Chris Posted May 5, 2014 Author Share Posted May 5, 2014 Thanks for letting us know about the cover bug. I've sent that off the be fixed, along with the stairs bug. We'll look into the UFOs generating funding bonuses too. I'll also ask for the programmer to make the fog of war alpha customisable, so we can experiment with lightening it up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gijs-Jan Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Funnily enough, the value calculations weren't the big problem. The primary problem is the path calculation. It is the major bottleneck as the pathing system wasn't designed with heavy AI use in mind. Especially pathing to a location which was ultimately unreachable had a high cost; which the AI now has added checks for to exclude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashery Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Also, air combat autoresolve seems to have, at least in some situations, swung a bit too far in favor of the alien ships. I've had Foxtrot squadrons take significant damage (Down to 10-30% hp, which means being grounded for a couple days) when dealing with non-dodging UFOs that they can take down in a single torpedo volley (One Fox vs a Scout and two vs a Corvette). The fights are quick and easy so it's not a huge issue, but I figured I'd bring it to your attention in case it hasn't already been mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandre Lange Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) Hi, guys. As I am new to Xenonauts and I know little about the mechanics, so I am a terrible bug/unbalance catcher. So far, I was playing v22.7 and, as I haven't the crouching bug anymore, everything was perfect to me. I don't even notice the bugs people are talking about. Thus, my points are more questions then anything else. If anyone can answer, have my thanks. 1- Should balistic weapons be more precise then lasers? I am specially suspicious about the balistic assault rifle: it seems to be more accurate at long distances then the sniper rifle. In a particular situation I brought a rookie to a crash site and I forgot to equip him properly. All my guys was using lasers and armor, but the rookie had only a balistic assault rifle. I left him behind, safe at the trasport. Later in the mission, when my sniper (with a laser sniper rifle) spoted an alien at distance, missed him with something like 70% hit chance and had no TUs to take cover, I was desperately trying to find a way out when I realize that my rookie at the transport had LOS for the shot. Without hope, givin the target's distance (double the sniper's), I point the cursor over the alien and get a 84%. I kill it within miles away with one aimed (84%) and another snap (50%+). It don't seems right to me. 2- Should pistols and rifles have same damage? I was suspicious about the laser pistol damage (my Shield guy killed more aliens in one shot then my Assault, doing 50-70 damage per shot with his laser pistol), so I did open the weapons_gc.xlm to find the same damage for balistics pistol and rifle (30), and also the same damage for lasers pistol and rifle (45). Is that right? Range and burst for rifles are the only differences between lasers and rifles? NOTE: I have changed the balistics bullet speed from 1000 to 2000, as I read that the change has only visual effect. 3- How could I make sure that the same portrait don't shows for two different guys in my squad? I don't think that fire a good soldier right after recruit him because I already have a lost twin of him in my squad is a good alternative. Thanks, guys! Edited May 5, 2014 by Alexandre Lange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 1- Should balistic weapons be more precise then lasers? I am specially suspicious about the balistic assault rifle: it seems to be more accurate at long distances then the sniper rifle. In a particular situation I brought a rookie to a crash site and I forgot to equip him properly. All my guys was using lasers and armor, but the rookie had only a balistic assault rifle. I left him behind, safe at the trasport. Later in the mission, when my sniper (with a laser sniper rifle) spoted an alien at distance, missed him with something like 70% hit chance and had no TUs to take cover, I was desperately trying to find a way out when I realize that my rookie at the transport had LOS for the shot. Without hope, givin the target's distance (double the sniper's), I point the cursor over the alien and get a 84%. I kill it within miles away with one aimed (84%) and another snap (50%+). It don't seems right to me.2- Should pistols and rifles have same damage? I was suspicious about the laser pistol damage (my Shield guy killed more aliens in one shot then my Assault, doing 50-70 damage per shot with his laser pistol), so I did open the weapons_gc.xlm to find the same damage for balistics pistol and rifle (30), aND also the same damage for lasers pistol and rifle (45). Is that right? Range and burst for rifles are the only differences between lasers and rifles? NOTE: I have changed the balistics bullet speed from 1000 to 2000, as I read that the change has only visual effect. 3- How could I make sure that the same portrait don't shows for two different guys in my squad? I don't think that fire a good soldier right after recruit him because I already have a lost twin of him in my squad is a good alternative. Thanks, guys! Unless number 1 is a bug, then the reason for the difference will just be the relative accuracy values of the two soldiers. Soldiers can have quite a significant spread in terms of their stats, so it's plausible that a rookie with a high roll could be better than a veteran with a low roll. Otherwise, the precision rifle has a higher accuracy modifier than the assault rifle. For point 2, range and burst fire actually make quite a large difference. Especially the range, since that matters no only for accuracy but whether you can suppress targets. Point 3 is probably impossible. I think there's a mod pack somewhere that has loads of extra portraits, though. (Don't know if it's updated and compatable with recent builds, mind). