[v22.7 - Ground Combat] Possible accuracy bug, bullets hitting ground too often

[legit1337]

I'm really not sure if this is a bug or not. It seems to me though that in the current experimental that bullets tend to hit the ground short of their target too often. This is totally anecdotal, but I had a trooper crouched behind some rocks 3 squares away from an enemy in the wide open, and he missed every single burst shot FOUR turns in a row, the bullets ALWAYS impacted in the square in front of the alien.

I also sometimes hit friendlies crouched directly in front of the shooter.

Edited May 5, 2014 by legit1337

[Skitso]

Yes, it seems like there is a new accuracy bug in the game indeed. I've had many similar issues of bullets not flying anywhere near where I have aimed.

The same (or similar) issue is reported earlier by kabill here

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/9891-v22-6-Exp-GC-Vanishing-Bullets

Edited May 5, 2014 by Skitso

[Lorebot]

This may or may not be a bug depending on how the game actually calculates if a shot hits.

I'm not sure how Xenonauts is programmed, but in other games that I've toyed with they try to lighten the processing load by doing the shortest calculations first and only doing the rest if it's needed. So it's usually 'does the shot hit?' if yes do damage, if no determine if the shot hit something else, if yes do damage, if no determine shot location and do damage. If Xenonauts is doing something similar then anything that you see hitting the ground was already determined to have missed any viable target and it's not extremely important where the shot is going.

[Skitso]

No, this has worked fine before the large changes in how the line of sight is calculated. (To allow better shooting around corners)

[Caaygun]

As for the vanishing bug, I've had it happen a few times in the past, but it is really noticable for these past 2 builds. Also, Ufo door seems to block much too often, especially for aliens. Yet also, shooting over adjacent cover or crouched units seems to produce risky results now.

[Guyver]

i'm not really sure, but the aliens seems to hit more often crouched units than before, while i keeping firing on my feet.

[legit1337]

i'm not really sure, but the aliens seems to hit more often crouched units than before, while i keeping firing on my feet.

That is what i have been noticing too.

[Chris]

So all that's changed recently is the formula for calculating where "miss" shots go, so soldiers aren't actually missing any more often.

We made a change so you no longer hit the floor at the feet of the alien being targeted, but it may well be causing some strange bullet impact locations. What are the strangest results you've had?

[kabill]

So all that's changed recently is the formula for calculating where "miss" shots go, so soldiers aren't actually missing any more often.

We made a change so you no longer hit the floor at the feet of the alien being targeted, but it may well be causing some strange bullet impact locations. What are the strangest results you've had?

I've had bullets land at the feet of the unit shooting them, in instances where the target is quite far away. I've also had bullets seemingly disappear, but that might be the same thing and I'm just missing the impact animation or something.

For what it's worth, as well, it feels like most misses are falling short of their intended targets at the moment, as opposed to (say) shooting past or to the side of the intended target. This might be intentional, but it gives the feeling that everyone's aiming very low and seems a bit odd, aesthetically.

[Skitso]

Yeah, bullets seem to fall short (at times, really short!) rather than flying past the target, which looks kinda odd.

Strangest results are a caesan standing in a doorway shooting 2 bursts where every bullet hit the door frame and my sniper shooting a distant target where bullet hit the adjacent tile from him.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Skitso

[Caaygun]

I'm noticing weapons not producing any visible projectiles despite properly playing the shoot animation. This is by far the most awkward error for me, it feels like the engine somehow evaporated a shot between code, as there is no visual indication of a projectile flying. The rest is legit I think now that Chris says they are legitimate missed shots in engine, though got quite more noticeable with this latest mechanic. Also as the other posters said, bullets hitting the shooter's feet really look weird. They would be visually expected to at least fly at least most of the distance to the target in open terrain.

[legit1337]

For what it's worth, as well, it feels like most misses are falling short of their intended targets at the moment, as opposed to (say) shooting past or to the side of the intended target. This might be intentional, but it gives the feeling that everyone's aiming very low and seems a bit odd, aesthetically.

Exactly!

[Caaygun]

[ATTACH]3582[/ATTACH]

I think I got a save for it.

Load the save. Just attack the cornered alien with the guys around it. They miss more than %90 despite firing with hit chances around 70%, more often than not with the disappearing bullet event.

And also, shooting over adjacent crouched friendly troops is clearly no longer safe against this particular alien.

GC 1.sav

GC 1.sav

[Guyver]

it's like a bunch of stupid rookies firing on their feet, because they didn't have any training whatsoever with any weapons.

quite hilarious until aliens snipe 2-3 of your soldiers because of this.

[UmberSkies]

So all that's changed recently is the formula for calculating where "miss" shots go, so soldiers aren't actually missing any more often.

We made a change so you no longer hit the floor at the feet of the alien being targeted, but it may well be causing some strange bullet impact locations. What are the strangest results you've had?

I have also experienced the bullets hitting ground bug, but it seems to be rather difficult to reproduce. It only seems to happen on high chance to hit shots. Also, if the shot is a burst, then every bullet will impact the exact same spot at the aliens feet. The worst display of this was with a machine gunner with an 82% x 10 shot. Every bullet missed (extremely low chance of occurrence) and every bullet struck the same spot one tile in front of the soldier. I am currently trying to reproduce this bug and will upload a save as soon as I can.

