Why does Burst Fire cost so many TUs?

[RBrim08]

Thinking over it, I also came to realize that it's is nigh impossible to get someone who can fire off two aimed shots or two burst shots in this game. Xenonauts will die, unless you save scum like mad. Getting a unit from 50-60 to 80+ TUs would mean that they're someone who had survived nearly that many battles, which is extremely rare in a game like this, where a single shot can kill a guy.

[Tobbzn]

Thinking over it, I also came to realize that it's is nigh impossible to get someone who can fire off two aimed shots or two burst shots in this game. Xenonauts will die, unless you save scum like mad. Getting a unit from 50-60 to 80+ TUs would mean that they're someone who had survived nearly that many battles, which is extremely rare in a game like this, where a single shot can kill a guy.

Shields and armor on every soldier, rotate rookies as shield-dual-wielding scouts to preserve your elite squad, who cover with sniper rifles or rocket launchers.

[crusherven]

It's not that hard to keep snipers and heavies relatively safe.

[TrashMan]

Shields and armor on every soldier, rotate rookies as shield-dual-wielding scouts to preserve your elite squad, who cover with sniper rifles or rocket launchers.

That's a terrible idea.

Entire squad of pistols.

[Dranak]

Thinking over it, I also came to realize that it's is nigh impossible to get someone who can fire off two aimed shots or two burst shots in this game. Xenonauts will die, unless you save scum like mad. Getting a unit from 50-60 to 80+ TUs would mean that they're someone who had survived nearly that many battles, which is extremely rare in a game like this, where a single shot can kill a guy.

It's not that difficult to keep people alive. You'll have casualties, sure, but keeping the majority of your team alive (especially through the early game) is easy. Any soldier with Wolf armor is nearly death-proof versus any alien weapon except the heavy plasma, and snipers shouldn't ever really be getting shot at.

[Chris]

Mathematically in X-Com you should always burst fire if you can afford it. I didn't want that to be the case in Xenonauts, so the cost is higher per shot but the suppression damage is higher per TU than it is for an individual shot but the damage per TU spent is lower than a single shot. Or that's how it should work.

[maackey]

The increased damage for individual shots is definitely working as intended, but I find myself *never* using burst shots because I can't reliably suppress anything. Especially now that 2 of the 3 alien types I see most are either extremely resistant or completely immune to suppression altogether.

If I'm close enough for burst fire to be effective, I'm close enough to stun them with a stun rod -- which not only is more effective and safer, it gives me more points for increased funding.

There are a few instances where I'd use burst fire, namely if I'm close, don't have a stun rod or don't want to run out of cover, don't have any grenades or don't want to destroy equipment, if the alien is immune to everything else (looking at you, androns), and probably some others. Overall I think the cost vs. effectiveness is fine as is, but I wouldn't mind seeing just a *slight* buff, in either TU reduction, suppression, or accuracy, because I literally never use it unless I'm in melee range -- the other shot types are nearly double the expected damage per TU.

[Ol' Stinky]

Thinking over it, I also came to realize that it's is nigh impossible to get someone who can fire off two aimed shots or two burst shots in this game. Xenonauts will die, unless you save scum like mad. Getting a unit from 50-60 to 80+ TUs would mean that they're someone who had survived nearly that many battles, which is extremely rare in a game like this, where a single shot can kill a guy.

Smoke grenades are amazingly powerful and will keep the majority of your guys alive. Don't believe the accuracy gauge, because you can have guys stand behind clouds of smoke and hit aliens. As long as you don't send in your best men first, your vets will be fine for typical missions.

The increased damage for individual shots is definitely working as intended, but I find myself *never* using burst shots because I can't reliably suppress anything. Especially now that 2 of the 3 alien types I see most are either extremely resistant or completely immune to suppression altogether.

If I'm close enough for burst fire to be effective, I'm close enough to stun them with a stun rod -- which not only is more effective and safer, it gives me more points for increased funding.

There are a few instances where I'd use burst fire, namely if I'm close, don't have a stun rod or don't want to run out of cover, don't have any grenades or don't want to destroy equipment, if the alien is immune to everything else (looking at you, androns), and probably some others. Overall I think the cost vs. effectiveness is fine as is, but I wouldn't mind seeing just a *slight* buff, in either TU reduction, suppression, or accuracy, because I literally never use it unless I'm in melee range -- the other shot types are nearly double the expected damage per TU.

I think the problem you're seeing isn't so much that burst fire's naff, but that suppression doesn't change per tier. A ballistic LMG suppresses as well as a scatterlaser, plasma caster or MAGstorm. On the other hand, enemy suppression resistance increases: a sebillian non-com or guard has 40 bravery as well as 5 armour, while an elite will have 100 bravery plus 16 armour.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Ol' Stinky

[Rack]

Mathematically in X-Com you should always burst fire if you can afford it. I didn't want that to be the case in Xenonauts, so the cost is higher per shot but the suppression damage is higher per TU than it is for an individual shot but the damage per TU spent is lower than a single shot. Or that's how it should work.

In practise it didn't always work out this way, burst fire meant you had to reload frequently and especially with plasma rounds this could get problematic. It also ran an increased risk of shots going awry and hitting something you didn't want to. Then sometimes the extra damage could be wasted, burst fire was effective if you needed to hit multiple times but if you only needed a single hit a snap shot could be better. And of course a snap shot gave you a nonzero chance of killing the enemy and having enough TU to make an additional action. Sometimes you'd be left with enough AP for 2 snapshots but only 1 autoshot.

It was still the default attack in most situations just because it had the highest damage/ap ratio but if it had comparable damage/ap to other shot types it would have been near useless.

[crusherven]

I seem to remember having 35 rounds per magazine for heavy plasmas (that's 11 bursts, or over 5 rounds of two bursts per round). Reloading was not really an issue, with Cydonia being the only possible exception.

[Rack]

I might be misremembering how several interfaces worked together in the original. Plasma clips held plenty of ammo but I always felt like the clips themselves were scarce. I don't know if conserving shots actually saved clips in the long run or not, but I acted as though it would. Also heavy plasma would blow holes in things I'd rather wish were intact, I auto-fired a Heavy Plasma into an engine room once. But only once.

[MrPyro]

I might be misremembering how several interfaces worked together in the original. Plasma clips held plenty of ammo but I always felt like the clips themselves were scarce. I don't know if conserving shots actually saved clips in the long run or not, but I acted as though it would. Also heavy plasma would blow holes in things I'd rather wish were intact, I auto-fired a Heavy Plasma into an engine room once. But only once.

I found that I normally had plenty of heavy plasma ammo because after a while, pretty much every alien was carrying one into battle. This did allow the option of in-combat reloads as you killed aliens and then looted their bodies for magazines.

[crusherven]

I might be misremembering how several interfaces worked together in the original. Plasma clips held plenty of ammo but I always felt like the clips themselves were scarce. I don't know if conserving shots actually saved clips in the long run or not, but I acted as though it would. Also heavy plasma would blow holes in things I'd rather wish were intact, I auto-fired a Heavy Plasma into an engine room once. But only once.

Ah. Yeah, they could be scarce early on. Even if you only fired one round, the magazine was considered used. Solution was to eject the magazine before the end of combat.