[v1.5/X:CE] Fire in the Hole! Destructible UFO Hulls (v1.3.3)

[kabill]

Kabill, could you help with that?

Its my post to TD XNT:ID mod thread

"as i understand, the balkons appear because kabills interior ufos redesign, yes?

well 2 features, from landship.

they are really crazy 2nd flour killers. they saw my soldiers from 2nd flour and i doesnt even any.

Even more - no area view - the field of balkons, that must show down flour is black.

And second - i stormed andron landship - whom-how... but its crazy (not because they react... just there too low for aliens to react - 2 andron soldiers on 1st flour downed near the gates and 1 on the second besides officer bodyguards pinned in the back room).

But! I even doesn't see the only one defending andron, that stands between 2 balkons in the center of 2nd flour - why? No LoS problems there where! Opened area - just balcon bordeur! Maybe lets tell about it to kabill?"

plus as i remembered for now - strangely, but doese the doors of second flour landship - are not lookable through them? Could you look? I doesn't see through them, as standart doors

I think I've followed this:

First: yes, the loading bay in the landing ship is a death trap. I recommend not approaching through that way if you can avoid it. Blowing out either of the side hull segments or the roof segment at the front of the ship can allow you easy access that area and help you take it.

Second: Sadly, that area is made more deadly due to a LoS issue between the lower and upper floor. I don't know why, but for whatever reason soldiers on the ground floor can't see properly through the gaps up to the second floor. You *can* however still target from the lower to the upper floor. In any case, this is not something that I know how to fix without removing that section entirely (and I don't really want to do that, because I really like it).

Thirdly: When you're on the second floor, yes, the gaps down to the first floor appear black. This is due to how the hull sections work: what you're actually seeing is the black space in the first-level hull image below. I tried all kinds of ways of resolving that issue so that the image didn't impede vision to the bottom floor, but in the end I couldn't find one. However, your soldiers can still see through and shoot through the gap perfectly fine. It's only a display issue when you're on the second floor.

Fourthly: I'm not sure I've understood your point about the Andron. Is your point simply that you should have had LoS on it from the ground floor? Or something else?

Fifthly: If there's an issue with seeing through the doors on the second floor, then it's some kind of weird temperamental bug. The doors used there are exactly the same as doors used in other UFOs, so there's no reason for them to be different. For what it's worth, I have experienced oddness with the second floor of a landing ship with the hull flickering on and off, but this seemed to happen entirely randomly and I have no idea what caused it.

Sorry not a lot of that is very useful. If you have any screenshots regarding the last two points, I might be able to help better.

[Kirill Selivanov]

Fourthly: I'm not sure I've understood your point about the Andron. Is your point simply that you should have had LoS on it from the ground floor? Or something else?

From the 2nd Flour.

Sorry, can't make screens - even windowed Xenonauts doesn't react properly in my system and to snagit either

I mean that, there are 2 teleporters.

1. Soldier at the teleporter at the 2nd flour, looking to the door - doesnt see what is after it in line of sight - to other teleportes, as must be.

stay close to the door doesn't do that too. So no enemys spoted too

2. So after soldier open the door - he saw all the room with bordurs just black zones at his back. So he MUST see enemy in there. But, i must move him 1-2 tiles to central door, to make him spott the alien 4 tiles from cental door (line that between bordurs) to officer room.

So if alien move away from the door, i must go further to spot him. Looks like strange LoS behavior with black zones (maybe), i just doesn't know properly, but can give sav.

https://mega.co.nz/#!0s1yAQrR!SPZnzb5GQch_kkhCJpEvv-DTZxVGrP3ypLXkGjl8CqU

And may be it is all okey and i mstaken

[kabill]

I'll have a look at the save at the weekend. Thanks.

[Kucsmagomba]

Hello!

I found that installing your mod, starting base structure descriptions are missing from xenopedia.

There are not in your mods' "_basebuilt.lua".

The one row with the breaching charge can be copied into the games own lua, and the problem is gone.

[kabill]

Hello!

I found that installing your mod, starting base structure descriptions are missing from xenopedia.

There are not in your mods' "_basebuilt.lua".

The one row with the breaching charge can be copied into the games own lua, and the problem is gone.

Yeah, this doesn't surprise me. I've not updated that file in a while.

I'll be doing a new version tomorrow though, which will use the new X:CE modular mods function to avoid any compatibility issues (hurrah!).

[spudcosmic]

Hey, I was wondering if you could do a version of the 'open doors' extra, but for the alien bases, thanks.

[Kirill Selivanov]

7. MAybe its to kabill

landship. damagable place in the roof (from damageble hull mod). when the main doors opened with rockets- that damagable place shows and the intresting - it shows the "first floor" (so when you inside the second floor - you see black tiles). Maybe looking intresting bag with leyers in vanila yeah-))

And + there reaction fire from the second flour to 1st. - aliens do see my soldiers and they dosn't

[kabill]

Unless there's some missing details, the reaction fire is working as intended.

