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Charon

[1.65/X.CE V0.35.0] X-Division 1.00 Beta (1.00.11)

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3 hours ago, Charon said:

i love how the psionic attacks camouflage Wraiths teleporting around.

Agree, but it just dont camouflage it enough, if I see no rings or hear the sound more than there are rings, I KNOW it means teleportation. As you know I have already changes the psy sound to original X-Com, what I am planning with this ( if it works ) is to give the teleportation a "nothing" sound, so I wont know when it occurs unless I have visual contact. I think the teleportation ability will be more scary and frightening, if I cant hear it happening.

 

2 hours ago, Charon said:

Thats a question I cant answer without looking into. As a base X-Division cant be run with any other mods, but maybe @Svinedrengencan look into it and then forward you his results.

Oh I will look into this for sure.

Edited by Svinedrengen

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2 hours ago, Charon said:

Can you do me the favour and check if everything works as it is supposed to ?

Yep, all issues I mentioned were solved. However, I just noticed that, while Ambient Sounds was indeed installed and activated (your version "COM" of it), Ambient Forest wasn't. There is a (deactivated) Ambient Forests mod in the load order, but judging by its position I venture it is from vanilla CE. Is Ambient Forests also merged into COM-Ambient Sounds during the installation, or is this another issue?

EDIT: I'm stupid, there is a COM - Ambient Forests mod a bit below the X-Division ones, adn it is indeed activated. Still, as a veeeery low priority, you could make the installer reloaate it adjacent to COM - Ambient Sounds (assuming there is no overriding issues), to keep the load order tidy.

Edited by Mr. Mister

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1 hour ago, Svinedrengen said:

Agree, but it just dont camouflage it enough, if I see no rings or hear the sound more than there are rings, I KNOW it means teleportation

You are a crazy bastard. Always pushing to the rim.

Yeh, i know that it is not undetectable, thats also what i do. I count the number of sounds i hear and try to judge based on my evaluation if the situation has become more dangerous all of a sudden. If i hear psionic waves and dont see any rings i can also "assume" something has teleported somewhere. Sometimes the aliens just teleport from one UFO level to the next, and its a false positive. Sometimes you literally dont turn around and they eliminate you from the back. The point i am trying to bring across is that it is based on SKILL, otherwise you will just have to check your six every turn ( and lose TU with that in the progress ). Sometimes a false positive can be come a correct one and they just teleported further away.

In a nutshell if you remove the teleportation sound altogether your remove a gameplay element depending on skill, or a good ear. Im not trying to remove skill elements from X-Division, but rather increase it, so that you can factor out luck on a statistical level as much as possible.

Edit: Once you have a tired evening you will soon realise what the difference between counting rings, and not being able to count rings, is.

11 minutes ago, Mr. Mister said:

Yep, all issues I mentioned were solved. However, I just noticed that, while Ambient Sounds was indeed installed and activated (your version "COM" of it), Ambient Forest wasn't. There is a (deactivated) Ambient Forests mod in the load order, but judging by its position I venture it is from vanilla CE. Is Ambient Forests also merged into COM-Ambient Sounds during the installation, or is this another issue?

The mods which you should be able to deactivate/activate through the installer are the "COM - Ambient Sounds" and the "COM - Ambience Forest" ones. They seem to work on my end.

Edited by Charon

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Sebilian Guard's autopsy says that its hide is green, when in both the sprite and the xenopedia art it is clearly pink.

EDIT: Okay, the sprite of only SOME guards is pink, but the xenopedia entry is still pink. Maybe just change it to "mostly green, though sometimes pink"?

EDIT2: Also, I've looked at Elarion's charts in the dev diary page, and though I don't know how it works internally, it would be neater if the global/generic autopsy of a species was done BEFORE any of its type-specific ones: It is clear that the xenopedia entry of Sebilian Guard Autopsy references stuff from the generic Sebilian Autopsy, and having a sebilian guard corpse lets both types of autoppsy be performed, but at least in my game the Guard-specific autopsy got completed about 24 hours before the generic one.

EDIT3: Alien Grenade's icon doesn't appear on the grenade selection equipment tile, though it does appear in the inventory screen.

grenade.png

Edited by Mr. Mister

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3 hours ago, Mr. Mister said:

Sebilian Guard's autopsy says that its hide is green, when in both the sprite and the xenopedia art it is clearly pink.

EDIT: Okay, the sprite of only SOME guards is pink, but the xenopedia entry is still pink. Maybe just change it to "mostly green, though sometimes pink"?

There is an explanation in the Xpedia for this.

