Hidden movement picture on/off. Fog of war?

[erutan]

If you're gonna do real time footsteps it doesn't make sense to turn off civilians but keep aliens... sound is sound.

I had forgotten the range of footsteps, but I do vaguely recall listening to them over and over again, and sometimes hearing them pretty far away with a solitary enemy, but it's been a while.

[GizmoGomez]

It wouldn't be simply turning off the sound, it'd be basically skipping the real time movement of the civilians, because you don't really need to know where they're at. Knowing where the ETs are is more important, so leaving them with real time movement would be more useful. That way you could still have the info provided by the hidden movement sounds, and the time elapsed between them, and you also would not have to wait for every civilian to move around aimlessly. Best of both worlds, as it were.

[erutan]

Part of the experience was hearing civvies move, then hearing aliens, waiting for the right type of footsteps, etc. I'm aware it's skipping animations, but from a tactical perspective it's not like you can only hear the sounds you want to hear on the battlefield.

I'm still personally in the "keep it as short as possible" camp, but the selective hearing just seems a bit odd. Plus you have NPCs that are armed, if they're shooting you know they are shooting at something, you can hear the pain gasp when it hits, perhaps a death rattle etc. So it seems that at least armed NPCs would still play out.

[GizmoGomez]

That is true, the armed NPCs do make a difference. I suppose I was mainly thinking of my experiences with UFO:EU, where the civilians really didn't matter too much, as far as where they were went. I suppose leaving out the second option would be best then, either you hear everyone or it goes past all of the hidden hidden movement, only showing the not-so-hidden hidden movement.

[Gorlom]

Can the game show any indication if it is the aliens or the friendly AIs turn?

[Ettrazi]

I actually do like the hidden movement screen for comments stated above, suspense, tension...etc, etc, however, I would like to make a suggestion to the image that is displayed. Would it be possible to create a screen to simulate a static signal, like as if the video feed has been cut or interrupted on air. I think it would add a cool sense of immersion to the game. I love the background for the present screen now, but it's kind of jarring, I think.

[thothkins]

I thought that the image was pretty evocative of the Xenonauts mood myself. Although I'd love to have the option of being able to insert images into a folder that will adjust the image for a bit of variety.

In what way do you find it jarring? is it because it's tied to a single setting?

[Ettrazi]

That's part of it, but it's like I feel disconnected from what is going on screen. I think personally any image would evoke that kind of reaction for me, not specifically just that image, the big bold heading "hidden movement" doesn't do much for me either. It kind of breaks the 4th wall for me. If the screen was just a simple animation showing static or like one of those tv screening color bars:

Static:

http://s551.beta.photobucket.com/user/bluecynder/media/Animated%20GIFS/tv_static_by_tbh_1138-d3jmbjq.gif.html

TV Color Bars:

http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/hiemily123/?action=view&current=colour_bars.jpg&newest=1

It would do wonders to keep the illusion of being there and in command, as if you as the player, is directing the movements not as a player, but as some top level official for the Xenonauts, issuing commands from some bunker or command post. I mean the air combat screens use a scheme that looks like radar screen, why not provide the same level of immersion for the tactics phases.

That reminds me, I wonder if it would be possible to add a radar sweep effect to the air combat screen complete with ghosting effects. The current screen right now looks fine, but personally stand out as a little bland in my opinion.

Hope all this makes some kind of sense.

[Gorlom]

That's part of it, but it's like I feel disconnected from what is going on screen. I think personally any image would evoke that kind of reaction for me, not specifically just that image, the big bold heading "hidden movement" doesn't do much for me either. It kind of breaks the 4th wall for me. If the screen was just a simple animation showing static or like one of those tv screening color bars:

Static:

http://s551.beta.photobucket.com/user/bluecynder/media/Animated%20GIFS/tv_static_by_tbh_1138-d3jmbjq.gif.html

TV Color Bars:

http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee314/hiemily123/?action=view¤t=colour_bars.jpg&newest=1

It would do wonders to keep the illusion of being there and in command, as if you as the player, is directing the movements not as a player, but as some top level official for the Xenonauts, issuing commands from some bunker or command post. I mean the air combat screens use a scheme that looks like radar screen, why not provide the same level of immersion for the tactics phases.

That reminds me, I wonder if it would be possible to add a radar sweep effect to the air combat screen complete with ghosting effects. The current screen right now looks fine, but personally stand out as a little bland in my opinion.