Not sure what's going on with the display, though. Do you have screenshots? I might be able to get a better idea what's going on that way.

@Spudcosmic: it could happen, maybe. Depends on whether I get the time.

[Seafireliv]

Thanks for the Mod. excellent work.

[jonthan]

Thanks Kabill

[silencer]

Kabill, I think you will need to update FitH to latest patch - I think 1.08HF went live? After patching I've launched the game and after equipping breaching charge it vanished. However re-installing FitH made it working again, so I assume some files have been changed.

[kabill]

It's the Reaper reaction modifier change (it effects weapons_gc). It's not a major issue; I'm hoping for an update soonish on XCE so I can proceed with modularisation (functionality of weapons_gc merging is literally all I'm waiting for now, although I might quickly test it with what llunak suggested in case it is actually working and I was just screwing it up).

[kabill]

UPDATE (FINALLY!): A new version has been uploaded which works *only* with the Community Edition mod v0.25+.

There are no other changes - I'm hoping to have the weekend free to do a thorough test and get a feel for if anything else needs altering.

However, aside from the compatibility with XCE v0.25, the mod also mostly uses the mod loading function which means that most compatibility issues are overcome. THIS EXCLUDES MODS WHICH ADD OR ALTER WEAPONS. This is because the mod loader currently doesn't work for weapons_gc. Hopefully that will be fixed in the future. Mods which alter the _BaseBuilt LUA script will also have issues, but since all that does in this mod is add in the Breaching Charge xenopedia entry, you can sub this out for other mods if necessary.

[kabill]

Also please change Corvette It's too frustrating with the aliens opening doors two tiles away and the corridors are tighter than virgins....

So, having finally had some time to play: oh god, yes, these need changing. They're *horrendous*.

Generally - although I've only got as far as Corvettes - I think I need to return to the opening-out project. Not to make the UFOs more challenging, but less. With the ability to open doors, the UFOs are more or less a crap-shoot and I'm struggling to think of any tactics you might use to not die horribly. Shields might help, but I hate shields and I don't think the game should force you to use them.

So, going to have a look at the designs again.

[silencer]

I've sort of learned the pattern of aliens. Once you do that it's quite easier to do the job, but there are some occasions that aliens do something different.

I'm glad you finally could see for yourself that something needs to be changed.

You could also help yourself with 2 rocket launchers and going through the main entrance. Just have a runner open fist two doors and then blast the corridor so there will be no walls. The only problem is you need soldiers with lots of TUs. 60+ at least to feel some comfort.

[Seafireliv]

It`s almost suicidal. However, getting one guy to open the door, throw a flash bang the someone run in with the shotty gets some results. however, you are almost guaranteed to lose at least one person no matter how skilled you are- Much of it is almost luck (like hoping the Alien misses).

The destructable Mod certainly makes it easier. In one case I just manouevered my Scout vehicle behind the Saucer and shot through an opening on the waiting Aliens, saving my men from trying a frontal breach.

Oh yea and shields are pretty much a must.

[kabill]

Update: I have added to the OP an *optional* experimental patch which installs over the mod. It contains revised UFO interior maps for light scout, scout, corvette, landing ship and cruiser (NOT carrier or battleship).

I would be very grateful if people would try these new interior maps and give feedback here. Assuming they're well-received, I will be looking to roll them out as standard. However, I will probably keep the old submaps as well so people can choose which version they want (or combine them all together for added UFO variety).

Please note that I've not done any iterations of them yet (i.e. have not done destroyed interiors, hull damage etc.). Doing this takes a lot of work and there's no point doing it until I'm finalised on the design. Also, the patch currently uses damaged UFO submaps for landed UFOs. This means you won't get extra resources from doing landed UFO missions, but they're pretty rare anyway. Obviously, I will be correcting that for the final version, but again it's not worth the trouble until the designs are pinned down.

For reference, here's some images of the new interiors:

Light Scout:

Scout:

Corvette:

Landing Ship (Bottom):

Landing Ship (Top):

Cruiser (Bottom):

Cruiser (Top):

I'm a little unhappy with the Scout: I couldn't find a way to make interior partitions work at all in the main section so I decided to leave it all open-plan instead. This might end up being rubbish, but there is the back room too which might make it ok. Also, the interior is a bit wider than in vanilla, so hopefully it should be more difficult to suppress everything in one go. And aliens seem to do a good job of camping by the exterior door now, which makes a frontal approach more dangerous anyway.

Other than that, I'm hoping these should all be a lot better than the existing FitH maps. Using hull breaching should be very useful with the Corvette and Landing Ship to avoid the main-entrance deathtrap, while in the Cruiser your troops are funneled into thin corridors unless you use hull breaches or destroy the centre-door (this is locked, as in the original FitH Cruiser map).