3 hours ago, Mr. Mister said:

EDIT2: Also, I've looked at Elarion's charts in the dev diary page, and though I don't know how it works internally, it would be neater if the global/generic autopsy of a species was done BEFORE any of its type-specific ones: It is clear that the xenopedia entry of Sebilian Guard Autopsy references stuff from the generic Sebilian Autopsy, and having a sebilian guard corpse lets both types of autoppsy be performed, but at least in my game the Guard-specific autopsy got completed about 24 hours before the generic one.

Uff .. you make me work.

Fixed this for the 4 relevant races.

4 hours ago, Mr. Mister said:

EDIT3: Alien Grenade's icon doesn't appear on the grenade selection equipment tile, though it does appear in the inventory screen.

Vanilla bug. Either you get the icon or you get the autoloot. And autoloot seems to be far more important than the icon.

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Don't know if this is intentional or not but...

Andron Server seems to be impossible to capture if it's last alien remaining. When shield is trashed, battle ends immediately.

X-Division 1.00.10.

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58 minutes ago, Ruthless Reuban said:

Don't know if this is intentional or not but...

Andron Server seems to be impossible to capture if it's last alien remaining. When shield is trashed, battle ends immediately.

X-Division 1.00.10.

Thats intended. You gotta bring enemies down to their last stage before you kill the second last enemy on the map, otherwise they use an emergency teleport out.

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22 hours ago, Mr. Mister said:

(assuming there is no overriding issues)

There is. It is kept where the original Ambient Forest mod was originally located ( and it will change depending on whether XCE changes the order or not ).

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While we're on the topic of xenopedia timing - the Crash Sites entry should be automatically revealed the first time a UFO crashes, as it is much more tutorialesque in nature than it is loresque, and I got it simultaneously with the Scout entry, after I had already raided two UFOs.

Oh, and one that is very minor and maybe just a personal thing - it feels a bit wierd how Alien Invasion (the very first research you start with) also unlocks Avalanche Missiles but there is no mention of why it does. The missiles' entry doesn't need to explain their late appearance (not why they are suddenly there as much as why they weren't there before), but maybe in the big text of Alien Invasion's entry do mention, after the scientist suggests the two possible subsequent researchs, that they also secured the technology/supply of avalanche missiles that are to be installed in the to-be-incestigated heavier interceptors.

EDIT: Also maybe the "Extraterrestrials" category's first entries are listed should be Iceland Incident -> The Start -> Alien Invasion, instead of Iceland Incident -> Alien Invasion -> The Start, seeing how The Start is avaliable since its namesake.


EDIT2: The Manufacture and Disassembly System (DBS) should probably be revealed at the end of the first successful mission, as this way you guarantee it explains to a player what DBS is and its protocols before any other research (both automatic and manual) makes the otherwise-less-explained DBS projects avaliable in the workshop. Also, consider changing "animals" to "alien beasts" or "unarmored alien beasts", though maybe that's just personal preference too.

 

Sorry if I'm flooding you with feedback; I'm just typing it as I encounter it.

Edited by Mr. Mister

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16 minutes ago, Mr. Mister said:

While we're on the topic of xenopedia timing - the Crash Sites entry should be automatically revealed the first time a UFO crashes, as it is much more tutorialesque in nature than it is loresque, and I got it simultaneously with the Scout entry, after I had already raided two UFOs.

The game code doesnt support it.

18 minutes ago, Mr. Mister said:

Oh, and one that is very minor and maybe just a personal thing - it feels a bit wierd how Alien Invasion (the very first research you start with) also unlocks Avalanche Missiles but there is no mention of why it does. The missiles' entry doesn't need to explain their late appearance, but maybe in the big text of Alien Invasion's entry do mention, after the scientist suggests the two possible subsequent researchs, that they also secured the technology/supply of avalanche missiles.

For unknown reasons the torpedo entry cant be unlocked at the start of the game, so i had to add it to a research. They are not not unlocked, only the entry isnt. So you can think about all 3 entries as a dossier about your current military assets, lying on your desk simply as a reminder and as welcome to the game. I dont think that is out of place, once you realise those things dont get unlocked.

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More coming. Seriously, do tell me if you'd rather I write down a good bunch of them before posting them, as I can imagine that a newcomer reporting a load of very nitpicky non-issues can be annoying.

 

In line with two posts ago, maybe Sebillian Non-Combatant Analysis should appear after the generic Sebillian Autopsy (since that's where the term sebillian is defined) but before Sebillian Guard autopsy, as the latter references the sebillian "civilians" (consider changing it to non-combatants for consistency) that you wouldn't know are non-combatants if you hadn't gotten the non-combatant analysis beforehand.


EDIT: I've automatically completed Alien Biology before I even encountered any of the psionic ETs from the ovella which the wiki tells me are called Caesans, which is a bit odd since Alien Biology is meant to arise from comparing the bodies of Caesans and Sebillians. Maybe it shouldn't start being researched until both generic Sebillian Autopsy and Caesan Autopsy have been completed?