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorebot Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 If anyone wants to check out there 0% to hit bug here's a save for you: [ATTACH]3580[/ATTACH] 0 to hit in wheat.sav 0 to hit in wheat.sav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandre Lange Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Unless number 1 is a bug, then the reason for the difference will just be the relative accuracy values of the two soldiers. Soldiers can have quite a significant spread in terms of their stats, so it's plausible that a rookie with a high roll could be better than a veteran with a low roll. Otherwise, the precision rifle has a higher accuracy modifier than the assault rifle It is not the case here. I tweaked the config file to generate more balanced soldiers (stats range 40-55 instead of original 35-65), and the sniper at the picture is a good one, high accuracy (he was selected as sniper because of it), high rank. The rookie is average. For point 2, range and burst fire actually make quite a large difference. Especially the range, since that matters no only for accuracy but whether you can suppress targets. Rifles are way more deadly then pistols, givin it's projectile speed, shape and mass. Range and burst fire ARE big differences, yes, but there are another important ones. Anyway, it is a game, right? Just to make sure things are supposed to work like this. I will give my pistol guy license to kill that much, so. Point 3 is probably impossible. I think there's a mod pack somewhere that has loads of extra portraits, though. (Don't know if it's updated and compatable with recent builds, mind). Yeah, I saw the mod and I am using the portraits, but I think that there is a config portion of it that the guy are waiting for the final release of the game to update, so until it comes we have some twins. I was optimistic that anyone here knew what to change, so I could make it myself. Thanks for the answers, kabill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorebot Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Rifles are way more deadly then pistols, givin it's projectile speed, shape and mass. Range and burst fire ARE big differences, yes, but there are another important ones. Anyway, it is a game, right? Just to make sure things are supposed to work like this. I will give my pistol guy license to kill that much, so. As a shooter and a gunsmith I can tell you that most large pistols are just as deadly, if not more so, than an assault rifle in close range. Most assault rifles fire 5.56mm or .223 rounds which usually have less mass than a .45 or a .50 and rifle rounds are usually pointed and jacketed so they tend to penetrate the target intact instead of mushroom or fragment like a hollow point or round nose pistol slug will. The rifle rounds have more velocity to make up for the difference in mass and they will perform better against an armored target at any range because the higher velocity and their shape makes them better at penetrating. My .45 1911 would probably do more damage to an unarmored target at 20ft than my 5.56mm AR-15 would with a single shot. The rifle's advantages are that it will continue to hit a target effectively out to 200 or 300ft while the maximum effective range of my 1911 is probably 50 to 100ft and that the rifle can be fired in burst or full auto putting 3-6 rounds to the target in the time it takes to fire the pistol twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandre Lange Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 It makes sense. And as it comes from a guy that actually use guns (and has tecnical information about it), I cannot argue. The rifle 'power' should translates into armor mitigation, so. I will take a look at the files, but I think it already have proper values. The more I mess with things here, the more I respect the work of the DEVs and fear the players... (damn, you really have a Colt 45 and an AR-15 at home??? I would be put in jail for live if I had anything but a .38 pistol/revolver here!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranak Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Armor penetration in Xenonauts is actually kind of meaningless since only Androns and your troops have armor. Knowing that alien sniper rifles have 99 armor penetration is useful though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malthus Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Does anyone else dislike the new funding screen? Not only was its predecessor easier to overlook and with continent images more apealing to the eye. The new one made the worst mistake it could have done. The only eyecatcher of its backroundpicture was maimed. Those generals or whatever they are are pretty meaningless to me, but this secretary behind them gave this whole picture a realy nice atmosphere now the picture is tiny and her face is cut off. This was the best part of the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caaygun Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I also agree the previous one was better. It added atmosphere to the game with the fullscreen display of the scene. The continent images were easily cueing the eye to the continents than the listing now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorebot Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I made a comment on the new funding screen yesterday. I also prefer the previous version. The new version has some extra info on it, but it's info that's mostly meaningless or that could easily be displayed in the old one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) As a shooter and a gunsmith I can tell you that most large pistols are just as deadly, if not more so, than an assault rifle in close range.I disagree with this. If you compare the survival rate of rifle victims with pistol victims you'll find that pistol victims survive very often, while rifle victims usually die. I can look up the stats for you, but I can tell you that a pistol nearly always has to hit a vital spot to kill the victim while rifles can kill you with just about any hit except the feet and hands. Of course, a lot of this depends on how long it takes to get aid, but it is generally true. BTW, I'm also I shooter, and I can tell you that the amount of damage a rifle (except for very small calibers, .22, .177, etc...) will do is much much more than any "normal" pistol I've seen. The only thing I've seen that is close is a .44 magnum pistol and even that pales in comparision to a .30 - 06 or .308 rifle (which can split the trunk of a small tree.) Obviously, there are some wild .50 pistols, etc... but nothing the military uses. Obviously, we're not out shooting people or aliens, so my experiences are only with inanimate objects. I know you're a shooter and gunsmith, but those are my personal observations anyway. Edited May 5, 2014 by StellarRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorebot Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I disagree with this. If you compare the survival rate of rifle victims with pistol victims you'll find that pistol victims survive very often, while