svidangel Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I was under the impression that the Charlie range had been made unlimited, but there is currently an alien base that I cannot get to, as my charlie runs out of fuel first.... I miss something there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I think it's supposed to be, but I disagree completely with that decision. It partly eliminates the need for more than one base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Well, since the funding nations are supposed to be the most important source of funding, we shouldn't kill a players relations simply because the game randomly decided to pick city A instead of city B to attack first. Heck it could even be the first two, three, or even more terror missions, depending on luck. I mean, how long would it take to a) get the funds for a new base b) build a hanger, storage, and a living quarters, c) buy a chinook and hire soldiers, d) train them to be capable of dealing with a terror mission, e) equip them properly to deal with the current level of alien threat? That would take a long time, and in that time several terror missions could have come up and been nuked simply because the gas tank was too small. For the sake of balance and playability it makes sense to have the chinook have global range. However, this does not eliminate, or even reduce, really, the need for other bases. You need radar bases to cover the areas not covered by your initial base, and you need interceptors at those other bases to deal with aliens. This is the bare minimum to keep the funding nations from revolting and revoking your funding, which should be a major blow, especially since the main portion of your money is supposed to be from the nations. On top of the basic radar and interceptor needs, you should also have extra troops and dropships there to deal with local threats, so that the chinook doesn't have to literally fly around the world for a simple crash site, terror mission, or whatever. You should probably have workshops and labs to more evenly distribute the workload, and to provide for your troops/build your interceptors there. There are a myriad of reasons to have 2+ bases, and there are some very good reasons (imho) for having a global chinook range. I don't see the two conflicting (provided the player plays it smart and actually pays attention to the game instead of assuming he'll unlock satellites as part of the next tier up.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybrbeast Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Why not have two ranges for the Chinook? One range is where it is able to fly back to base again after a mission, and if you go beyond that range for a terror mission you would have the Chinook grounded for a day because the logistics of getting new airplane fuel to the middle of a recent terror zone would take a while. You could also increase the flight time to the terror mission because the Chinook has to stop along the way for refueling. This could have a nice implication that you have no option of waiting for the daylight to reach the terror site as you must scramble immediately to get there in time. You could also have the range of interceptors and the Chinook be extended by giving them the option of landing at friendly military bases along the way. This could also add a nice mechanic where you have to defend friendly military bases or risk losing the extra range they give you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meepichi Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I'm fine with global range or as it is now, but what would be nice is knowing if you could make it to the destination or not. My base is stationed in Europe and I had a terror mission in California I think and my Chinook ran out of gas just short of the destination.. I wouldn't have tried it if I knew I couldn't make it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 It's almost worldwide, providing you set your base up in the middle of the geoscape. There has been a strong call for a worldwide dropship, so Chris kept adding fuel to the tanks. I think he needs to add twice as much as there is in it at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svidangel Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Honestly, I would be fine (well, meh) with a much shorter chinook range if, for things like terror missions and alien bases we could use alternative transports. Based on the distance, calculate a time, and the chinook just shows up at the target point. Maybe it refuels on an aircraft carrier, but basically I'd be fine with a "stuff happens, time passes, troops show up at the important site" cutout. Pretty sure this was suggested before, but right now its a pain in the ass to transfer all the soldiers and equipment to the new base and then go to the alien base, and completely unworkable for terror sites due to the duration. Really glad this game wasn't on iron man, or that would have wrecked me. If it was intended that the chinook have global range, well, it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Yeah I am not convinced on global range but the current setting of almost but not quite global range is worse. Either have shorter range and work from there or global range. Allowing the Chinook to reach almost everywhere leaves just enough space you cannot cover to be frustrating when something happens in it. Try and place your base so the blank spot is over the ocean, at least the land masses are covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepMachine Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 I'm fine with global range or as it is now, but what would be nice is knowing if you could make it to the destination or not. My base is stationed in Europe and I had a terror mission in California I think and my Chinook ran out of gas just short of the destination.. I wouldn't have tried it if I knew I couldn't make it! Look in the ETA column in the intercept window. If it doesn't specify an ETA, then you cannot reach it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashman Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 The Charlie range is frustrating so i stuck it up from 35000 to 80,000 on the fuel, however it then takes forever to refuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I already proposed that a team WITHOUT A VEHICLE should be deployable anywhere as they can go in by parachute from MANY type of aircraft including much fast long range jets. Really we ought to at least one more transport option at game start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andeerz Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I would love for this to at least be moddable. Having the Charlie is a cool concept, but I could think of much better contemporary ways to deploy troops, like parachuting from faster aircraft and the like. It would be cool to be able to send a jet or Hercules or something for rapid response at the expense of longer delay for getting troops back and not being able to evac (at least not without a Charlie nearby?). I dunno. BTW, StellarRat, where