plucx Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I never said I wanted a start-up YOU-WIN tactical edge Thetuminator. Just pointing out how I had FUN (games are there for what?) with a Blaster Lauch to do that. (You could breach some outside wall in TFTD and UFO with He charges). Just pointing out that it is a great tool that bring flavor, imagery. another devil, well for sure a Torch would be lenghty, noisy and create a lot of light. Different thing with a charge but still. Walls of Xeno UFO are thicker than X-com UFO walls. Might need to dig trough several layers but i love this idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTuninator Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Probably would need to research alien alloys, plus then there is all the light of the welder, and the noise of the metal being forced open, plus the external sensors.Can it be used to get behind the aliens/split up their forces? Yes, but that's the point. But it can just as easily be held by the aliens on the inside as it can by you on the outside. Plus they still have grenades, and you can't close a breached wall... Yeah, I don't have a problem with it if the aliens inside can redeploy to match the breach; that's what I'm referring to when I say it will need to be "carefully balanced". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyllan Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 i would not ovrecomplicate things..... 1 turn burning a manhole to breach using 1 soldier should be enough, in reality if we want to make it "realistic" it would be a whole USA deployment 100s soldiers to breach an ufo with heavy explosives and missiles ...... not "xcom" but that is the reality, it would be more like a "world in conflict game" than small turn base squad........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Personally I'd prefere if breaching into a UFO would take more then 1 turn. preferebly 3-4 assuming double walls (and a control panel?), 2 for a regular house wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 don't forget that the other thing about breaching with a torch rather than a HE charge is that there is no chance of killing anything on the other side with a torch. With a big explosion... Different story! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucx Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Indeed, Imagine the scene, a late stage breach charge that blow up several squares in a V on the other side of the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyllan Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 don't forget that the other thing about breaching with a torch rather than a HE charge is that there is no chance of killing anything on the other side with a torch. With a big explosion... Different story! it could never happen....... alien ships are supposed to take missiles worth of damage...... classic x-com..... unless you enter one crashed with lots of holes........... which gives you a lot less salvage and we tend to avoid...... more or less...... till they land..... more elenium..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucx Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 You could blow up holes in UFO outer walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm not suggesting breaching charges for the purpose of "realism" and I don't know where you got that idea. I suggested them because, like I said in the post, it's a more active and exciting way of breaching UFOs than sitting on your ass for multiple turns blowtorching. A breaching charge is NOT an HE charge, otherwise I would've said "HE charge" when I suggested it. The HE charge wants to make a large and powerful area-effect explosion, where our breaching charge would be designed to be a directed explosion focusing its power onto the wall/door/obstacle in front of it. I see it as the player placing it in the right position and direction and being rewarded with 1 or at most 2 tiles in front of it being destroyed/damaged. For people discussing whether this would be too powerful for the earlygame but fine for the lategame - this could easily be tied to research with Alien Alloys/more powerful alien explosives and thus delayed until it would be suitably balanced in terms of game power. The charge/different explosives could also be designed to knock through inner walls but not outer UFO walls, much like how it worked in X-Com. Finally, a quick video which gives you an idea of what a breaching charge is in reality. Turn your sound down, the effect is quite percussive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 ok, well still can kill something standing behind that wall can't you? Don't know whether Chris will implement a breaching charge and a HE charge, but something like a blow torch where you have to defend for 2-3 turns, and the aliens have a chance to set up inside, that sounds a wee bit better to me. Plus it can still work because a) they may not set up in time, and b) even if they do, their defenders are now spread over 2 entrances instead of one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 My main breaching weapon is planned to be the flamethrower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 for 2-3 turns, and the aliens have a chance to set up inside, that sounds a wee bit better to me. This is a good point, I was thinking of the 2-3 turn delay only as the player having to defend, not that it would give the aliens more time to react. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but the UFO hulls will be indestructible. It's not feasible to make them destructible due to the amount of tiles that would be required to do it. Plus it also wouldn't make sense you need air-to-air missiles to shoot the damn thing down but then can crack it open with personal battlefield weapons... However we will be implementing C4 charges complete with timers like in X-Com. They'll go boom, and be good fun. Just like old times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Fantastic, thanks for letting us know. Very good to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTuninator Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ah, that's too bad, as I greatly enjoyed aerial insertions in the original X-COM. Still, it's something that I hope will be moddable, so I guess we'll have to see. Glad to hear that C4 is in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plucx Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'm ok with the outer hull of ufo being permanent. I can live with that. I guessed it would be a bit too much work and maybe too easy for the players. C-4 Charges, I love that idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If the hull is permanent what does that mean for the inner walls inside UFOs? since you mention the hull specificaly I assume we will be able to blow them up? Will they be more resistant then human built nviroment? will they require special equipment or will you be able to shoot them down with a shotgun or assult rifle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yes, you can destroy UFO interior walls just like in the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynait Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hello, interesting idea "welder kit". however I would not even mod a kit, point several problems this idea, therefore unrealastic. A) cutting alien alloys means knowing the interaction of "heat, gas-liquid compounds, etc", since aliens had access to plasma weaponry, I am sure they did develop or engineer their hulls resisting plasma. B) with thick steel (greater than 4inch) cutting consumes 2 tanks of oxy and 2 tanks of acyletene, cutting roughly 3 feet circular opening. and it does make popping sounds (molten iron hitting cold surface creates popping sounds). so sound do happen and lugging that much tanks... I would imagine soldiers giving his/her commander a 'yelling and quitting" attitude. C) if we use electrical for heat factor, then have you guys seen those arc or mig welders... 220 volts 15 amps???, you need generator or big power cords (i got mine rated for 15, and is only 25 feet, weighs 15 lbs!!!) I imagine mig/arc and generator would weigh 300 to 500 lbs, not counting fuel for generators. space hulls has withstand bending from vaccumm (interior is holding air pressure for alien to breathe) and heat (from atmospheric reeentry). Did you guys know space shuttle ceramic tiles resist heat in plasma range and is cast intentionally to size, thus avoding need to cut. Not even NASA have cutting kits for those ceramic tiles. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherdevil Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 A) probably would have to do some research to be able to cut alien alloys etc. B) and C) see 'A' as some alien tech might be really handy here Plus it'd only be for interior hulls anyway, so not as useful and may not make it in anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Did you guys know space shuttle ceramic tiles resist heat in plasma range and is cast intentionally to size, thus avoding need to cut. Not even NASA have cutting kits for those ceramic tiles. A hammer would work pretty well though - I think they're pretty brittle. But yes, I'm not a fan of the welding kit idea either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiga4ever Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So will there be any method to enter to UFO not using front door?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You could try one of the other doors? I'm sure most ships will have more than one. If crash damage is implemented as well then you could walk in through one of the holes your interceptors (or the ground) made for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiga4ever Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I know that ) I just thought about some weapon like Blaster in UFO 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I know that ) I just thought about some weapon like Blaster in UFO 1. I want to redirect you to this quote one page earlier in this very thread: Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but the UFO hulls will be indestructible. It's not feasible to make them destructible due to the amount of tiles that would be required to do it. Plus it also wouldn't make sense you need air-to-air missiles to shoot the damn thing down but then can crack it open with personal battlefield weapons... No, there will be no way to make your own entry into a UFO. Inside walls yes, but not through the outher walls into the UFO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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