Edited July 20, 2014 by kabill

[silencer]

I will do it during this week but It probably will be corvettes and landings ships. From the looks of the Corvette it should be generally OK, but I'm not sure I like the middle room.

Also I don't see the reactor in the scout.

Ah and something I wanted to say but kept forgetting.

- Fire inside the UFO cannot be moved through unless you are wearing Predator armour (if it's working as I think it should; I've not tested this!)

This is not entirely true. You can move through fire, but your fist action must be to step into fire. When wearing Wolf / Jackal armour be prepared to take some damage, but Wolf can resist the damage. Then you can move further where you want to go.

Edited July 20, 2014 by silencer

[kabill]

I will do it during this week but It probably will be corvettes and landings ships. From the looks of the Corvette it should be generally OK, but I'm not sure I like the middle room.

What's your issue with the middle room?

Also I don't see the reactor in the scout.

Yeah, just did a Scout mission and noticed that! D'oh.

EDIT: I've just uploaded a new version with this fixed.

This is not entirely true. You can move through fire, but your fist action must be to step into fire. When wearing Wolf / Jackal armour be prepared to take some damage, but Wolf can resist the damage. Then you can move further where you want to go.

It's not clear, but that specific comment is referring to the fire that's been placed manually on the map. There's no way to place props which do damage, so I had to opt simply for making it impassible instead. It's inconsistent with 'real' fire, but it should make almost no difference.

Edited July 20, 2014 by kabill

[silencer]

What's your issue with the middle room?

It's hard to explain. It just feels not right, as if the room is there just to be there, rather than serve a purpose if you know what I mean. But then again I may be blabbering.

It's not clear, but that specific comment is referring to the fire that's been placed manually on the map. There's no way to place props which do damage, so I had to opt simply for making it impassible instead. It's inconsistent with 'real' fire, but it should make almost no difference.

Oh, then silly me.

[kabill]

It's hard to explain. It just feels not right, as if the room is there just to be there, rather than serve a purpose if you know what I mean. But then again I may be blabbering.

Well that's true, in a sense: all the rooms are there just to be there from a game design perspective!

But seriously, I understand what you mean even though I'm not sure I feel the same way. Out of wonder, do you feel the same way about the alternative vanilla Corvette map, as the design I've used is quite similar to that?

Oh, then silly me.

As I say, it wasn't very clear.

--

I've been able to test both the light scout and scout and I'm fairly happy with them so far. The light scout is fine, I think, and I'm not sure there's any way I could realistically make it better given its constraints. The scout also did a good job of impressing me, considering I wasn't especially keen on it. The cover positions seem to spread the aliens out enough that you can't easily suppress them in one go, making a flank-attack from one of the hull breaches useful.

One thing I've not seen, though, is aliens camping at the UFO doors. They were doing this a lot with the default FitH UFOs (especially scouts) but I've not seen it at all using the new maps. Don't know if this is chance or because of the revised designs (I guess there aren't a lot of good places to be in the default FitH scout!), but it's a shame as it made frontal approaches more difficult and made hull breaching more valuable.

[silencer]

Well that's true, in a sense: all the rooms are there just to be there from a game design perspective!

But seriously, I understand what you mean even though I'm not sure I feel the same way. Out of wonder, do you feel the same way about the alternative vanilla Corvette map, as the design I've used is quite similar to that?

Well, they do in some kind of sense. For example if you look on Landingship. The main area is storage, which is understandable, next you have thrusters rooms on sides and engine room on the back. On the upper floor you have big command room, and a room that overesses the storage. So Everything is in order - though I worry about those holes, but will see, once I've play it.

The Cruiser also has rooms that have roles.

About the alt Corvette. I don't remember the layout and I don't know how to use submap editor.

[Rider]

In landing ship entry hall, Xenos can shoot you from first floor and you cant see them, I dont know if that was intention but its really frustrating and Im using experimental patch

[kabill]

It's intentional in so far as there is a gap in the floor designed to allow aliens to attack you from above. It's not intentional that you can't see up there from the ground floor, however. There's nothing I can do to fix this short of removing the gap, however, as it's a bug with the LoS system (it happens in other places in the game as well).

For what it's worth, there's plenty of ways you can mitigate/avoid the cargo bay entirely (breaching any of the vulnerable hull sections will do; assuming you're not fighting Sebs you can use smoke while you're in the cargo bay; or you could deploy a tank to draw fire). Also, if you can get vision on the upper floor (e.g. using a soldier with Buzzard armour), you should be able to shoot with other soldiers as normal.

(Also for what it's worth, a small part of me is wondering about removing the gap. I really, really like it, but due to the LoS issue it does cause some problems. It might also be responsible for other issues I've had with the Landing Ship too.)

[silencer]

I would do that Kabill. It may look nice, but if you are "forcing" player to avoid it, then what is the purpose of that room ?