Hope all this makes some kind of sense.

The static and colourbars are way worse in the sense of breaking the fourth wall imo. Hoping that there will be support for modding the hiddenmovement screen so you can get your camerafeed interruption image while I get to keep my hidden movement image.

[thothkins]

That's part of it, but it's like I feel disconnected from what is going on screen. I think personally any image would evoke that kind of reaction for me, not specifically just that image, the big bold heading "hidden movement" doesn't do much for me either. It kind of breaks the 4th wall for me. If the screen was just a simple animation showing static or like one of those tv screening color bars:

It would do wonders to keep the illusion of being there and in command, as if you as the player, is directing the movements not as a player, but as some top level official for the Xenonauts, issuing commands from some bunker or command post. I mean the air combat screens use a scheme that looks like radar screen, why not provide the same level of immersion for the tactics phases.

That reminds me, I wonder if it would be possible to add a radar sweep effect to the air combat screen complete with ghosting effects. The current screen right now looks fine, but personally stand out as a little bland in my opinion.

Hope all this makes some kind of sense.

Right gotcha. Thanks for taking the time to clarify that. So something that extends the idea that you're actually viewing the Battlescape from another location, as a commander, would increase the immersion.

If things were to be as you suggested, I'm not sure that the static or the colour bars would add to my immersion. By that, I mean that both would indicate that signals had been disrupted by something. In fact, it's just that things are happening out of your field of view.

So, I'd probably prefer to remain on the battlescape focused on your squad. The screen then moves to the soldier nearest where footfalls/ gunfire is heard. Now this has come up before, and I think some of the things required wouldn't be supported by the engine. I'm sure someone can correct me, if I'm wrong there.

A signal lost static screen could be interesting, if it left your troops to follow their own AI for a few turns, based on strategies you set out for them, and their own stats. Alien EMP weaponry

Gorman: Jesus Christ, Apone! What is going on?

I think the colour bar thing would give me a headache after a while (a while being about 30s)

[Ettrazi]

I can see where your misgivings stem from, but even with the argument that the action is merely out of view, explaining the interruption as interference from the aliens would be as plausible an argument for its inclusion also as a means to mask their movements from electronic surveillance. Once in visual range of your troops however, there is no need for the static or interference as your units are now relaying that information from first hand experience.

Your suggestion with the actual application of the static screen with game play elements however is awesome. I think it would warrant another screen though, maybe just a blank screen with the words "Video Feed lost" or something like that, though realistically, I think it would just be a lot more work for the guys at Goldhawk. But yeah, anything to keep the 4th wall would be ideal for me. Others may disagree, but in a game like this or like say Command and Conquer Red Alert where you are addressed as the commander, retaining that barrier really makes you feel invested in the universe and the plot. Just a thought.

[Fuskpäls]

... because the way it is now, when the picture keeps flickering on and off rather fast and it gets me very sick and dizzy feeling and I have to turn my monitor off; This is not a very good thing for me because it could cause me to have a seizure.

I agree! Plus I can hardly register where the alien/civ activity is, because it is going so fast.

It could be solved easily however, if the speed of going through the hidden movement phase could be slowed down - just a notch!

[RawCode]

hidden movement screen is stone age, FoW already here, there is no problems to hide projectiles of unit who fires them inside FoW, no problem to not focus camera on fogged units.

in current build camera completely idiotic, making combat slow and boring, in most tbs games AI controlled units inside fog merely teleport around, instantly, without any notification, sound, particles, animation, dont see any reason why this cannot be implemented in xenonauts.

for "retro games" gtfo, this "screen" have nothing with games of 80x

[Gauddlike]

This screen that you say has nothing to do with a retro feel is a big part of the game this one was based on so I would suggest that you may not be entirely correct there.

It may not be essential to recapturing the feel of the game but that is not the same as having nothing to do with it.

Also your statement that you see no reason why instant movement cannot be implemented in Xenonauts does not reflect the posts of the lead dev in this thread when he states that the game engine does not work that way.

He did say that work would be done to make them as fast as possible though.

Basically I just wanted to point out that simply because you assume the game can work in a certain way does not make that a fact.

The camera does need a little work though, it still tracks things it doesn't need to and ignores some things it shouldn't.

That is polishing the mechanic though rather than a reason to ditch it.

[Chris]

Not read the whole thread, but the Hidden Movement screen isn't working properly at the moment. It should show everything that occurs within your line of sight when working correctly, and will only hide hidden movement.