Interesting situation, probably needs a resolution before final release.

[StellarRat]

But Tito, in the OG the Skyraider could be packed with far more ammo and weapons than your troops could possibly carry. Running completely out of ammo was nearly impossible because you could always run back to the Skyraider and get some more or even a specialized piece of equipment if you needed (like a sensor or stun stick.) In this game you can only carry what's on the troops. The aliens don't have any such problems and they did, in fact, run out of ammo in the original game. I killed many that were dry in my day. It wasn't common, but it did happen.

[EchoFourDelta]

It's not exactly handholding if you fill a soldier's inventory, and then expend their loadout on a large crash site or some other mission before hitting up another one. Yeah, suspension of disbelief, and gamey element, but some shit is just absolutely and implausibly stupid.

I hope they don't take that particular aspect out, because it's one of the few things left indicating that the Xenonauts aren't colossal morons, and actually have at least some idea of how to do what they're doing.

As a side note, this is far from being an occasional thing in game design. What's with the tendency to star these super elite troops as your protagonists, and tell the player that they're the absolute best of the best/this organization is the pinnacle of human technology/we're the only ones with the capability to stop X... and then go on to depict them as less capable than someone who couldn't make it through Air Force boot camp. I mean, if you're going to depict them that way, stop telling us they're humanity's elite.

(Granted, I understand that the concept's basically necessary for this particular game, but it's all in writing and depiction. I'm speaking on broad tendencies.)

Edited September 3, 2013 by EchoFourDelta

[Josip Broz Tito]

Good point Stellar, I didn't remember that. I admit when I'm incorrect (which I am in this situation). Adding an inventory to the chinook might be the solution, although we don't really have super-specialized equipment in this game, so auto-reload between missions makes sense.

AI changes will make a huge impact on this down the road. Hopefully, they can make it so the aliens don't waste ammo and can then re-implement active usage of ammo on their part. In fact, they'll have to if they allow aliens to use grenades.

[Ol' Stinky]

As a side note, this is far from being an occasional thing in game design. What's with the tendency to star these super elite troops as your protagonists, and tell the player that they're the absolute best of the best/this organization is the pinnacle of human technology/we're the only ones with the capability to stop X... and then go on to depict them as less capable than someone who couldn't make it through Air Force boot camp. I mean, if you're going to depict them that way, stop telling us they're humanity's elite.

(Granted, I understand that the concept's basically necessary for this particular game, but it's all in writing and depiction. I'm speaking on broad tendencies.)

I always pretend that the funding nations loudly declare that they're giving X-Com the creme de la creme, but in actual fact use it as an excuse to funnel damaged goods, idiots and nutters out of their own forces. I've only ever fired a gun once in my entire life and I wasn't a natural hawkeye, but I managed to not hit anyone 90 degrees from me at the firing range, unlike some alien fighting soldiers I could mention.

[kabill]

I always pretend that the funding nations loudly declare that they're giving X-Com the creme de la creme' date=' but in actual fact use it as an excuse to funnel damaged goods, idiots and nutters out of their own forces. I've only ever fired a gun once in my entire life and I wasn't a natural hawkeye, but I managed to not hit anyone 90 degrees from me at the firing range, unlike [i']some[/i] alien fighting soldiers I could mention.

It's the Cold War. Everyone *says* they're helping defend Earth by contributing large amounts of money along with advanced equipment and the best personnel. What they're *actually* doing is stockpiling nukes and hoarding all their military might for themselves. Sure, the US *could* send elite soldiers with which the Xenonauts defend Moscow from invading aliens. Or instead, they could just watch the news broadcasts watching Muscovites get melted by plasma bolts while some random nobodies they packed off to USSR Central fumble hopelessly with automatic weapons.

[Ol' Stinky]

It's the Cold War. Everyone *says* they're helping defend Earth by contributing large amounts of money along with advanced equipment and the best personnel. What they're *actually* doing is stockpiling nukes and hoarding all their military might for themselves. Sure, the US *could* send elite soldiers with which the Xenonauts defend Moscow from invading aliens. Or instead, they could just watch the news broadcasts watching Muscovites get melted by plasma bolts while some random nobodies they packed off to USSR Central fumble hopelessly with automatic weapons.

Yeah, it seems even more applicable to Xenonauts than it did to the OG. I say "seems" because I'll admit to not having read the actual story behind Xenonauts.

[kabill]

Me neither. I think it's better that way; it means I can never be disappointed that it doesn't conform to my own very specific version of what I would want the story to be like.

[Saskali]

But Tito, in the OG the Skyraider could be packed with far more ammo and weapons than your troops could possibly carry. Running completely out of ammo was nearly impossible because you could always run back to the Skyraider and get some more or even a specialized piece of equipment if you needed (like a sensor or stun stick.) In this game you can only carry what's on the troops. The aliens don't have any such problems and they did, in fact, run out of ammo in the original game. I killed many that were dry in my day. It wasn't common, but it did happen.

Are you sure it was not due to panic. From what i remember troops (aliens and X-com) just hew their weapons on the ground sometimes when they panicked.

[EchoFourDelta]

Are you sure it was not due to panic. From what i remember troops (aliens and X-com) just hew their weapons on the ground sometimes when they panicked.

Yeah, aliens had an inventory just like your own troops. They could load and fire, change weapons, run out of ammo, etc. with anything they had, with one difference: they kept everything in their inventory in the right leg item slot.

