pcgevan Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Jesus Christ. I'm on Normal Ironman, and I've restarted my campaign SEVEN times now because grenades continually kill 3+ members of my ground forces at a time. Even with good armor, they absolutely annihilate my soldiers, and I have no idea what I can do to defend against them. It always happens when I'm breaching alien ships/bases (sometimes they throw grenades through the ceiling of the ship, that's cool). What the hell can I do? If I send just one or two soldiers in, they'll probably just get gunned down. I guess I'm just encouraged to wait outside the entrance of ships, spamming the open/close door command and waiting for cheap kills. I don't like playing the game that way. Really frustrating. I don't think I'll be playing any more Xenonauts until grenades are rebalanced. : ( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 You can blast the door and gun them down from a distance outside the UFO, have you tried C4? Another option would be to reserve enough TUs for reaction fire if your soldiers have good enough suitable close quarters equipment and reflexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Spread out your guys! Aliens only use grenades on groups. Use auto fire to suppress them. In the OG aliens grenades were very powerful too. Even more powerful than in Xenonauts. They had a huge blast radius too. Edited July 7, 2014 by StellarRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewThePhenom Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Really frustrating. I don't think I'll be playing any more Xenonauts until grenades are rebalanced. : ( Or, you can try another strategy and not group your troops together to be slaughtered by grenades? Also, suppression is usually enough to prevent the enemy from throwing grenades. Not a good idea to wait for that "grenade re-balance", since that will never happen. There's also the tactic of private red-shirt with a shield, since aliens will lob grenades at shield units. Nothing wrong with sacrificing a unit to win the mission. Edited July 7, 2014 by ViewThePhenom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcgevan Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 So how do you guys breach rooms? When I'm in an alien base it feels like a terrible idea to send just two or three guys in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefsbrian Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Well I send two or three guys in, usually a shield followed by two Carabines. Then once they've established a foothold, the rest of the men bum rush in and spray auto rifle fire everywhere. Judicious application of grenades in Alien bases isn't bad either, I personally am not there for the corpses and alien rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyDaemon Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I've just been extremely fortunate with my recent B Team landing ship UFO mission. My forward shield scout wearing wolf armour ate 2 grenades in the face and survived with minor scratches. First grenade was resisted, second did only about 10 damage. Just inches behind him was an unarmoured (basic armour is no armour) rookie in both occasions. I think he shat himself twice. I'll second the advice to spread your soldiers out. I've noticed that whenever you end your turn with guys bunched up within line of sight and range of the aliens, they're more than eager to capitalise on the opportunity to grenade you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthon Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I've even had sudden grenades thrown blindly over walls at me. I really hate the AI "omniscience." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibelung44 Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 If the alien never ever throw a grenade against 1 single man (is it confirmed), then the viable tactic would be to put a forward shield 3 squares in front of the rest of the squad, at turn end. Before that, move squad, fire on targets, and then as a last the shield guy moves in front, 3 squares further than the others troopers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I've even had sudden grenades thrown blindly over walls at me. I really hate the AI "omniscience."Actually there is no omniscience. They draw the logical conclusion that they saw you there last turn and they didn't see you leave you're more than likely still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Haha yea, and they draw a conclusion that over the wall they dont see all entrances to are at least 2 soldiers next to each other to trigger a nade... and they conclude the exact spot the soldiers are standing on, not an approximate one. I wanna learn that logic. Also, suppression still leaves the XENO SCUM enough ap to throw a grenade, its the "spread out" part that saves you. I mean, harridans will nade anything, even single targets, but its still better to lose one rather than 3 soldiers. Edited July 7, 2014 by ViniJones typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahvipannu Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Actually there is no omniscience. They draw the logical conclusion that they saw you there last turn and they didn't see you leave you're more than likely still there. I have gotten grenade thrown at me from other room over thick wall at alienbase. It has happened just once tought, but it took out my most experienced guy Edited July 7, 2014 by kahvipannu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Those people who are accusing the aliens of omniscience, take that up with Giis-Jan. If you do, then back up what you say with saves, because from GJ's point of view, you're telling him he wasn't good enough to code decent AI, and instead settled for cheating. Edited July 7, 2014 by Max_Caine changed wording around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 ... because from GJ's point of view, you're telling him he wasn't good enough to code decent AI, and instead settled for cheating. Well when you put it like that I sound like an asshole, but yeah. What kind of save would do? One after a soldier gets naded? Because thats when the game saves. I cant really predict when theyre gonna throw it to provide an earlier one... since they throw it regardless of circumstances, or so it would seem. Does it have to be a vanilla save? