

[td]Hit % 60skill[/td]

[td]Hit % 60skill,crouch[/td]

[td]Hit % 80skill[/td]

[td]Hit % 80skill,crouched[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]S1[/td]

[td] Ap=20 Accu=40[/td]

[td]24[/td]

[td]28[/td]

[td]32[/td]

[td]36[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]S2[/td]

[td] Ap=30 Accu=80[/td]

[td]48[/td]

[td]57[/td]

[td]64[/td]

[td]72[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]S3[/td]

[td] Ap=50 Accu=110[/td]

[td]66[/td]

[td]79[/td]

[td]88[/td]

[td]95[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Burst[/td]

[td] Ap=40 Accu=30[/td]

[td]18[/td]

[td]21[/td]

[td]24[/td]

[td]27[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]

[tr]

[td]Sniper[/td]

[td]Aim levels[/td]

[td]Hit % 60skill[/td]

[td]Hit % 60skill,crouch[/td]

[td]Hit % 80skill[/td]

[td]Hit % 80skill,crouched[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]S1[/td]

[td] Ap=20 Accu=40[/td]

[td]24[/td]

[td]28[/td]

[td]32[/td]

[td]36[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]S2[/td]

[td] Ap=40 Accu=90[/td]

[td]54[/td]

[td]64[/td]

[td]72[/td]

[td]81[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]S3[/td]

[td] Ap=60 Accu=150[/td]

[td]90[/td]

[td]95[/td]

[td]95[/td]

[td]95[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

Note: S2 is not great at all for a sniper to discourage it replacing rifles. It either is used to snipe or like a rifle, but its not going to perform much better at it.

[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]

[tr]

[td]Rockets[/td]

[td]Aim levels[/td]

[td]Hit % 60skill[/td]

[td]Hit % 60skill,crouch[/td]

[td]Hit % 80skill[/td]

[td]Hit % 80skill,crouched[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]S1[/td]

[td] Ap=30 Accu=70[/td]

[td]42[/td]

[td]49[/td]

[td]56[/td]

[td]63[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]S2[/td]

[td] Ap=40 Accu=110[/td]

[td]66[/td]

[td]77[/td]

[td]88[/td]

[td]95[/td]

[td][/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

Note: Range=15. At shorter range it has decent accu, but at rifle range accu drops like a stone. This somewhat replicates real hit % of a RPG-7 of the cold war were hit % droped greatly beyond 150m wich is more than half the range a rifle firefight could usually take place when not using scopes.

Its taking ages to post this so im taking a break before posting Laser and Plasma tables. Anyone thinks all this makes sense?

Edited August 3, 2013 by lightgemini

[yunthi]

i just missed 3 turns with a machinegun, 2 bursts / turn 5 squares range (after which the alien killed the poor bastard) i do get that you cannot have a proper realistic accuracy on the guns with such small maps as they would hit across the field with relatively fair chanse

all finnish males must serve for at least 6 months, i did 9

in reality, 300 meters for an assault rifle you hit roughly in the area of your palm with relative ease, and for example i got 12 hits out of 15 to 3 sec turn with no pre aim. point down - > target turns - > aim -> fire (snap?)

for a machine gun the effective range is around 1km, where you can relatively easily aim since you see the point where you hit and can correct your aim accordingly.

these soldiers seem rediculously blind for an elite force

[StellarRat]

i just missed 3 turns with a machinegun, 2 bursts / turn 5 squares range (after which the alien killed the poor bastard) i do get that you cannot have a proper realistic accuracy on the guns with such small maps as they would hit across the field with relatively fair chanse

all finnish males must serve for at least 6 months, i did 9

in reality, 300 meters for an assault rifle you hit roughly in the area of your palm with relative ease, and for example i got 12 hits out of 15 to 3 sec turn with no pre aim. point down - > target turns - > aim -> fire (snap?)

for a machine gun the effective range is around 1km, where you can relatively easily aim since you see the point where you hit and can correct your aim accordingly.

these soldiers seem rediculously blind for an elite force

You actually found the reason yourself, "i do get that you cannot have a proper realistic accuracy on the guns with such small maps as they would hit across the field with relatively fair chanse" that's exactly why the accuracy looks so low. If it was not that way every shot except pistols would have a 100% to hit and there would be no range difference between most weapons. To make maps the correct size for spotting and weapons accuracy to match real life is impossible with the current level of detail. They would require gigabytes of storage and your PC probably couldn't handle them in memory. Edited September 27, 2013 by StellarRat

[Elydo]

[Queamin]

Haha love it but so true.

[StellarRat]

I can sense the anger rising in you young Skywalker!

[Elydo]

Heh, the Emperor wouldn't be able to sense the anger rising in me...

Besides, I wouldn't be a crapass Jedi. Republic Commando all the way : P

Am I the only person who would find someone arguing philosophy with a Jedi Master and deconstructing his fallacies highly amusing?

[TrashMan]

Heh, the Emperor wouldn't be able to sense the anger rising in me...

Besides, I wouldn't be a crapass Jedi. Republic Commando all the way : P

Am I the only person who would find someone arguing philosophy with a Jedi Master and deconstructing his fallacies highly amusing?

No.

And yes to commandos.