[StellarRat]

Are you sure it was not due to panic. From what i remember troops (aliens and X-com) just hew their weapons on the ground sometimes when they panicked.

Yes, that was another way they could end up defenseless. However, they almost always hung on to a grenade or two (which was actually more worrisome.)

[Josip Broz Tito]

TFTD lobstermen had a decent melee attack if you didn't kill them with a thermal lance in one go. Wish sebillians had a melee attack...

[StellarRat]

TFTD lobstermen had a decent melee attack if you didn't kill them with a thermal lance in one go. Wish sebillians had a melee attack...

Actually, I wish the Xenonauts had a melee attack. Currently, as far as I can tell, they are completely defenseless once they run out of ammo unless, of course, they have a stun baton. You'd think they'd carry a knife or bayonet.

[Josip Broz Tito]

Great point. There is a melee function by pressing the 'M' key, but it doesn't seem to do much except with shields.

Might be a great way to add in a knife slot in the inventory, with the ability to upgrade to higher tech melee weapons that can pierce alien armor e.x. plasma stilletto.

[crusherven]

TFTD lobstermen had a decent melee attack if you didn't kill them with a thermal lance in one go. Wish sebillians had a melee attack...

Melee weapons were one of my favorite features of TFTD. Be nice to see that as a feature in Xeno, on both sides.

[StellarRat]

IMO, a Xenonaut should never be totally defenseless and their vehicles probably shouldn't be either. Even if they just have martial arts and a single pistol for the vehicle commander to use in emergency.

[GizmoGomez]

The Xenonauts can melee attack with any weapon (pistol whips are effective against Caesan non-coms. ). I like the idea of giving them a knife.

Maybe when you don't have a weapon equipped the M button would be the knife?

I like the idea of increasing melee damage as your strength goes up and as your tech level increases (being issued better knives, like, alloy knives, plasma knives, lightsabers, etc.)

[StellarRat]

The Xenonauts can melee attack with any weapon (pistol whips are effective against Caesan non-coms. ). I like the idea of giving them a knife.

Maybe when you don't have a weapon equipped the M button would be the knife?

I like the idea of increasing melee damage as your strength goes up and as your tech level increases (being issued better knives, like, alloy knives, plasma knives, lightsabers, etc.)

I wouldn't be opposed to any of that. But the Mark One steel pointy thing would be fine with me too. Just give me something besides a club or my fist.

[Elydo]

I seem to recall aliens in the OGs picking up fallen weapons occasionally as well. Added an element of fear when a panicked alien dropped his own gun, then made a beeline for that disruption launcher you killed the operator of earlier in the mission.

Maybe this just a nightmare I had...

HA! Just had an awesome thought. Different nationalities having different melee animations. Americans having knives, Soviets having a hatchet. Scots apparently all recruited from Glasgow headbutting aliens twice their size to the ground... (I'm not serious about this idea before anyone points out the myriad of flaws with it)

[GizmoGomez]

No no no, the Soviets would use ballistic knifes. Haven't you played Black Ops?

[Elydo]

Give Americans an entrenching tool then, heh. Canucks get a hatchet? Doubles as an emergency maple syrup extraction device.

[EchoFourDelta]

I seem to recall aliens in the OGs picking up fallen weapons occasionally as well. Added an element of fear when a panicked alien dropped his own gun, then made a beeline for that disruption launcher you killed the operator of earlier in the mission.

Maybe this just a nightmare I had...

HA! Just had an awesome thought. Different nationalities having different melee animations. Americans having knives, Soviets having a hatchet. Scots apparently all recruited from Glasgow headbutting aliens twice their size to the ground... (I'm not serious about this idea before anyone points out the myriad of flaws with it)

The aliens in the OG actually couldn't pick up anything; if they were out of ammunition or something, they'd simply wander around. That's one of the few things the AI package couldn't do there. That said, if you edited human weapons into their inventory, they could load/fire them, but doing so could result in bugs when you tried to display and modify their inventory, due to some problems with how the AI forced the aliens to manipulate and place items.

[Josip Broz Tito]

No need for an animation besides the stun baton one IMO. Saves coding time and looks close enough. Also- It would have to be a knife, otherwise it's not upgradeable really.

As aliens get armored up, the weapons will need to utilize plasma to cut through, leaving a piercing weapon as the only realistic option.

Hence, plasma stilleto: would work just like the torpedo's and missiles. Superheat metal and use that to drive a wedge for the energy to follow and dissipate. It'd be a rod that you'd smash one end into the target that would activate a minor energy release driving a bit of metal forward into the target with plasma energy pushing it.

[Dranak]

No no no, the Soviets would use ballistic knifes. Haven't you played Black Ops?

http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/SWORDSPLOSION!!!

[GizmoGomez]

So, do you think that a knife would be an item that'd be worth adding to the game as a stand alone item, or would it be best for the melee attack to be you knifing the alien?

KA-BAR, Alien Alloy Tanto, Plasma Stiletto. How's that sound?

[Elydo]

I'm not certain it needs to be an actual weapon. Just stating they have one and the appropriate research techs upgrade how much damage dealt should be enough.

Though if we do get an image for it, I am so going to want a mod to provide every type of tropey sci-fantasy weapon out there. Heat axes, crowbars, elven knives, those klingon flickblade things, tiny little lightsabers. Sporks. Hell, straight up spoons for any aussies.