rifle victims usually die. I can look up the stats for you, but I can tell you that a pistol nearly always has to hit a vital spot to kill the victim while rifles can kill you with just about any hit except the feet and hands. Of course, a lot of this depends on how long it takes to get aid, but it is generally true. BTW, I'm also I shooter, and I can tell you that the amount of damage a rifle (except for very small calibers, .22, .177, etc...) will do is much much more than any "normal" pistol I've seen. The only thing I've seen that is close is a .44 magnum pistol and even that pales in comparision to a .30 - 06 or .308 rifle (which can split the trunk of a small tree.) Obviously, there are some wild .50 pistols, etc... but nothing the military uses. I know you're a shooter and gunsmith, but those are my personal observations anyway. You're not wrong, I was trying to limit the discussion to pistols and automatic rifles similar to what's used in the game. I have a .308 and it does way more damage at any range than my .45 does, but it's also a bolt action hunting rifle not an automatic weapon. I know there are automatic rifles out there that shoot stuff larger than 5.56mm/.223 but they've become less commonly seen in military use (at least in NATO aligned countries). As for pistols in military use, the M9(also known as the Barretta 92f) is a popular pistol used around the world and is usually seen in 9mm (which isn't near as powerful as .45acp) but recently the US armed forces have started putting the 1911 back in service because it's .45 round has far greater stopping power than the 9mm. I'll take some photos next time I go to the range if you want. There are a lot of different targets I shoot, but my favorite for demonstrating what sort of damage a round will do to a living target is an old waterlogged phonebook. And the holes my .45 will put in a wet phonebook are usually much larger than the holes my 5.56mm will put in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 You're not wrong, I was trying to limit the discussion to pistols and automatic rifles similar to what's used in the game. I have a .308 and it does way more damage at any range than my .45 does, but it's also a bolt action hunting rifle not an automatic weapon. I know there are automatic rifles out there that shoot stuff larger than 5.56mm/.223 but they've become less commonly seen in military use (at least in NATO aligned countries). As for pistols in military use, the M9(also known as the Barretta 92f) is a popular pistol used around the world and is usually seen in 9mm (which isn't near as powerful as .45acp) but recently the US armed forces have started putting the 1911 back in service because it's .45 round has far greater stopping power than the 9mm.I'll take some photos next time I go to the range if you want. There are a lot of different targets I shoot, but my favorite for demonstrating what sort of damage a round will do to a living target is an old waterlogged phonebook. And the holes my .45 will put in a wet phonebook are usually much larger than the holes my 5.56mm will put in it. Well, we usually use hollow points and cans and jugs full of water. I could definitely see a bigger hole from .45 on a wet phone book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorebot Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I just noticed that once I take the .30 cal machinegun off the Hunter Scout car I'm not able to put it back on. I know there was a change recently that made us not have to build the upgraded turrets once they're researched, did this maybe have the unexpected effect of making all the other turrets infinite and not the .30 cal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drizzt99 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Hi, I've found a bug in the field area. When an alien (or a xenonaut) are in a corn (or wheat) field, they are invulnerable, meaning trying to hit them always has 0% chance to hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorebot Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I posted a save to illustrate that yesterday. It happens any time a unit stands next to a destroyed prop. So walls, doors, wheat, even the new 'crushable grass' does it. Thankfully it works against the aliens as much as it works against us...I've had some fun abusing it since I figured it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drizzt99 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I posted a save to illustrate that yesterday. It happens any time a unit stands next to a destroyed prop. So walls, doors, wheat, even the new 'crushable grass' does it. Thankfully it works against the aliens as much as it works against us...I've had some fun abusing it since I figured it out Well... since I'm playing "ironman", it freaked me out a bit, since the game was getting along so fine. I really love the realistic gaming here. It's so fun to see how the game evolved to something so awesome! Sometimes, bugs are part of the fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Thanks for the update. After some test I notice that accuracy calculations have been changed, now proyectiles follow the % exactly as espected. Can you tell me whats change and the meaning oe function of new "intervening" line in config.xml? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpelectric Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 As a minor side note, I personally like the increase in wound damage to 5HP per wound/turn. Before I could ignore bleeding until a firefight was over, then attend to it. Now I'm being forced to bandage right away, which seems to me more "realistic" than a soldier paying no attention to bleeding all over the place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domein Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 It would be better to have different bleeds in 1-5 range, depending on the damage sustained, so a minor bleeding could still be ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorebot Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I don't mind the 5 point bleed, but if you're gonna bleed for that much you should probably take a harder hit before bleeding. I recently increased the bleed threshold to 15 and it seems a bit more fair to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpelectric Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I didn't know there was a bleeding threshold. Yes, it would seem like your soldier should take that much damage (15) before significant blood loss occurred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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