did you propose this before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 You could actually mod a paradrop right now in without that much difficulty. The human spawn point doesn't need to look like the geoscape vehicle, so it's entirely possible to have what looks like a super zippy aircraft in the geoscape, and an open "paradrop site" submap with tile art indicating that soliders just paradropped here (such as images of of parasilk lying on the floor, hanging on tree, etc). However, you'd need to produce the submap for a paradrop site, and would have to mod every map so it could accomodate the paradrop submap. However, once you went back to the geoscape, it would revert to the super zippy aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I put forward an idea a while back that the Chinook was the big heavy lifter that would allow a full team plus vehicle to be deployed and that a second dropship that was smaller, faster, and longer range could be used to reach the distant terror sites. At the time I think I proposed a Gulfstream C-20 or similar aircraft with parachute deployment. I didn't really think far enough ahead to work out how they would get back on it after the mission though It also wasn't too popular. People seemed to think that there would be no reason to ever use both so why bother having two options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andeerz Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I like your idea, Gauddlike. I can see what people mean by there being no reason to ever use both, but if I had my way, radar ranges and prices and ranges of everything would be lowered somewhat which would make for more interesting geoscape gameplay in my opinion. And having a long range aircraft for missions outside of the chinook range with the tradeoff of not being able to take a vehicle would be useful in such a modded situation. Even as the game is now, I could see both being useful if there is are terror missions that are too far away for the chinook. As for them getting back on after a paradrop mission... I wouldn't be against a one or two day long delay in getting the soldiers back without the need of the plane, but they could just get back on the plane after an hour long delay or something. The C-20 could just land nearby and the local government could implicitly arrange for a helicopter pickup following a successful mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 It was the hitch hiking I objected to. The lovely array of vehicles in Apocalypse makes me a big fan of having multiple transport methods. For example, in a world where each funding nation has there own Xenonaut facility, there could be access to a small team transported by Black Helicopters. Intelligence missions would be driven to by Men In Black and the Chinook used for the serious combat missions from a designated site in fewer nations. But that's not this game If para dropping, would there be a percentage chance for injuries arriving at the site. Or "Sgt thothkins has blown off course. He will not be available for this mission, but can be picked up at the pub on the way back (again)." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashman Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 can be picked up at the pub on the way back (again)." A man who can endure the pain of 2 broken legs for a cold pint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 must...get...to...ale...festival... must..also...stop..watching...star...trek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andeerz Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 If para dropping, would there be a percentage chance for injuries arriving at the site. Or "Sgt thothkins has blown off course. He will not be available for this mission, but can be picked up at the pub on the way back (again)." I think the chance for injury for paradropping should be really low. These are highly trained individuals who will know what they are doing (then again, I don't really know how risky low altitude deployment is). As for chance of being blown off course... The way I would envision it, all troops would land a short ways away from the actual combat zone and will have landed close to each other anyway. We would be talking really low altitude parachute deployment here, like 100m, so being blown off course probably wouldn't be a huge issue, I'd imagine. Then again, I have very little knowledge on how this stuff operates in real life other than what I've read on Wikipedia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svidangel Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 Actually that would be somewhat reminiscent of the bases in the original XCOM where you could end up with very uneven splits of your troops showing up in different sections of the alien base. Half the fun was linking up your squads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andeerz Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) Looking at some youtube videos on the matter, it doesn't seem like low altitude parachute deployment leads to troops being that spread out. It would make sense for the troops to start off together regardless of the kind of (hypothetical) dropship used. EDIT: Actually, after further reading... if parachuting were ever to be used by Xenonauts, it would likely be High Altitude Low Opening parachuting (HALO), as it is quite stealthy and can work in just about any weather condition. The biggest risk would be to the aircraft the troops are dropped from, as it would still be detectable by radar... but the kinds of risks associated with this are beyond the scope of this game. Edited June 11, 2013 by Andeerz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 They could maybe lower chinooks flight range and make longer trips simply take more time as it would need to land and fill fuel tanks periodically...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 The Chinook thing is already way messed up. It's way faster than it should be and has way, way, too much range. And don't know if there is a reasonable solution here. Although I'm tempted to use "Lightzy's Law of Conveniences" and just give it unlimited range, instanteous speed and assume it's uninterceptable. I suppose One could argue that the Chinook really isn't a Chinook until it gets to the target area. Maybe the "Chinook" is a Chinook inside a C-5A for the majority of travel time. They already have that jet transport icon. They ought to just make that go the target area then switch to the Chinook icon for the last short leg of the trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svidangel Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 If a chinook lands at an alien craft site, but there are no aliens left alive to see it, is it really a chinook at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoitessier Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 maybe the reason you can't fit 18 in the Charlie is because they have giant invisible fuel tanks in the cargo bay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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