Also adding my voice to those saying shooting over crouched soldiers is unsafe, due to this ^

Edited May 6, 2014 by UmberSkies

[Chris]

Great save, Caaygun. There is actually a bug in the game then - if you run the shots from the soldier directly south of the Sebillian through the debugger, it gives you this:

[8084] chanceToHitTargetTile (0.000) = (unitAccuracy (62.400) * crouchingTargetMul (0.750) + shortRangeHitBonus (28.733)) * terrainAccuracy (0.000)

For some reason, despite the 76% being displayed on the cursor, everything is being multiplied by the terrainAccuracy value of 0. So the chance to hit there is indeed 0%.

[Skitso]

Thanks Caaygun, great to have this solved! These kinds of bugs always haunt me if there's no obvious reason for it. Chris probably agrees on this (the high probability hit missing I insisted being in the game for ages)

Hope you can have missed bullets to go past the target too. Just a visual issue, but would make the shooting feel a lot better and also make the scenery break more.

[Caaygun]

For some reason, despite the 76% being displayed on the cursor, everything is being multiplied by the terrainAccuracy value of 0. So the chance to hit there is indeed 0%.

I actually managed to hit him with that soldier a couple times during the testing reload-iterations I made; very rare, but I guess then missing shots are capable of landing on a tile (and the unit in it) and cause damage. Just an idea but, this may also perhaps be the issue we're getting with sometimes hitting our crouched soldiers the shooter is standing adjacent to. It was totally safe a few builds ago like the tip of the day before battle claimed.

[legit1337]

I actually managed to hit him with that soldier a couple times during the testing reload-iterations I made; very rare, but I guess then missing shots are capable of landing on a tile (and the unit in it) and cause damage. Just an idea but, this may also perhaps be the issue we're getting with sometimes hitting our crouched soldiers the shooter is standing adjacent to. It was totally safe a few builds ago like the tip of the day before battle claimed.

Yes this is annoying.

[Skitso]

I just experienced a similar phantom alien too. Quite annoying I'd say...

[Caaygun]

I'm getting the feeling that this real accuracy not being reflected by cursor accuracy type of bug is still remaining in the hotfixed 22.7 to some extent. Though it could just my really bad day with persistent unlucky rolls.

Apart from that I'm getting occasional untargettable aliens now on top of whom I can even walk. It resolves upon saving and loading but one of them caused persistent CTD so I reported it. This issue is becoming like a rigged game of whack-a-mole where when you whack one with your hammer, two others pop up instead to haunt you.

[kabill]

I'm getting the feeling that this real accuracy not being reflected by cursor accuracy type of bug is still remaining in the hotfixed 22.7 to some extent. Though it could just my really bad day with persistent unlucky rolls.

I posted this elsewhere, but it should probably have gone here instead. The feeling I've got (it's not more than that, mind) is that the displayed line of fire is using the new targeting system, but the actual bullet trajectory isn't. That would cohere with the debug output Chris posted above (the 0% terrain modifier being the blocking chance of the prop which is - but shouldn't be - in the way of the shot). Certainly, when I tried out the save posted above, I was taking 95% shots with the soldier just around the corner from the Sebillian and every single one of them hit the giant rock instead, as if it was trying to path through it.

[Skitso]

I'm getting the feeling that this real accuracy not being reflected by cursor accuracy type of bug is still remaining in the hotfixed 22.7 to some extent.

This bug is most definitely not fixed in the latest build.

I was taking 95% shots with the soldier just around the corner from the Sebillian and every single one of them hit the giant rock instead, as if it was trying to path through it.

I've had a similar experience but other way around. I had a caesan standing in a doorway shooting clear line of sight bursts to my guy maybe 5 tiles away. All the bullets hit the door frame for multiple turns as if the bullets flew different path than what the caesan tried to shoot.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Skitso

[UmberSkies]

Adding my voice to the kneeling soldiers not being safe crowd. (Thanks Legit )

If I have a soldier kneeling with a machine gun right behind him, the kneeling soldier typically gets hit by at least 1 bullet of the MG's burst, although I have lost a soldier when he got hit by 4 shots in a row.

[legit1337]

I posted this elsewhere, but it should probably have gone here instead. The feeling I've got (it's not more than that, mind) is that the displayed line of fire is using the new targeting system, but the actual bullet trajectory isn't. That would cohere with the debug output Chris posted above (the 0% terrain modifier being the blocking chance of the prop which is - but shouldn't be - in the way of the shot). Certainly, when I tried out the save posted above, I was taking 95% shots with the soldier just around the corner from the Sebillian and every single one of them hit the giant rock instead, as if it was trying to path through it.

I have done some testing and this hypothesis seems to fit what I have seen. Somehow the bullet pathing is messed up. With the new formula for drawing the "best" line to target, on top of the new bullet deviation system that changes where "misses" go something is definitely wonky with the hit percentages.