Edited by Mr. Mister

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@PALUThe Scout UFO entry has 2 white spaces at the beginning of the second paragraph.

Quote

which be believe

which we believe

 

@Mr. Mister

#OrderofThings Dont worry about the order so much. Apart from very small details everything is thought well through. After your first mission your team researches the captured UFO automatically in a timeframe of 0 - 24 hours. After these kind of preliminary results roll in your forge gets set up ( since you dont have any alien parts to work on yet anyway ), and in the next 24 hours you get the report about it. Sounds sound to me.

1 hour ago, Mr. Mister said:

In line with two posts ago, maybe Sebillian Non-Combatant Analysis should appear after the generic Sebillian Autopsy (since that's where the term sebillian is defined) but before Sebillian Guard autopsy, as the latter references the sebillian "civilians" (consider changing it to non-combatants for consistency) that you wouldn't know are non-combatants if you hadn't gotten the non-combatant analysis beforehand.

I think you are getting a bit ahead of yourself here. Firstly, the autopsy reports and the class analysis reports come from 2 different internal departments inside of your organisation, so their information can overlap, dublicate and/or add to each other. You could tell this from the different art style. but you dont necessarily have to. Secondly, just because it is an Xpedia entry doesnt mean your organisation all of sudden is blessed with knowledge by god. They make mistakes, they make assumptions and they can change terms depending on the way the invasion progresses. Information will get revised, reconfirmed, dismissed, overwritten and overhauled throughout the game, depending on your path through the game. So just because they are for now called non combatants doesnt mean they wont get better defined as the campaign goes on. Just keep your chin up, your brain activated and form your own oppinion. As the head scientist said, thats the only effective weapon you have ;).

Also just because things are not plainly explained to you doesnt mean they dont exist, or have a coherent structure ;).

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Mister said:

More coming. Seriously, do tell me if you'd rather I write down a good bunch of them before posting them, as I can imagine that a newcomer reporting a load of very nitpicky non-issues can be annoying.

Dont worry about me, i only answer as much as i want.

Edited by Charon

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On 12/2/2018 at 11:00 PM, Charon said:

You are a crazy bastard.

I am pretty sure that this is a requirement for players trying to beat this beast on ironman/honestman, that includes you ;)

 

On 12/2/2018 at 11:00 PM, Charon said:

Yeh, i know that it is not undetectable, thats also what i do. I count the number of sounds i hear and try to judge based on my evaluation if the situation has become more dangerous all of a sudden. If i hear psionic waves and dont see any rings i can also "assume" something has teleported somewhere. Sometimes the aliens just teleport from one UFO level to the next, and its a false positive. Sometimes you literally dont turn around and they eliminate you from the back. The point i am trying to bring across is that it is based on SKILL, otherwise you will just have to check your six every turn ( and lose TU with that in the progress ). Sometimes a false positive can be come a correct one and they just teleported further away.

In a nutshell if you remove the teleportation sound altogether your remove a gameplay element depending on skill, or a good ear. Im not trying to remove skill elements from X-Division, but rather increase it, so that you can factor out luck on a statistical level as much as possible

I do see your point, however this is just a theory of mine, and as we all know, what looks and sounds perfekt in theory usely turns out to be quite different in reality. 

 

On 12/2/2018 at 11:00 PM, Charon said:

Once you have a tired evening you will soon realise what the difference between counting rings, and not being able to count rings, is

I will keep this in mind next time I am tired and counting shee... rings. 

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Not a priority, but do you guys think you could make an .ico file out of the X-division logo used for the mod in general and in particular for the start-up loading screen? Just the logo, without any background.

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@PALU

Quote

she know she

knows

Quote

Note that the Leader is the same in the previous phase.

the same as in

Quote

once we have sufficient weapon samples and has interrogated the wielder.

have interrogated

 

@Mr. Mister What do you need an .ico file for ? Do you know what an .ico file is ? The start up screen already uses this image: image.thumb.png.f5e54f56991f433fc1e966544a45eae0.png Dont you like it ?

We have a lot of art lying around, but i think @drages has all rights on the art for X-Division. I would need to know what you use it for before i post any kind of non-published art.

Edited by Charon

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5 hours ago, Charon said:

What do you need an .ico file for ? Do you know what an .ico file is ?

To use it as the icon for the desktop shortcut, of course. 

 

5 hours ago, Charon said:

The start up screen already uses this image: image.thumb.png.f5e54f56991f433fc1e966544a45eae0.png Dont you like it ?

