New Mission End Screen (feedback / opinions welcome)!

[Chris]

There's two major UI screens still to be updated from V20, the month-end funding screen and the mission-end debrief screen. I've concepted up the mission-end screen and it can be viewed below. Comments are welcome, but please read the post before commenting:

This screen combines both the debrief screen and the soldier progression screen without actually reducing the information displayed. The removed lines from the debrief screens were either duplicates (you don't need a "civilians killed" AND a "civilians survived" line) or pointless information we originally put in just to fill space.

• The numbers on this concept are largely random, so please don't tell us that they don't add up etc.
  
• Same with formatting (and the screen frame graphics), if things aren't centred etc then save those comments for if it's actually misaligned / wrong in-game.
  
• This is a "worst case" screen, displaying pretty much every soldier status at once. This makes it very busy in terms of colour, but in most cases it won't be as bright.
  

You can view the image here: http://www.xenonauts.com/devimages/combat_debrief.jpg

[Gam]

I like it. Concise but not cluttered.

Gam

[Serker]

Not cluttered indeed, but, to be honest, I like old documentary look more. Also, awesome art at the background gone..

[Skitso]

Looks good, though I'd prefer the soldier bars to be a tad larger. Stat upgrades could also maybe be displayed like +STR 56 (with plus in front) to tell its actually an upgrade. Units with no upgrades could have somethibg there like "no stat gain". Dead people don't need their health displayed.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Skitso

[llunak]

I think the HP line shouldn't be there for dead soldiers - the value is obvious and redundant, and it'd also make it easier to see such soldiers in the list (the colors alone don't quite do it for me). Also (if it's not only because this is just a mockup) the stats should be still spelled completely if there's enough space, like in the current screen - not everybody knows outright what "RFL 55" is.

[Chris]

You're right, we probably don't need to display HP for the dead soldiers.

There's no space to write out all the stat names in full, though, and nor do I want to increase the size of the bars (without going into details, it affects almost everything else on the screen if you do that).

[Solver]

Can you make it visible by how much a stat was increased? This is my main beef with the current screen. That is, instead of showing "ACC 65", I would much rather have "ACC +2 (65)" or "ACC 65 (+2)", indicating that the soldier got 2 accuracy points.

I really like how alien corpses now do not say "destroyed", that was confusing.

[Gam]

Can you make it visible by how much a stat was increased? This is my main beef with the current screen. That is, instead of showing "ACC 65", I would much rather have "ACC +2 (65)" or "ACC 65 (+2)", indicating that the soldier got 2 accuracy points.

I agree, it would be good to know.

Gam

[Skitso]

Not directly related to this screen, but Chris, is there any possibilities to enlarge scrolling bars anymore? They are super tiny and hard to use for us who have laptops without mousewheel...

[Skitso]

Can you make it visible by how much a stat was increased? This is my main beef with the current screen. That is, instead of showing "ACC 65", I would much rather have "ACC +2 (65)" or "ACC 65 (+2)", indicating that the soldier got 2 accuracy points.

+1

[Chris]

Regarding the increase number as well as the new value, STAT +X (XX) was the format in the initial draft of the screen but it adds a lot more clutter and makes it much less readable...particularly if the soldier skills up three or more attributes in the same mission.

In the end we decided to remove it because of that, afraid you'll have trust us on this one.

[Solver]

I still have to disagree unfortunately.

The increase number is far more important than the new value. I'd even say if you can only show one, then show the increase. Why? Because it's literally the only opportunity to show it. I can view my soldier's current stats anytime after the mission. In two different screens, even. But I can never again see how much the stat increased from the mission, the mission-end screen is the only opportunity to show that information. And without it, the new stat is largely meaningless unless I remember the old stat values of my soldiers, which I don't.

I appreciate your point about clutter, but I don't think it's a valid reason not to show the one piece of information that can not be accessible anywhere else.

[Chris]

The increase isn't actually useful gameplay information though. If you had the choice of knowing one of your soldiers out of twelve got +2 accuracy, or his new accuracy score was 70 accuracy, which would you want to know? Do you know the stats of all of your soldiers in advance so that knowing the +2 is useful information? Without context it is meaningless; a soldier with +2 accuracy could be an awful shot or a brilliant one but you have no way of knowing.

Fundamentally, what matters is that your soldier has 70 accuracy rather than how they got there. What makes you think the new value is a meaningless stat?

[Solver]

The point is that absolute value of the stat is something I can view at any time. The soldier screen and the equip screen in my base show it. I can look through those scores for my next mission. The mission-end screen, as it is, shows this information the third time, while the increase is still not visible.

