Rider Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Well when two of my guys died and I realize that fire comes from above I just run through that room to another one, and than solved that invisible sniper later, but as I say it sucks Edited July 21, 2014 by Rider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Ok, finally I could play something. Here is my thoughs about Corvette The middle room is a main alien Gathering hole. You can catch them and land a rocket. I've just killed 2 with 1 blast (lucky RNG). The right wing (if you face towards the exit) is less cluttered than the other plus that small thing near the small doors strangely gives 100% cover. I think it should give 50-75%. The left wing is too cluttered I think. It all gets to put that soldier near the chair and you are completely blocked. I think the removal of those wall facing alternative enternace should be removed or all the walls should be replaced by vaultable ones. The current layout is much better than the previous but it could be better. No complaints about the rear room. But right now the right wing is way opened towards rushing in, while the left wing is well suited for hunkering down. And if aliens like the middle point, well there is nothing stopping you from entering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Ragulin Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 kabill - re power core fires and suicidal aliens. Did you ever check to see if reducing the core smoke reduced the fire? I've recently been using a higher dissipation chance for it (33, up from 10), and there seems to be less fire in the crash sites too. There's also been less squealing (or none) at the end of the turns, which suggests that as the smoke dissipates, so does the fire. However, this is all anecdotal at the moment, but could warrant further poking. Could be a case of no fire without smoke. Ta-da-dum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Can't say if it is because of your mod or game fault. Can't target the units on top of UFOs. Must focus fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I think its the same LoS problem like inside landing ship, you need to lure Harris to the edge than is easy to shoot them point blank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Well the Laningship is buggy as hell. Can see everything from the below and the upper floor is even worse. While moving on the upper floor the Top of the UFO is getting overlayed. It's mostly noticable on the right side of the UFO from player perspective. The cargo hold is a massacre. Don't enter through either main entrance or the side entrances nearest the main entrance. Aliens can lob a grenade through floor. The command room is a battle bunker 5000. Don't enter without proper explosive weaponry. Preferably in numbers grater than 1. I don't say that is bad thing. Edited July 23, 2014 by silencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'll reply to the other points above in a bit, but just on the subject of the last post: Yeah, I've had this issue before and I don't know why it happens. It doesn't (or didn't, I can't say about the Experimental download) happen all the time; indeed in my experience most of the time it doesn't. I thought it might be a submap related issue, but I've checked in-game every single landing ship submap and had them all work perfectly fine. Thus, so far as I can tell it's totally random and I don't know what to do about it. Do you happen to have a save prior to the mission? And if so, could I get you to uploaded it (and to tell me what other mods your running?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I can give you 3 saves. s1 is right before breaching the UFO s2 is before the mission but there is no UFO yet. Autosave is the beginning of the mission. Mods: FitH, Lore+, yours and Skitsos map pack. I don't think you need Hold the line or Valkyrie fix for that save. [ATTACH]5085[/ATTACH] Additional mods, Skitsos Oppersive UI + inventory script, and Jsleezys portarits and armours but I guess they wouldn't cause any issues. The issue only happens on right side of the Upper floor, the left side works perfectly. Xenonauts.zip Xenonauts.zip Edited July 23, 2014 by silencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Double post to reply to things above: Re: Corvette - When I tested a similar design to the one I've uploaded I noticed a tendency towards the central area as well. Not sure why exactly. One possible work-around of this would be to move the command section around. Currently, the command tiles are placed in the engine room, but I could alternate where the command aliens are to ensure there'll always be a chance of them being in one of the side rooms as well (which presents a threat which needs to be considered when attacking). That aside, thanks for the feedback. I'll keep it in mind when I come to do a revision. Re: landing ship roof. Don't know. It's kind of the mod's fault, since in vanilla you can't land on the UFO roofs at all. But I presume it's a vanilla bug that's actually causing the targeting issue. One plausible explanation is that it's related to trying to shoot through the old UFO roof tiles (which block movement; I had to leave some in to avoid units being able to stand on air). But I don't know. @Mikhail: I spent a lot of the time with the power core dispersion chance set high (~70%) and I can't say I noticed it making a difference. I've also tried turning the fire dispersal chance up to full in config.xml but that doesn't work either. I've been meaning, actually, to poke the community mod team to see if anyone would be willing to externalise the variables. It would be really useful as it's seriously limiting the Corvette and Scout designs (there's some spaces perfect for putting cover in but I can't do so without making aliens want to walk in places where they might burn to death). @silencer: those saves are great, thanks. Can't look at them tonight, but I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can do anything useful with them. And thanks again for testing stuff out. Sorry it's not working properly. Edited July 23, 2014 by kabill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Alien officer in Corvette likes to hang in the middle / right wing. Strangely so, in previous design, he also preferred right wing. Casean also liked to go inside the double entrance door. I am also considering in landingship would it be better to have that bigger door in the middle of the wall, rather those 2 small ones on the edges (access to command room). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Alien officer in Corvette likes to hang in the middle / right wing. Strangely so, in previous design, he also preferred right wing. Casean also liked to go inside the double entrance door. You've just reminded me that the vanilla Corvette doesn't have a command room set nor has any command room AI aliens, so the command room I've designated won't be used. Since XCE 0.26 is supposed to have a better format for modding crew loadouts, I might make a small change to set some to command AI instead. I am also considering in landingship would it be better to have that bigger door in the middle of the wall, rather those 2 small ones on the edges (access to command room). Any particular reason? (For clarity's sake, the reason why I made the doors like that is primarily to minimise the player's ability to door-spam. By making it difficult to get good LoF on aliens inside, ideally it will require players to actually move into the room rather than sitting safely outside.) (Also, there's some practical background reasons why it might be better than a single door, since it avoids funnelling crew into a single space, allows better access from each side of the room, and reduces the risk of fire or malfunction blocking access.