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthon Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Well when you put it like that I sound like an asshole, but yeah. What kind of save would do? One after a soldier gets naded? Because thats when the game saves. I cant really predict when theyre gonna throw it to provide an earlier one... since they throw it regardless of circumstances, or so it would seem. Does it have to be a vanilla save? Yes, it is quite hard to catch with a save. I will instead attempt to back it up with a highlight next time it happens. However I have had grenades thrown over a furlough on a farm map by caeseans who never had sight of me up until that point. Freaked the hell out of me, and I responded in kind... which kind of set the field he was in on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahvipannu Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Those people who are accusing the aliens of omniscience, take that up with Giis-Jan. If you do, then back up what you say with saves, because from GJ's point of view, you're telling him he wasn't good enough to code decent AI, and instead settled for cheating. Yeah I don't think there is need to blame AI for it, but all I can tell is that it happened to me once. When you play Ironman, there is no going back. I can tell you it was propably the leader, alienbase, and it came from the "command-room", over solid wall to the teleporter room I arrived from otherside of the teleport. I remeber it well, since I stated it took my best soldier, and at that point I was cursing playing ironman. But soldiers come and go. I'm guessing it is just a rare bug or brain-fart? Line of sight can be a tad wonky at times with Xenonauts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screeg Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Yeah I don't think there is need to blame AI for it... If you're not going to blame the game AI for its grenade throwing behavior, what exactly are you going to blame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 If you're not going to blame the game AI for its grenade throwing behavior, what exactly are you going to blame?It could be a problem with the map or a bug in the game mechanics. From what Gjis-Jan has written in the past I believe the AI issues orders to it's troops just like you do. It doesn't have the ability to bypass any of the constraints that a human would encounter. So, if it issued an order to throw a grenade then odds are the LOF was clear due to a map error or some other bug that made the throw possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Haha yea, and they draw a conclusion that over the wall they dont see all entrances to are at least 2 soldiers next to each other to trigger a nade... and they conclude the exact spot the soldiers are standing on, not an approximate one. I wanna learn that logic.And you could do the same couldn't you? How do you know another alien that you hadn't seen wasn't watching your guys with a clear LOS? Remember, they use squad sight too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screeg Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Ahhh, that sounds like an intelligent way to do it. I like it, even if it has a few flaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 And you could do the same couldn't you? How do you know another alien that you hadn't seen wasn't watching your guys with a clear LOS? Remember, they use squad sight too. I am aware, everytime I get naded I check if theres an alien somewhere in a 360 degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Unless the AI moves its soldiers the way a player would. Walk scout forward, spot enemy, use soldier with higher TU to throw grenade/shoot using squad sight, run to cover with scout. In that situation you would likely never see the scout unless it happened to walk into line of sight of one of your static troops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Unless the AI moves its soldiers the way a player would.Walk scout forward, spot enemy, use soldier with higher TU to throw grenade/shoot using squad sight, run to cover with scout. In that situation you would likely never see the scout unless it happened to walk into line of sight of one of your static troops. Yep. That's how I play and I know the AI does the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Yep, Ive seen the AI do that, sometimes, they fire off all their ap in plasma most of the time though,staying in plain sight. I admit it is possible for the AI to actually come over a corner to spot, throw with another unit and then hide the spotter. Still, the situation I described happens in farms and industrials, where I tend to cover the entrances and would spot the potential scout. EDIT: Harridans might be the problem, they could fly up and spot over the wall. Ive seen one land right behind me on a roof and throw a nade. Not sure if theres harridan/sebillian crews though. Edited July 7, 2014 by ViniJones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 There is likely a bug buried somewhere as has been suggested before. Could be a tile bug where something is not blocking line of sight properly, an AI bug or something else. Unlikely it will be found without some serious playtesting and probably a lot of luck, like saving the game at just the right time so you can repeat the incident. One one hand it is rare enough not to be a major game breaker on every play through but the down side to that is it makes it very difficult to reproduce, assuming there is a bug to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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