At the end of the mission, the absolute value lacks context. So my soldier now has 70 accuracy. Did he have 69 and so I now have a marginally improved soldier? Did he have 67 so that I now have a serious improvement? The overall score is important for my *next* mission, but when reviewing the just-finished mission, I want to know what I've gained from it. Just like I want to see that I gained 80k dollars, not that my total budget is now at 520k.

I also don't see why this is even an issue. Looking at your mockup, a soldier that increased in 4 stats takes up just under half of horizontal space. Meaning the new value and the increase can easily fit. Current display like "STR 64" is 6 characters. Adding " (+2)" is another 5. You won't fill the row even when soldiers increase in 4 stats.

[Chris]

Your soldiers can only increase either +1 or +2 in any stat per mission, so the difference is only ever going to be marginal tbh.

In terms of layout, there has to be space for three medals at the end of the row so if you add five characters to every stat level up, you start to overlap them on the fifth attribute and the sixth attribute goes slightly off the end of the blue tile. It really does affect readability too.

[Solver]

Well since you're doing experimental builds anyway, I would at least recommend showing the increase in one experimental build and seeing how others feel about that. It should be an easy change to make.

[vaultdweller]

The increase isn't actually useful gameplay information though. If you had the choice of knowing one of your soldiers out of twelve got +2 accuracy, or his new accuracy score was 70 accuracy, which would you want to know?

If that question was applied across the entirety of the game (as in, I only ever see changes, never absolute values), then I would agree with you, but at mission debriefing time I'd rather know the upgrades than the absolute value. I want to know what happened on the course of the mission. Conceptually, at least to my mind, the debriefing should be more of an income statement than a balance sheet. It is about showing the progression and state change. I want the debrief to show me the delta between my pre- and post-mission disposition, not the absolute values. It's the same reason I want to see the new medals awarded, not the full list of all medals in the squad, and the same reason I want to see my inflow of funds, not my new balance.

As solver notes, you can see the absolute value at any time back at the base... and I'll go further to add that you still need to do so, regardless of whether or not you see them in the debrief, unless you have a shockingly good memory. The absolute values are needed for planning your squad composition and loadouts, which you don't handle from the mission debriefing. I would argue that knowing the absolute values on this screen is not useful gameplay information, because I can't put it to use unless I memorize the numbers for later (and even then it's not that useful, because I potentially still have to compare soldier stats for the off-duty guys back at base).

[Chris]

It'd be interesting if people would post which they would prefer to be displayed, if there was only room for one - the updated stat, or the increase (so "ACC +1" or "ACC 67").

[Skitso]

I have to agree Solver here. On an end mission debriefing the earned goodies, wether its money, experience, alenium, whatever, it's more important what you gained by doing the mission than how much you have it in whole. And most importantly IT'S MORE REWARDING AND FEELS GOOD!

Edit: so: ACC: +1

Edited January 6, 2014 by Skitso

[Myrmuzduur]

Yeah I'm for seeing the +1 ACC as well.

[Solver]

Likewise, +1 ACC for me if only one can be shown. Again, the reason's simple. One, the summary screen should show the mission's earnings/benefits. Two, this is the only place to see that info, unlike the total value which is shown elsewhere.

[llunak]

There's no space to write out all the stat names in full, though, and nor do I want to increase the size of the bars (without going into details, it affects almost everything else on the screen if you do that).

I didn't ask for all the stat names to be in full, only when there's space for it. Like with the old (current) screen, where if two attributes improve, it spells them out, if six improve, it's shortened. I don't know if it's automatic for native speakers, but I'm not, and even though I have a lot of experience with English, seeing "ACC 60 RFL 55" for the first time would still get "huh?" from me, given that it's not labelled in any way (and you presumably don't want to waste space on that). Not that I wouldn't figure it out, but the code for this is already in anyway.

In terms of layout, there has to be space for three medals at the end of the row

Three? So it'll overlap if there will be more, which I think is possible (e.g. # of missions, # of kills, 5 aliens in one mission, wounded, special mission).

Edited January 6, 2014 by llunak

[thixotrop]

I prefer to see the changes of stats.

[vaultdweller]

I spoke my piece in favour of changes in stats already, but to make a quickly parsed vote:

+1 ACC

[Zoopah]

+1 ACC

Like said before : it's the fun factor. Seeing the actual increase gives a lot more satisfaction than a number you know you won't remember so don't look at anyway.