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) The reason is that aliens will always use corners. Being random there will be always 2 - 1 divide. From the side doors player can easily divide the team in 2 small groups having MGs set behind the doors. They can lay down suppression fire on the corners until the aliens will be suppressed. Then they can easily reach the point and blast the aliens without any consequences. The doors in the middle would make tighter formation for the player. I think in current situation assaulting command room is far easier than in the vanilla. Also if you put a person under the command room, you can abuse the spotting bug and know where the aliens are. This is what I have in mind. The MG'er from the left side can suppress both aliens on the right side. Also the Rocketeer can do his damage too. The MGer from the right side can suppress the corner on the left. when the aliens are suppressed is up to the rest to just rush in with carbines and finish them off. Edited July 24, 2014 by silencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Ok, yeah. That's actually precisely the kind of situation I was trying to avoid in the first place. I'll change it to a single central entrance in the next version and see if that helps. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Is there a tutorial video / documentation, how can I change the layout of UFOs? Might want to try myself do some changes, but I don't have the time to learn everything by myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 There's a tutorial on how to use the submap editor stickied on the mapping forum. UFOs are a bit more complicated, but for just moving some props around it might be adequate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Strangely when I load any layout I get the crashed version. Is there a bug in editor ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 For the experimental version I didn't bother doing a separate non-damaged version for the landed UFOs (no point if I'm going to change them again). So its intentional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 That image made me cry the modular UFOs turned out to be a dead end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 That image made me cry the modular UFOs turned out to be a dead end Sadly, unless the LoS bug can be fixed, yeah. I'd post about it on the community edition forum in case anyone is willing to see if they can find the issue, but it's quite big ask for anyone to do. (Interestingly, silencer's description of LoS issues with the landing ship actually sounds close to to the problem I was experiencing with the modular UFOs.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) I've experienced similar strange LoS bugs with one of my industrial maps (train stock) where second floor balconies are not visible from level 1. I wonder if the bug depends on the direction it's revealed. All the other balconies I've made work fine, but you always see them first from SE or SW but this particular balcony is placed so you always reveal it looking it from north to south... dunno. Haven't had time to experiment with it. Edited July 24, 2014 by Skitso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 A little comment on the Scout UFO. The main room is OK. But the back room is too overdone. If alien goes back there he won't come out. Or maybe if he is facing 8 Xenonanuts, he prefers to hide. But the problem is that 100% cover thing in the middle. With any sane approach, you need high explosives to deal with that one. Without it I bet in early days you'll get some men slaughtered and if it is Sebillian better be quick. But then again, not bringing explosives to any composition of that room, would be bad idea. Also I think you've forgot to add footsteps to damaged floors or at least those ones covered in red goo (or maybe they are charred from the explosives). It does look silly when you're soldiers are moving over void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 @Skitso: I know the bit you mean. In the landing ship submap, though, it happens regardless of what way you enter the main room. @silencer: I didn't know when I placed the pedestal thing that it was 100% cover blocking. Also, I'm tempted to add in the window fix for the screens so that they're only 50% cover as well (I've been playing with the window fix patch, so that's what it's been like for me anyway). Do you think that would help? Also, about footsteps, I didn't add anything to the placed bits of damage but a lot of it will be placed by the the power core explosions and there's not anything I can do about that. Not sure whether it's worth adding sounds to the placed bits, either, unless there's a scout that might suit walking on both metal floor and ground (I'm surprised the ground underneath doesn't play a sound, to be honest). -- Regarding the Landing Ship oddness: I checked out both the save game during the mission and started a new mission. Checking the save game with the problem, I can confirm it's definitely the problem I've had before. However, as I thought, when I started a new mission and played through it was fine and worked exactly how it should. It's likely for my test that I rolled a different UFO submap, but they should all be identical for the landing ship at the moment (as I just copy pasted over all of the original FitH ones to make the experimental version install easier) so that shouldn't be responsible. (Also, I've tested this before). Other than that, no clue. I don't think it's anything happening during the mission, at least not when breaching the UFO. There's no reason for it to be a map issue. The only thing I can come up with which is random between the missions is the placement of smoke and fire - maybe there's some issue with fire being placed on the top-right corner of the UFO hull image or something (spectres 'centred' in the top-right corner, and there was fire there in silencer's save. But I'm pretty much guessing). But I'm totally guessing and don't know what to do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) I had another landingship. This time it was perfect. No LoS abuse from ground floor, no top being overlayed when moving. If you want to keep those glass panes it sure would help reducing their cover to 50%. It's also a shame that those holes don't show what is on the ground floor. Only black hole of darnkess. Edited July 24, 2014 by silencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Can I use it with 0.26 or must I wait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencer Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) Found another bug. Missed the charge by 1 tile. Still could move trough. Don't know if you just need to see the inside of the room. Or maybe the sprites did not update? But I'm pretty sure I've missed it by 1 tile. Edit: Holy Christmas Batman. That is landed UFO. You'll need to do something with AI. Edited July 27, 2014 by silencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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