Jedi hunter players FTW

[yunthi]

ye as said i do get it, but the thing is, most of the time a squad of 6 troopers + a vehicle with full aps can not kill 1 alion thats not in cover in one turn. unless you use grenades or other explosives, and thats talking normal difficulty, im not bothering with the hard difficulty can only imagine the frustration there if the aliens are any harder to kill. and the reason for that is that the elite troopers cant hit a barn wall while inside one.

other than that twigs stop a bullet (not sure about the 5.56 im sure the penetration is lower but for example a 7.62 caliber bullet will pierce roughly 1cm of steel, 15 cm of stone, 40 cm of wood if i remember correctly, some brambles or a fence will not affect the bullet in any way shape or form, (the wood i have seen the piercing personally, i did drop a target behind a trunk roughly 40 cm in diameter, just aimed square in the middle of it so that the bullet wouldnt deflect to either side. one of em hit detecting turning ones. got both praise and yelling for it since we're not supposed to damage trees in private property, the army has to pay the landowner for every one of em )

while this does sound sortof harsh i do love the game, just askin for some slight tuning towards realism, atm it is quite frustrating.

[GizmoGomez]

No.

And yes to commandos.

Jedi hunter players FTW

Best video ever. So hilarious.

[Ol' Stinky]

ye as said i do get it, but the thing is, most of the time a squad of 6 troopers + a vehicle with full aps can not kill 1 alion thats not in cover in one turn. unless you use grenades or other explosives, and thats talking normal difficulty, im not bothering with the hard difficulty can only imagine the frustration there if the aliens are any harder to kill. and the reason for that is that the elite troopers cant hit a barn wall while inside one.

other than that twigs stop a bullet (not sure about the 5.56 im sure the penetration is lower but for example a 7.62 caliber bullet will pierce roughly 1cm of steel, 15 cm of stone, 40 cm of wood if i remember correctly, some brambles or a fence will not affect the bullet in any way shape or form, (the wood i have seen the piercing personally, i did drop a target behind a trunk roughly 40 cm in diameter, just aimed square in the middle of it so that the bullet wouldnt deflect to either side. one of em hit detecting turning ones. got both praise and yelling for it since we're not supposed to damage trees in private property, the army has to pay the landowner for every one of em )

while this does sound sortof harsh i do love the game, just askin for some slight tuning towards realism, atm it is quite frustrating.

A rule of thumb in the game is that at the beginning, burst fire is for suppression, while normal and aimed shot are for killing. (Only use snap shot with sniper rifles for the suppression, and try not to rely on reaction fire.)

You can reliably take down an alien that's out of cover in one turn, but it'll be the assault/sniper rifle guys who'll get the kill, not the LMGer.

Bad luck does happen, of course, but that's why you pack smoke grenades.

[EisenKreutzer]

You can reliably take down an alien that's out of cover in one turn' date=' but it'll be the assault/sniper rifle guys who'll get the kill, not the LMGer. [/quote']

Funny thing, my LMGers get plenty of kills on aliens both in and out of cover. Thats why I use two of them for every mission.

[Ol' Stinky]

Funny thing, my LMGers get plenty of kills on aliens both in and out of cover. Thats why I use two of them for every mission.

I feel like I have bad luck with my LMG guys early on. Once I have guys with better stats they do better, and I'll take a couple LMGs along. LMGs certainly aren't bad, but I prefer having more accurate shots, even if it is at the cost of some killing power.

[GlyphGryph]

I cannot get this to work. Adding the file just means crash to desktop every time I enter a battle. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

Edit: Nevermind, redownloading worked.

Edited September 29, 2013 by GlyphGryph

[Ol' Stinky]

I cannot get this to work. Adding the file just means crash to desktop every time I enter a battle. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

Edit: Nevermind, redownloading worked.

Yunthi bumped this thread after it was out of date - he's finding soldiers to be too inaccurate even after the accuracy increase. It used to be a lot worse. Don't use the test, it was eventually fine-tuned and a better version used for v19 stable.

[zolobolo]

I will try this modification, since I also feel the accurac might needs some improvement. And by that I mean the accuracy of rifles and precision guns. They have been practically useless in my last game which - after a brief but glorious strugle - ended with androns invading my rookie filled base while the troops were out hunting. Now I did have a dozen soldiers and a tank, but almost all of them had rifles and little experience. I have tried to win the battle with save cheat but it was virtually impossibel. The damage and accuracy of the rifle is so low + rookies can hardly move and fire the weapon so I gave up.

My elite squad used shotguns, pistols with shields and rockets only

[GizmoGomez]

Don't try the modification. It's old and out of date.

[yunthi]

actually found a workaround for the aiming on lmg, if you try to aim at the alien the dude tends to shoot at the square in front of their feet, if you aim behind the mob he will hit alot better (at 5 squares range, mine got roughly 2-3 hits this way). the dudes just too dumb to set his sights properly for the correct range.

the spread feels more realistic that way too, still wont help at long range but fixes missin the alien in your face to a even ingame accuracy, realistic proportions.

(as in if you aim at a square roughly a block away the spread will be around 3-5 squares, but closeup they all go thu the same square, all of the bullets wont hit the target but atleast some of em do.)

edit: ow, ye i think a shotgun will still beat the machinegun up close so doin it this way isn't imbalanced and gamebreaking, feels more like a fix than an exploit

Edited September 29, 2013 by yunthi

[Aaron]

I am going to lock this thread as the discussion for most of it is now very out of date, and it is confusing people. If you want to discuss accuracy issues in the current version the ground combat balance thread at the top of this forum is the place to do so.