Condor gameplay video

[Dranak]

I threw together another quick air combat video. No commentary added to it (I'm looking to eventually do a proper air combat tutorial), but I remembered to actually show my mouse this time so you can have a better view of what I'm actually doing. My play is a bit sloppy here, and I just showed a few early game engagements with starter weapons but the same tactics work later in the game if you keep your weapons upgraded.

Anyway, here it is.

[video=youtube_share;kbX77G9x2_c]

[Jsleezy]

Thank you very much for this. I always found air combat really really hard to the point where I thought I was just getting lucky if I shot the UFO down...turns out I've been doing it wrong all along.

[Skitso]

Nice!! I've taken the air combat as a light mini game, but it seems you really need to think what you do. Maybe even too much...?

[Jsleezy]

Question. How many planes do you leave at your base when taking out a UFO? Do you leave 1 just in case or take all of them?

[Snarks]

Makes me want to just scrap all my Foxtrots. They have no versatility compared to the Condors.

[GizmoGomez]

Makes me want to just scrap all my Foxtrots. They have no versatility compared to the Condors.

That's a problem; the Foxtrots are supposed to be the heavy hitters, and yet with the right maneuvering they are weaker than the condor, total damage wise. We need to double the torpedo damage, and double the HP of the non-evasive ships. This way, dogfighters have their niche in taking out the maneuverable ships, but can't deal nearly as much damage as foxtrots can to the larger ships. Also, foxtrots wouldn't be any more or less powerful than they are now compared to the larger ships, because the damage and the HP would have increased together.

[Xintrosi]

Enjoyed your video. I've always preferred Foxtrots over condors, but this video shows how 19 Stable makes that silly, and the condors slow down the foxtrots during patrol anyhow. Next game I'll have to save myself the 50k per plane and just go Condor heavy until Marauder.

[Dranak]

Question. How many planes do you leave at your base when taking out a UFO? Do you leave 1 just in case or take all of them?

Currently I have four Condors per base. I'm not entirely sure that's optimal, but it's what I have at the moment.

[Josip Broz Tito]

Dranak, again you prove why you're the authority on air combat. Very enlightening : )

[RyanZA]

That's a problem; the Foxtrots are supposed to be the heavy hitters, and yet with the right maneuvering they are weaker than the condor, total damage wise. We need to double the torpedo damage, and double the HP of the non-evasive ships. This way, dogfighters have their niche in taking out the maneuverable ships, but can't deal nearly as much damage as foxtrots can to the larger ships. Also, foxtrots wouldn't be any more or less powerful than they are now compared to the larger ships, because the damage and the HP would have increased together.

Wow, I think the UFO battles are hard enough as it is. Rather give the Foxtrots some extra missiles and leave the rest alone.

[Josip Broz Tito]

No.

[drohne1673]

nice gameplay. Nonetheless i just tried one foxtrott and one condor against a single corvette and i couldnt make enough damage to bring it down (i had to retreat due to ammo shortage). So do i have to pay attention to hit zones? i did not fire everything into the rear of that thing.

But my expectation was to bring it down as i did have the meant fighter (foxtrott) for the medium ship. I dont think its a good balance if the condor is superior even in firepower. In the current state it seems that the foxtrott is broken and you have to go for the mass condor approach right?

[crusherven]

Currently you have to send a foxtrot twice to get the kill.

[Dranak]

Off the top of my head I do not believe it is possible for one condor and one foxtrot to down a corvette with standard weapons, but it should be possible with alenium if the corvette chases the fox. Where you hit a UFO doesn't matter, but for it is generally a good idea to be somewhere the UFO can't hit you.

Mass condor is viable only if you're good with your aircraft control (they die too easily otherwise), but nowhere near necessary. While the damage output of condors may be roughly equal to foxtrots, I feel there are enough differences between both planes that they are viable. One thing I have come to believe is that condors and foxtrots are both more effective when operating separately from one another, as they have completely different strengths and combat styles.

[Xintrosi]

I like to have my Foxtrots launch missiles at max range and then kite the enemy for my condors to get into position. The superior speed of the foxtrot can guarantee that it won't be over taken in this task, and the superior range of their torps means that they're out of ammo anyway, so might as well get more use out of them. Just don't cut the corner too short, or you'll dip into range long enough to get shot at and there's no dodge option.

[drohne1673]

While the damage output of condors may be roughly equal to foxtrots

in the given video here it were 2 condors downing a corvette or did the third do anything else except the kiting? I had a foxtrott and a condor, it wasnt enough. Currently i have the feeling condors are much superior and cost less.

Whats the meant size of hangars for a base. At least 4 fighters i have the feeling.

[Dranak]

It's been a bit since I recorded that video and my phone isn't playing nice with youtube today, but downing a corvette with standard weapon condors would be done optimally with one kiting and two shooting. There'd be no real gain to putting a third one in harms way.

My comment on damage numbers comes from reading the xml files and adding up the damage outputs of varying weapon configs at different tech levels and seeing that condors and foxtrots are roughly equal if you continue to invest in cannon upgrades. The practical application of this is varies somewhat as condors have a harder time applying damage as a kiting foxtrot can still normally deliver it's full payload of damage, but a condor can not.

As for your particular scenario, no configuration of two condors/foxtrots can down a corvette with starter weapons. Since they don't spawn until two months into the game, the requirement for some sort of airupgrades (in tech or numbers) is fair. Three of anything with any weapons beat a corvette. Two foxes with alenium (normally unlocked before corvettes spawn) always beat a corvette, and a fox/condor pair can win if the fox is the kiter. Two condors can win, but they require both alenium warheads and laser cannons.

Condors are cheaper to buy, but they also require continued investment throughout the game to keep their cannons upgraded to keep them useful, which makes them pretty comparable in overall cost. Foxtrots also seem to become more valuable later in the game when we start seeing larger numbers of non_scout ufos. Overall I'd say pure condor is viable, but so would be a foxtrot heavy, you just have to adjust your style to aircraft choice (or vice versa).

[drohne1673]

thanks for the detailed explanation!

I did not have any upgrades, my science team run out of research possibilities some time ago, i wonder what i have to do to get back some options. Is there a techtree (research x requires y (like downed medium ufo etc.)) readme somewhere?. I tried to staff a lot of science but i wonder whether i had bad luck or which critical mission i was missing until then (played a bit longer than two months so far, started on my third base). Suddenly bases and corvettes showing up and i cant down them

[Dranak]

Alenium explosives (and other uses for it) are unlocked from assaulting a Scout. Scouts are probably the biggest tech bottlenecks in the game. They can spawn Sep 16, but i've seen many complaints of bad luck with having a metric asston of light scouts with few actual Scouts.

The researches can all be seen in one of the xml files (generally best read in excel or an equivalent). I want to say it's research.xml.