I do indeed like it, which is why I wanted to use the logo (just the logo) from that image as a desktop icon for X-Division. But looking a bit more throughly at it, I realize now that it might have a bit too much detail for it to scale down correctly, hmmm.

Edited by Mr. Mister

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@Mr. Mister Im not sure what would look good but maybe this can help you:

x-division-logo.png.5532072e2aa1f970fb76b6e97e0455bc.png

If you want it in blue you can either manipulate it yourself, or ask @drages if he still has the blue one lying around somewhere.

 

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geoscape bug: aircraft stuck in the air and won't move.

Usually this bug can be worked around by selecting the craft and give it a new order (and it doesn't run out of fuel even if stuck for days [like the first time, when I found the fighters from the very first invasion wave hadn't landed when the next wave arrived]), but the stuck aircraft in the save was ordered to relocate from "Australasia" to "South Africa", and you can't select relocating craft to give them new orders. I did originally relocate 3 craft, and only one of them got stuck. It can be noted that I have saved and reloaded on the geoscape while the craft were in transit, but I haven't performed a single ground combat mission. I cannot say if I had reloaded when the craft got stuck, though, but I definitely have done so after it got stuck to work around a different bug: relocated aircraft can sometimes take off from the base they were relocated from, rather than their new base (and return to the old base, only to teleport to the hangar of the base they were supposed to be at), and I've found that saving and reloading after landing and before taking off gets the craft to start from the correct base.

modloader bottom.png

modloader top.png

3.zip

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@PALUThere is something bugging me. Can you check on all of your aircraft entries where you describe weapon arcs and correct them ? The firing arc degrees are always doubled. So a weapon with an 180 firing arc has complete coverage, while 160 degree means 320.

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I NEED nice aircraft to be able to take down two terror dreadnoughts in the same wave, and I haven't even been able to try to see if I can do anything about the triple landing ship group;)

Aircraft weapon entries: Most entries just use descriptions such as wide and narrow for firing arcs, but a number of them use the same 180 that's stated in the panel of weapon stats. On top of that, I haven't been completely sure a weapon mounted on the "left" side would cover the "right" one, and vise versa. I don't think it's good to give a different firing arc number in the text compared to what's found in the panel, but if it is indeed correct for all cases that 180 means 360, then I can revise entries for such weapons to indicate full coverage.

Balance: It's very expensive to send cores and alien weapons from one base to another for processing, while it's comparatively cheap to send the weapon wielders (both the dead and live ones). I think it would be good to lower the costs for the expensive items to allow players to chose their production strategy. Soldier weapons, on the other hand, ought to be still be costly to ship around to make it an offset cost to ship troops and equipment around rather than using multiple teams (which require the manufacture of multiple sets of equipment).

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1 hour ago, PALU said:

Aircraft weapon entries: Most entries just use descriptions such as wide and narrow for firing arcs, but a number of them use the same 180 that's stated in the panel of weapon stats. On top of that, I haven't been completely sure a weapon mounted on the "left" side would cover the "right" one, and vise versa. I don't think it's good to give a different firing arc number in the text compared to what's found in the panel, but if it is indeed correct for all cases that 180 means 360, then I can revise entries for such weapons to indicate full coverage.

Please do so. I particularly dont like entries describing 180 degree coverage as "you can shoot while you fly away from the target". While this is technichally correct, the 180 degrees are more than misleading.

nick-young-confused-face-300x256-nqlyaa.

1 hour ago, PALU said:

Balance: It's very expensive to send cores and alien weapons from one base to another for processing, while it's comparatively cheap to send the weapon wielders (both the dead and live ones). I think it would be good to lower the costs for the expensive items to allow players to chose their production strategy. Soldier weapons, on the other hand, ought to be still be costly to ship around to make it an offset cost to ship troops and equipment around rather than using multiple teams (which require the manufacture of multiple sets of equipment).

Transfer costs are 10% of sell costs, we cant set them differently unless we change the sell prices, which i am not sure are unbalanced.

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@PALU On Xenomorph's vivisection,

Quote

this supports your men's claims of "animal like behaviour" I doubt these creatures even

Missing a period before "I doubt". Also I think you should add a hyphen so it is animal-like.

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Just wanted to thank everyone for this mod. 

I have gone back 10 pages to 115 through 125 and just wanted to confirm that the COM ambient and forest sounds still cause instability?  I am using the latest .exe for  1.00.10 attached to this thread.  

Also just wanted to mention that the collaboration and communication on changes and fixes for this mod is awesome to read.  Thanks everyone for the hard work.

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@PALUIf you want a perfect solution you can simply describe the coverage angle as the angle which the weapon covers to the left and the right. Thats the technical reason for it anyway, the arc gets calculated once to the left and once to the right, and this is why 180 degree equals 360 degree.

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